TheStatican
Registered User
- Mar 14, 2012
- 1,602
- 1,255
It was recently suggested in another thread that "it's really hard to have the same role, impact, and performance that you had before" after being traded. This is an idea that seems to be generally accepted on this site. I feel that this is an erroneous and short sighted conclusion and that in reality when all the numbers are calculated more then likely we will see that player production remains more or less consistent.
Below I have listed 85 examples of high scoring players being traded to a new team mid-season and their point production(points, games played & ppg) before and after the trade. By all means this list is not meant to be all inclusive. For certain era's and positions(defense) the point totals are on the lower side but these all these players would still be considered high scoring players relative to their pears in their era.
The list includes nearly every player who finished in the top 20 in league scoring during the year in which they were traded in league history except for a few pre-war years where the final point were in the low 30's. In some cases the sample size is quite low(under 20 games) either before or after the trade. In these cases playoffs production is added, provided their team actually made the playoffs and they played in those games post-trade. If the sample size is too low pre-trade(under 20 games) then the comparison is made to the players production from the previous season.
This post is meant as a general analysis. I'm well aware that in many cases there are good reasons as to why performance increased or decreased. Feel free to discuss those reasons if you wish.
Ryan Johansen 15-16 age 23
26 in 38 0.68
34 in 42 0.81 increased
Drew Stafford 14-15 age 29
24 in 50 0.48
19 in 26 0.73 increased
Martin St. Louis 13-14 age 38
62 in 61 0.98
8 in 19 0.42 playoffs 15 in 25 = 23/44 0.52 decreased
Thomas Vanek 13-14 age 30
9 in 13 0.69 (68 in 78 previous season 0.87)
44 in 47 0.94 increased
Marian Gaborik 12-13 age 31
14 in 22 0.64
16 in 19 0.84 playoffs 22 in 26 = 38/45 0.84 increased
Jeff Carter 11-12 age 27
25 in 39 0.64
9 in 16 0.56 playoffs 13 in 20 = 22/36 0.61 decreased
Marian Gaborik 11-12 age 30
19 in 35 0.54
8 in 12 0.67 playoffs 11 in 20 = 19/32 0.59 increased
James Neal 10-11 age 23
39 in 59 0.66
6 in 20 0.30 playoffs 2 in 7 = 8/27 0.30 decreased
Ilya Kovalchuk 09-10 age 26
58 in 49 1.18
27 in 27 1.00 playoffs 6 in 5 = 33/32 1.03 decreased
Mark Recchi 08-09 age 40
45 in 62 0.73
16 in 18 0.89 playoffs 6 in 11 = 22/29 0.76 increased
Brad Richards 07-08 age 27
51 in 62 0.82
11 in 12 0.92 playoffs 15 in 18 = 26/30 0.87 increased
Marian Hossa 07-08 age 29
56 in 60 0.93
10 in 12 0.83 playoffs 26 in 20 = 36/32 1.13 increased
Joe Thornton 05-06 age 26
33 in 23 1.43
92 in 58 1.59 increased
Jaromir Jagr 03-04 age 31
45 in 46 0.98
29 in 31 0.94 decreased
Steve Sullivan 03-04
43 in 56 0.77
30 in 24 1.25 playoffs 2 in 6 = 32/30 1.07 increased
Robert Lang 03-04 age 33
74 in 63 1.17
5 in 6 0.83 playoffs 9 in 12 = 14/18 0.78 decreased
Daniel Briere 02-03 age 25
46 in 68 0.68
12 in 14 0.86 increased
Alex Kovalev 02-03 age 29
64 in 54 1.19
13 in 23 0.54 decreased
Keith Tkachuk 00-01 age 28
71 in 64 1.11
8 in 12 0.67 playoffs 9 in 15 = 17/27 0.63 decreased
Teemu Selanne 00-01 age 30
59 in 61 0.97
13 in 12 1.08 playoffs 2 in 6 = 15/18 0.83 decreased
Bill Guerin 00-01 age 30
22 in 21 1.05
63 in 64 0.98 decreased
Doug Gilmour 99-00 age 36
56 in 63 0.89
17 in 11 1.55 increased
Glen Murray 99-00 age 29
11 in 9 1.22 (34 in 64 previous season 0.61)
60 in 73 0.82 increased
Alexander Mogilny 99-00 age 30
38 in 47 0.81
6 in 12 0.50 playoffs 7 in 23 = 13/35 0.46 decreased
Steve Sullivan 99-00 age 25
1 in 7 0.14 (65 in 80 previous season 0.81)
64 in 73 0.88 increased
Theoren Fleury 98-99 age 30
69 in 60 1.15
24 in 15 1.60 playoffs 17 in 18 = 41/33 1.24 increased
Mark Recchi 98-99 age 30
47 in 61 0.77
6 in 10 0.60 playoffs 1 in 6 = 7/16 0.44 decreased
Alex Kovalev 98-99 age 25
7 in 14 0.50
46 in 63 0.73 increased
Adam Oates 96-97 age 34
70 in 63 1.11
12 in 17 0.71 decreased
Doug Gilmour 96-97 age 33
60 in 61 0.98
22 in 20 1.10 increased
Miroslav Satan 96-97 age 22
28 in 64 0.44
10 in 12 0.83 increased
Pierre Turgeon 96-97 age 27
11 in 9 1.22
74 in 69 1.07 decreased
Brendan Shanahan 96-97 age 28
1 in 2 0.50 (88 in 81 previous season 1.09)
87 in 79 1.10 increased
Craig Janney 95-96 age 28
62 in 71 0.87
20 in 13 1.54 playoffs 3 in 6 = 23/19 1.21 increased
Wayne Gretzky 95-96 age 35
81 in 62 1.31
21 in 18 1.17 playoffs 16 in 13 = 37/31 1.19 decreased
Teemu Selanne 95-96 age 25
72 in 51 1.41
36 in 28 1.29 decreased
John LeClair 94-95 age 25
5 in 9 0.56
49 in 37 1.32 increased
Pierre Turgeon 94-95 age 25
27 in 34 0.79
20 in 15 1.33 increased
Mark Recchi 94-95 age 26
5 in 10 0.50
43 in 39 1.10 increased
Tony Amonte 93-94 age 23
38 in 72 0.53
4 in 7 0.57 playoffs 6 in 6 = 10/13 0.77 increased
Paul Coffey 92-93 age 31
57 in 50 1.14
30 in 30 1.00 playoffs 11 in 7 = 41/37 1.11 decreased
Doug Weight 92-93 age 22
40 in 65 0.62
8 in 13 0.62
John Cullen 92-93 age 28
9 in 19 0.47
41 in 47 0.87 increased
Mark Recchi 91-92 age 23
70 in 58 1.21
27 in 22 1.23 increased
Adam Oates 91-92 age 29
69 in 54 1.28
30 in 26 1.15 playoffs 19 in 15 = 49/41 1.20 decreased
Paul Coffey 91-92 age 30
64 in 54 1.19
5 in 10 0.50 playoffs 7 in 6 = 12/16 0.75 decreased
Craig Janney 91-92 age 24
51 in 53 0.96
36 in 25 1.44 increased
Doug Gilmour 91-92 age 28
38 in 38 1.00
49 in 40 1.23 increased
Pierre Turgeon 91-92 age 22
8 in 8 1.00
87 in 69 1.23 increased
Ron Francis 90-91 age 27
76 in 67 1.13
11 in 14 0.79 playoffs 17 in 24 = 28/38 0.74 decreased
John Cullen 90-91 age 26
94 in 65 1.45
16 in 13 1.23 playoffs 9 in 6 = 25/19 1.32 decreased
Cliff Ronning 90-91
32 in 48 0.67
12 in 11 1.09 playoffs 9 in 6 = 21/17 1.24 increased
Larry Murphy 90-91 age 29
15 in 31 0.48
28 in 44 0.64 increased
Michel Goulet 89-90 age 29
45 in 57 0.79
5 in 8 0.63 playoffs 6 in 14 = 11/22 0.50 decreased
Bernie Nicholls 89-90 age 28
75 in 47 1.60
37 in 32 1.16 playoffs 12 in 10 49/42 1.17 decreased
Tomas Sandstrom 89-90 age 25
38 in 48 0.79
33 in 28 1.18 increased
Dino Ciccarelli 88-89 age 28
59 in 65 0.91
15 in 11 1.36 playoffs 6 in 6 = 21/17 1.24 increased
Mike Gartner 88-89 age 29
55 in 56 0.98
14 in 13 1.08 playoffs 0 in 5 = 14/18 0.78 decreased
Larry Murphy 88-89 age 27
36 in 65 0.55
10 in 13 0.77 playoffs 2 in 5 = 12/18 0.67 increased
Brett Hull 87-88 age 23
50 in 52 0.96
14 in 13 1.08 playoffs 9 in 10 = 23/23 1.00 increased
Craig Simpson 87-88 age 20
26 in 21 1.24
64 in 59 1.08 decreased
Marcel Dionne 86-87 age 35
74 in 67 1.10
10 in 14 0.71 playoffs 2 in 6 = 12/20 0.60 decreased
Joe Mullen 85-86 age 28
52 in 48 1.08
38 in 29 1.31 increased
Butch Goring 79-80 age 30
68 in 69 0.99
11 in 12 0.92 playoffs 19 in 21 = 30/33 0.91 decreased
Dennis Maruk
0 in 2 0.00 (71 in 76 previous year 0.93)
90 in 76 1.18 increased
Jean Ratelle 75-76 age 35
15 in 13 1.15
90 in 67 1.34 increased
Phil Esposito 75-76 age 33
16 in 12 1.33
67 in 62 1.08 decreased
Norm Ullman 67-68 age 32
55 in 58 0.95
17 in 13 1.31 increased
Frank Mahovlich 67-68 age 30
36 in 50 0.72
16 in 13 1.23 increased
Dean Prentice 65-66 age 33
29 in 50 0.58
15 in 19 0.79 playoffs 10 in 12 = 25/31 0.81 increased
Andy Bathgate 63-64 age 31
59 in 56 1.05
18 in 15 1.20 playoffs 9 in 14 = 27/29 0.93 decreased
Don McKenney 62-63 age 28
33 in 41 0.80
24 in 21 1.14 increased
Dean Prentice 62-63 age 30
38 in 49 0.78
15 in 19 0.79 increased
Vic Stasiuk 60-61 age 31
30 in 46 0.65
23 in 23 1.00 increased
Ed Litzenberger 54-55 age 22
11 in 29 0.38
40 in 44 0.91 increased
Bert Olmstead 50-51 age 24
3 in 15 0.20
38 in 39 0.97 increased
Jim Conacher 48-49 age 27
1 in 4 0.25 (40 in 60 previous year 0.67)
48 in 55 0.87 increased
Bud Poile 48-49 age 24
0 in 4 0.00 (52 in 54 previous year 0.96)
42 in 56 0.75 decreased
Gaye Stewart 47-48
1 in 7 0.14 (56 in 61 previous year 0.92)
55 in 54 1.02 increased
Max Bentley 47-48
6 in 6 1.00 (54 in 59 previous year 0.92)
48 in 53 0.91decreased
Grant Warwick 47-48 age 26
29 in 40 0.73
11 in 18 0.61 playoffs 3 in 5 = 14/23 0.61 decreased
Adam Brown 46-47 age 26
13 in 22 0.59
36 in 42 0.86 increased
Syd Howe 34-35 age 23
27 in 36 0.75
20 in 14 1.43 increased
Cooney Weiland 33-34 age 29
2 in 9 0.22 (27 in 48 previous year 0.67)
30 in 39 0.77 increased
Frank Fredrickson 26-27 age 31
10 in 16 0.63
21 in 28 0.75 increased
Babe Dye 20-21 age 22
2 in 1 2.00 (14 in 23 previous year 0.61)
38 in 23 1.65 increased
In the examples cited above point production actually increased in 52 out of 85 cases.
More importantly the total number of points scored pre-trade was 3136 in 3492 games = 0.898ppg.
Meanwhile the post trade the totals are 2527 in 2514 games = 1.005ppg
I think it's fair to conclude that based on this information the general idea that higher scoring players will struggle post-trade is a false narrative.
Below I have listed 85 examples of high scoring players being traded to a new team mid-season and their point production(points, games played & ppg) before and after the trade. By all means this list is not meant to be all inclusive. For certain era's and positions(defense) the point totals are on the lower side but these all these players would still be considered high scoring players relative to their pears in their era.
The list includes nearly every player who finished in the top 20 in league scoring during the year in which they were traded in league history except for a few pre-war years where the final point were in the low 30's. In some cases the sample size is quite low(under 20 games) either before or after the trade. In these cases playoffs production is added, provided their team actually made the playoffs and they played in those games post-trade. If the sample size is too low pre-trade(under 20 games) then the comparison is made to the players production from the previous season.
This post is meant as a general analysis. I'm well aware that in many cases there are good reasons as to why performance increased or decreased. Feel free to discuss those reasons if you wish.
Ryan Johansen 15-16 age 23
26 in 38 0.68
34 in 42 0.81 increased
Drew Stafford 14-15 age 29
24 in 50 0.48
19 in 26 0.73 increased
Martin St. Louis 13-14 age 38
62 in 61 0.98
8 in 19 0.42 playoffs 15 in 25 = 23/44 0.52 decreased
Thomas Vanek 13-14 age 30
9 in 13 0.69 (68 in 78 previous season 0.87)
44 in 47 0.94 increased
Marian Gaborik 12-13 age 31
14 in 22 0.64
16 in 19 0.84 playoffs 22 in 26 = 38/45 0.84 increased
Jeff Carter 11-12 age 27
25 in 39 0.64
9 in 16 0.56 playoffs 13 in 20 = 22/36 0.61 decreased
Marian Gaborik 11-12 age 30
19 in 35 0.54
8 in 12 0.67 playoffs 11 in 20 = 19/32 0.59 increased
James Neal 10-11 age 23
39 in 59 0.66
6 in 20 0.30 playoffs 2 in 7 = 8/27 0.30 decreased
Ilya Kovalchuk 09-10 age 26
58 in 49 1.18
27 in 27 1.00 playoffs 6 in 5 = 33/32 1.03 decreased
Mark Recchi 08-09 age 40
45 in 62 0.73
16 in 18 0.89 playoffs 6 in 11 = 22/29 0.76 increased
Brad Richards 07-08 age 27
51 in 62 0.82
11 in 12 0.92 playoffs 15 in 18 = 26/30 0.87 increased
Marian Hossa 07-08 age 29
56 in 60 0.93
10 in 12 0.83 playoffs 26 in 20 = 36/32 1.13 increased
Joe Thornton 05-06 age 26
33 in 23 1.43
92 in 58 1.59 increased
Jaromir Jagr 03-04 age 31
45 in 46 0.98
29 in 31 0.94 decreased
Steve Sullivan 03-04
43 in 56 0.77
30 in 24 1.25 playoffs 2 in 6 = 32/30 1.07 increased
Robert Lang 03-04 age 33
74 in 63 1.17
5 in 6 0.83 playoffs 9 in 12 = 14/18 0.78 decreased
Daniel Briere 02-03 age 25
46 in 68 0.68
12 in 14 0.86 increased
Alex Kovalev 02-03 age 29
64 in 54 1.19
13 in 23 0.54 decreased
Keith Tkachuk 00-01 age 28
71 in 64 1.11
8 in 12 0.67 playoffs 9 in 15 = 17/27 0.63 decreased
Teemu Selanne 00-01 age 30
59 in 61 0.97
13 in 12 1.08 playoffs 2 in 6 = 15/18 0.83 decreased
Bill Guerin 00-01 age 30
22 in 21 1.05
63 in 64 0.98 decreased
Doug Gilmour 99-00 age 36
56 in 63 0.89
17 in 11 1.55 increased
Glen Murray 99-00 age 29
11 in 9 1.22 (34 in 64 previous season 0.61)
60 in 73 0.82 increased
Alexander Mogilny 99-00 age 30
38 in 47 0.81
6 in 12 0.50 playoffs 7 in 23 = 13/35 0.46 decreased
Steve Sullivan 99-00 age 25
1 in 7 0.14 (65 in 80 previous season 0.81)
64 in 73 0.88 increased
Theoren Fleury 98-99 age 30
69 in 60 1.15
24 in 15 1.60 playoffs 17 in 18 = 41/33 1.24 increased
Mark Recchi 98-99 age 30
47 in 61 0.77
6 in 10 0.60 playoffs 1 in 6 = 7/16 0.44 decreased
Alex Kovalev 98-99 age 25
7 in 14 0.50
46 in 63 0.73 increased
Adam Oates 96-97 age 34
70 in 63 1.11
12 in 17 0.71 decreased
Doug Gilmour 96-97 age 33
60 in 61 0.98
22 in 20 1.10 increased
Miroslav Satan 96-97 age 22
28 in 64 0.44
10 in 12 0.83 increased
Pierre Turgeon 96-97 age 27
11 in 9 1.22
74 in 69 1.07 decreased
Brendan Shanahan 96-97 age 28
1 in 2 0.50 (88 in 81 previous season 1.09)
87 in 79 1.10 increased
Craig Janney 95-96 age 28
62 in 71 0.87
20 in 13 1.54 playoffs 3 in 6 = 23/19 1.21 increased
Wayne Gretzky 95-96 age 35
81 in 62 1.31
21 in 18 1.17 playoffs 16 in 13 = 37/31 1.19 decreased
Teemu Selanne 95-96 age 25
72 in 51 1.41
36 in 28 1.29 decreased
John LeClair 94-95 age 25
5 in 9 0.56
49 in 37 1.32 increased
Pierre Turgeon 94-95 age 25
27 in 34 0.79
20 in 15 1.33 increased
Mark Recchi 94-95 age 26
5 in 10 0.50
43 in 39 1.10 increased
Tony Amonte 93-94 age 23
38 in 72 0.53
4 in 7 0.57 playoffs 6 in 6 = 10/13 0.77 increased
Paul Coffey 92-93 age 31
57 in 50 1.14
30 in 30 1.00 playoffs 11 in 7 = 41/37 1.11 decreased
Doug Weight 92-93 age 22
40 in 65 0.62
8 in 13 0.62
John Cullen 92-93 age 28
9 in 19 0.47
41 in 47 0.87 increased
Mark Recchi 91-92 age 23
70 in 58 1.21
27 in 22 1.23 increased
Adam Oates 91-92 age 29
69 in 54 1.28
30 in 26 1.15 playoffs 19 in 15 = 49/41 1.20 decreased
Paul Coffey 91-92 age 30
64 in 54 1.19
5 in 10 0.50 playoffs 7 in 6 = 12/16 0.75 decreased
Craig Janney 91-92 age 24
51 in 53 0.96
36 in 25 1.44 increased
Doug Gilmour 91-92 age 28
38 in 38 1.00
49 in 40 1.23 increased
Pierre Turgeon 91-92 age 22
8 in 8 1.00
87 in 69 1.23 increased
Ron Francis 90-91 age 27
76 in 67 1.13
11 in 14 0.79 playoffs 17 in 24 = 28/38 0.74 decreased
John Cullen 90-91 age 26
94 in 65 1.45
16 in 13 1.23 playoffs 9 in 6 = 25/19 1.32 decreased
Cliff Ronning 90-91
32 in 48 0.67
12 in 11 1.09 playoffs 9 in 6 = 21/17 1.24 increased
Larry Murphy 90-91 age 29
15 in 31 0.48
28 in 44 0.64 increased
Michel Goulet 89-90 age 29
45 in 57 0.79
5 in 8 0.63 playoffs 6 in 14 = 11/22 0.50 decreased
Bernie Nicholls 89-90 age 28
75 in 47 1.60
37 in 32 1.16 playoffs 12 in 10 49/42 1.17 decreased
Tomas Sandstrom 89-90 age 25
38 in 48 0.79
33 in 28 1.18 increased
Dino Ciccarelli 88-89 age 28
59 in 65 0.91
15 in 11 1.36 playoffs 6 in 6 = 21/17 1.24 increased
Mike Gartner 88-89 age 29
55 in 56 0.98
14 in 13 1.08 playoffs 0 in 5 = 14/18 0.78 decreased
Larry Murphy 88-89 age 27
36 in 65 0.55
10 in 13 0.77 playoffs 2 in 5 = 12/18 0.67 increased
Brett Hull 87-88 age 23
50 in 52 0.96
14 in 13 1.08 playoffs 9 in 10 = 23/23 1.00 increased
Craig Simpson 87-88 age 20
26 in 21 1.24
64 in 59 1.08 decreased
Marcel Dionne 86-87 age 35
74 in 67 1.10
10 in 14 0.71 playoffs 2 in 6 = 12/20 0.60 decreased
Joe Mullen 85-86 age 28
52 in 48 1.08
38 in 29 1.31 increased
Butch Goring 79-80 age 30
68 in 69 0.99
11 in 12 0.92 playoffs 19 in 21 = 30/33 0.91 decreased
Dennis Maruk
0 in 2 0.00 (71 in 76 previous year 0.93)
90 in 76 1.18 increased
Jean Ratelle 75-76 age 35
15 in 13 1.15
90 in 67 1.34 increased
Phil Esposito 75-76 age 33
16 in 12 1.33
67 in 62 1.08 decreased
Norm Ullman 67-68 age 32
55 in 58 0.95
17 in 13 1.31 increased
Frank Mahovlich 67-68 age 30
36 in 50 0.72
16 in 13 1.23 increased
Dean Prentice 65-66 age 33
29 in 50 0.58
15 in 19 0.79 playoffs 10 in 12 = 25/31 0.81 increased
Andy Bathgate 63-64 age 31
59 in 56 1.05
18 in 15 1.20 playoffs 9 in 14 = 27/29 0.93 decreased
Don McKenney 62-63 age 28
33 in 41 0.80
24 in 21 1.14 increased
Dean Prentice 62-63 age 30
38 in 49 0.78
15 in 19 0.79 increased
Vic Stasiuk 60-61 age 31
30 in 46 0.65
23 in 23 1.00 increased
Ed Litzenberger 54-55 age 22
11 in 29 0.38
40 in 44 0.91 increased
Bert Olmstead 50-51 age 24
3 in 15 0.20
38 in 39 0.97 increased
Jim Conacher 48-49 age 27
1 in 4 0.25 (40 in 60 previous year 0.67)
48 in 55 0.87 increased
Bud Poile 48-49 age 24
0 in 4 0.00 (52 in 54 previous year 0.96)
42 in 56 0.75 decreased
Gaye Stewart 47-48
1 in 7 0.14 (56 in 61 previous year 0.92)
55 in 54 1.02 increased
Max Bentley 47-48
6 in 6 1.00 (54 in 59 previous year 0.92)
48 in 53 0.91decreased
Grant Warwick 47-48 age 26
29 in 40 0.73
11 in 18 0.61 playoffs 3 in 5 = 14/23 0.61 decreased
Adam Brown 46-47 age 26
13 in 22 0.59
36 in 42 0.86 increased
Syd Howe 34-35 age 23
27 in 36 0.75
20 in 14 1.43 increased
Cooney Weiland 33-34 age 29
2 in 9 0.22 (27 in 48 previous year 0.67)
30 in 39 0.77 increased
Frank Fredrickson 26-27 age 31
10 in 16 0.63
21 in 28 0.75 increased
Babe Dye 20-21 age 22
2 in 1 2.00 (14 in 23 previous year 0.61)
38 in 23 1.65 increased
In the examples cited above point production actually increased in 52 out of 85 cases.
More importantly the total number of points scored pre-trade was 3136 in 3492 games = 0.898ppg.
Meanwhile the post trade the totals are 2527 in 2514 games = 1.005ppg
I think it's fair to conclude that based on this information the general idea that higher scoring players will struggle post-trade is a false narrative.