Failing for Dahlin / The Official Tank Thread

[Per Sjoblom]

A couple of days ago there was an article in the Swedish daily GT, there was a video interview and an article, they asked if any NHL teams had been in contact with him and he said that the Rangers and the Kings had been in contact with him.

Here a screenshot from that article.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Without Matthews the leaf wouldn’t be that dominant.

Also they accelerate by massing bad contracts with tons of picks, to tell the players, stay injured please.

They also got lucky with Zeitsev, us with Sekac Jerabek weren’t bless

I'm still not sure Zaitsev will good look all that great with his contract in a few years.

 

[yianik]

I think Tanking is not so much of a strategy as it is a logical consequence.

The goal is the Stanley Cup.

If you are not currently a Cup contender then you ask what could make you that ? If you have a pool of prospects on the horizon that could fill out those key positions the big club is missing, fine, you wait.

If you have the assets to get those pieces in a trade, you make trades.

We are not even a play-off team.

We are short at least one, but maybe two, top 6 centres.

We do not have the assets to get an established top centre, let alone two, to help make us a contender.

We have a number one D man, no number 2. a number 3 , shaky no. 4 and bottom pairing D. We do not have the assets to get an established no.2 D man.

We do not have a high quality prospect pool to deliver the needed pieces within the next year or two. A guy like Juulsen could play, but he needs time to develop at the NHL level for example.

We do have big contract aging players in Price, Weber and Patches incoming.

What is the point of having Patches and Weber, and especially Weber who is going through the last few years of what could be his last top level hockey ? What is the point of locking into a long term high cost contract with Patches without having these important pieces coming in ? well, you dont.

Guys like Weber and Patches may get us prospects , draft picks and maybe an established player to acquire the needed core pieces. There will be futures here, with varying degrees of risk.

You look at the Oil. lots of top draft picks. RNH was a no.1 overall but he turned into a pretty good 2C, but not a 1c. Nurse a solid 2nd pair guy they picked 7th OA I believe. Yakupov a 1st overall busted. They nailed it with McDavid . Draisatl, Hall and Eberle, but then squandered away 2 of those assets. As well, the Oil just sat back for years not actively trying to piece together a team, they just waited on their picks.

The Leafs were gifted Matthews, but they also nailed their Marner ( 4th ), Kadri ( 7th ? ) and Nylander ( 8th ) picks. leafs probably need to move Marner or Nylander to get a top D . If they dont, they are in danger of following somewhat in the Oil foot steps.

So the reality is, when you get those high picks your scouting has to pick the right players. If you do, and then properly develop and keep those players then you have something . Pick wrong or trade guys away, then you have years of pain.

GM has to do his job and get the picks needed, scouting has to do its job and be right with most of those picks, then develop and keep the players, trade for what you are missing. Not easy, we know.

Look at Rangers, they traded away a top 6 2 way centre for the 7th overall pick, Along with their own 21 st they drafted two really good centre prospects but while both could bust, chances are they have at least one guy who can be a top 6C, maybe even a 1C. Maybe they connect with both. If they whiff, they are set back, if they connect, then maybe Cup contenders in a couple of years. You have to be willing to take on risk.

So call it whatever, but I dont see what choice we have other than to trade guys and go for picks and youth that have potential in those missing areas, and even at the no.1 D position given Webers age.

I would love to trade for Hanifin because he is currently 2nd pairing but looks like a good bet to be a top pairing D, I would say a number 1. Canes desperately want to make the post season, could be opportunity here. We would have to pay up, maybe Chucky and Gallagher for Hanifin plus could do it.

We need to move old for young and start again. We will be crappy for a couple years, or much longer if drafting fails us.

 

[FrankMTL]

Since 2012:

The Leafs picked:
#5 in 2012
#8 in 2014
#4 in 2015
#1 in 2016

The Habs picked:
#3 in 2012
#9 in 2016 (Turned into #3 in 2013)
Add another top 10 pick for 2018

So after this season, The Habs will only have one top 10 pick less than the Leafs in the last 6 drafts.
Do we realy need 4-5 more years of high drafting to do what the leafs did?

The Leafs traded a 1st round pick + 2nd round pick right in their "rebuild".
Kessel and Phaneuf trade hasn't really pay any dividend so far (Although Kapanen is starting to shine)

The Leafs draft a C with Nylander, a C with Marner, a C with Matthews. They needed a C and got one
The leafs traded 2 picks for a goaltender, cause they needed a goaltender and they got one.

Starting goaltender, Good C, Good top D. Every teams needs that to perform.
Our Bergevin traded for wingers, drafted wingers and sign UFA wingers......but that's not what the team needed.

Habs need to get what they need. It's pretty simple.

The Leafs have had 6 picks in the Top 8 during the last 10 drafts...That's a lot of high picks. Thankfully for them, most of those picks have worked out very well. The only one that didn't was Luke Schenn and they fixed that by getting JVR for him. Kudos to the Leafs scouts for some great picks.

We've had 2 picks in the top 10 during that same period. Galchenyuk has been mishandled but is still a very valuable player and Sergachev will be a very good d-man, so we can't say that our top 10 picks have been bad either.

 

[Per Sjoblom]

By getting Dahlin i mean winning the lottery and getting the 1st OA pick, i don't think anyone would ever trade the pick (if that's what you're implying?).

Maybe the Rangers are tanking? As a Swede I just hope he goes to a place with hockey culture, any Canadian team or one of the classic US teams. The thought of him going to Arizona makes me sick, same with Buffalo, I mean Buffalo couldn't even fill the arena when the US played Sweden in the JWC semi. There were more Canadian fans in Buffalo than US fans,

 

[groovejuice]

Can we once get lucky and ****ing get Dahlin? T.O got Matthews, would only be fair

So if we get lucky and win the lottery, will that be viewed as a strategic success for Bergevin and result in an additional 5 year extension? That's the stuff nightmares are made from.

 

[Milhouse40]

The Leafs also have Kadri (7th in 2009) and JVR (3rd in 2007). And crucially, all of their high picks have panned out.

The Leafs have had 6 picks in the Top 8 during the last 10 drafts...That's a lot of high picks. Thankfully for them, most of those picks have worked out very well. The only one that didn't was Luke Schenn and they fixed that by getting JVR for him. Kudos to the Leafs scouts for some great picks.

We've had 2 picks in the top 10 during that same period. Galchenyuk has been mishandled but is still a very valuable player and Sergachev will be a very good d-man, so we can't say that our top 10 picks have been bad either.

I think we were talking aabout their real rebuild which started in 2012-2013.
But if we got back, high picks or not....we got Subban, Pacioretty and Price.

All i'm saying is it's not like we didn't had high draft picks in the couple of years and the fact that we're so far from a good team is just to show that finish in the bottom for 2-3-4 years might not fix the problem.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I think we were talking aabout their real rebuild which started in 2012-2013.
But if we got back, high picks or not....we got Subban, Pacioretty and Price.

All i'm saying is it's not like we didn't had high draft picks in the couple of years and the fact that we're so far from a good team is just to show that finish in the bottom for 2-3-4 years might not fix the problem.

The Leafs rebuild actually didn't really start in earnest until around 2014 to 2015, which is when Shanahan came in and sold ownership on a rebuild. Prior to that, they were just a lousy team flailing around and getting high picks. Getting high picks and stockpiling futures prior was a function of bad teambuilding.

You're right that finishing low for 2-4 years wont fix the problem. That means doing things that the current Leafs regime has done. Draft well with high picks. Prioritize skill and puck movement on the back end. Explore the European FA market heavily. Use the ability to spend to the cap (for cap dumps) as a trade asset. Sign Vets to become deadline rentals.

There's more to rebuilding than just drafting high. All lousy teams have high draft picks. That's how the draft works.

 

[bobholly39]

Question.

Hypothetical scanerio - we win the lottery and draft Dahlin.

When will he become an impact player for Montreal, realistically? Next season? 2 years? 3+? What's realistic?

 

[uiCk]

We won't because we bout to make the PO's

 

[NotProkofievian]

Question.

Hypothetical scanerio - we win the lottery and draft Dahlin.

When will he become an impact player for Montreal, realistically? Next season? 2 years? 3+? What's realistic?

He would play big minutes in Montreal next season. There would be some lumps. But he would do things that would bring you out of your seat.

 

[HabsForHire]

Question.

Hypothetical scanerio - we win the lottery and draft Dahlin.

When will he become an impact player for Montreal, realistically? Next season? 2 years? 3+? What's realistic?

Next year lol

 

[Captain Mountain]

Question.

Hypothetical scanerio - we win the lottery and draft Dahlin.

When will he become an impact player for Montreal, realistically? Next season? 2 years? 3+? What's realistic?

An important player? next year.

A high end player? At the earliest, probably the 2019-2020 season. a D-man being great right out the gate is basically unheard of. Guys like Doughty, Hedman, etc. needed at least a year. Dahlin looks like a generational talent, but D-men have later primes than forwards for a number of reasons.

 

[Hannibal]

Can't believe some of the guys here still think that playoffs are possible...

 

[TheBuriedHab]

This is probably a 4-5 year rebuild depending on who gets traded out of here, if we avoid busts and make smart trades. If it's botched at all this could be 10 years. Hope you are all ready.

 

[David Suzuki]

This is probably a 4-5 year rebuild depending on who gets traded out of here, if we avoid busts and make smart trades. If it's botched at all this could be 10 years. Hope you are all ready.

reporting for duty soldier

 

[Adriatic]

People really underestimating the Oilers here. Don't count them out just yet, their tank game is second to none.

 

[llamateizer]

Can't believe some of the guys here still think that playoffs are possible...

survey through facebook from JDM (it's not scientific)
[SONDAGE] 5% des amateurs croient que le Canadien participera aux séries

 

[Dannyhab]

We need to trade Patches for RNH.
Then we need to win the lottery and draft Dahlin.
Then we need to sign Tavares.

If we're really being adventurous we also need to trade a bunch of picks for McDonaugh.

 

[sandviper]

So if we get lucky and win the lottery, will that be viewed as a strategic success for Bergevin and result in an additional 5 year extension? That's the stuff nightmares are made from.

It was ALWAYS in the plans. Right from the day he was hired. My advanced degree as a cryptanalyst, which I earned from watching spy movies, uncovered this: https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/canadiens-name-marc-bergevin-as-general-manager-1.804119

I took this job first of all because I KNOW I'm ReAdy," Bergevin said after he was introduced as executive vice-president and GM by team owner/president Geoff Molson on Wednesday.

"If I waSn't ready for this challenge I wouldn't be here today."

"I'M emotional becaUSe it's the Montreal CanaDiens," he said. "I grew up here wAtcHing the Canadiens.

"The Quebec Major Junior Hockey League Is here iN our backyard," he said. "My vision IS to put people in place to make sure we don't miss guys from Quebec.

"THE GOAL is to win, but there are good Quebec players all around the league and we'll do the best we can to not miss them. Right now we have one Quebec scout. We'll have more than one. It's a priority for me. We'll start with that."

It was right there all along.

 

[groovejuice]

It was ALWAYS in the plans. Right from the day he was hired. My advanced degree as a cryptanalyst, which I earned from watching spy movies, uncovered this: https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/canadiens-name-marc-bergevin-as-general-manager-1.804119



It was right there all along.

Thanks for the laugh!!

 

[CoopersFalls]

After Dahlin, Tkachuk is the guy I would like and I do agree he is a fringe center in the NHL. But personally, I would have him play on the wing with Poehling. I would not be upset with Svechnikov or Zadina either. Boqvist is another solid pick but we are already deep with right handed shot defenseman. I think the top 5 are set. The problem with Wahlstrom, Huges, and Kupari is you can't take them ahead of the top 5 IMO as there is a bit of a gap.

Maybe we get the 6th, 7th, or 8th pick and our decision is made for us based on who is left at that point.

Yeah Tkachuk is the kind of guy that wins you playoff series. Maybe not going to be top 20 in league scoring but an all around punishing force.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah Tkachuk is the kind of guy that wins you playoff series. Maybe not going to be top 20 in league scoring but an all around punishing force.

Immediate culture change if can draft Tkachuk. He would fit well with Poehling down the road. I love Zadina as I watch him all year with the Mooseheads but Tkachuk is a guy that makes a huge impact for our soft team up front.

Building around a goalie with a group of soft forwards and no center depth is not a smart plan.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It was ALWAYS in the plans. Right from the day he was hired. My advanced degree as a cryptanalyst, which I earned from watching spy movies, uncovered this: https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/canadiens-name-marc-bergevin-as-general-manager-1.804119



It was right there all along.

At the end... "His sense of humour will help in the meat grinder of being GM in MTL," added Wes Walz.

 

[RealityBytes]

Serious question: remember when Bergevin did Bettman a favour by trading for John Scott so he could be sent to the minors and miss the allstar game? We still never found out wtf that was all about.

How likely is it that the lottery could be rigged to return the favour? I’d say 5%.

Closer to zero percent. The lottery and all steps, including the assigning of the 1000 numbers, the machinery, the 14 balls, and so on are strictly controlled and handled by top external auditors Ernst & Young whose stellar reputation rides on everything being above board. They wouldn't even consider any shenanigans that would sully their $31 billion USD worldwide business. As well, any NHL members involved or as witnesses, or others, don't touch and are only allowed to watch from a distance.