Speculation: Facing cap issues after this year; who stays -- Buff or Wheeler?

Who stays: Buff or Wheels?

  • prefer to keep Buff

    Votes: 4 3.5%
  • perfer to keep Wheeler

    Votes: 83 73.5%
  • Lets keep both and make some real hard choices elsewhere

    Votes: 26 23.0%

  • Total voters
    113

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
37,630
10,440
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You see Aavco - a couple of posts back I said, Toews and Kane were making 12.5 mil each and taking up about 1/3 of the Hawks cap space. I wasn't exactly right, but closer than you who "corrected me" saying they made only $ 10.5 mil each. Well if this list is right, we're both wrong and "both way over paid" at $ 13.8 mil

Why is Connor Mc David not on this list ??? - maybe last years list ???

McDavid is still on his ELC.

$10.5 is cap hit not salary which often fluctuates on long term contracts. When talking about percentage of the cap you need to deal with cap hits. But when talking about how much a player is making in any given year you need to talk about salary instead.
 

GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
9,140
12,769
Winnipeg
McDavid is still on his ELC.

$10.5 is cap hit not salary which often fluctuates on long term contracts. When talking about percentage of the cap you need to deal with cap hits. But when talking about how much a player is making in any given year you need to talk about salary instead.
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What ???? C'mon now Aavco - if 2 guys are receiving about $ 13 mil each in "annual salary" --that's simply $ 26 mil that year on the cap hit. Admit when your wrong.:dunno:
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
37,630
10,440
________________________________________________________

What ???? C'mon now Aavco - if 2 guys are receiving about $ 13 mil each in "annual salary" --that's simply $ 26 mil that year on the cap hit. Admit when your wrong.:dunno:

Are you serious? You really need to educate yourself. The Cap hit is always based on AAV which stands for average annual value. The actual salary they earn in any given year is irrelevant to the salary cap.

This is the Kane/Toews contract

$13.8 (cap hit $10.5)
$13.8 (cap hit $10.5)
$13.8 (cap hit $10.5)
$12.0 (cap hit $10.5)
$9.8 (cap hit $10.5)
$7.0 (cap hit $10.5)
$6.9 (cap hit $10.5)
$6.9 (cap hit $10.5)

Patrick Kane - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
 

GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
9,140
12,769
Winnipeg
Are you serious? You really need to educate yourself. The Cap hit is always based on AAV which stands for average annual value. The actual salary they earn in any given year is irrelevant to the salary cap.

This is the Kane/Toews contract

$13.8 (cap hit $10.5)
$13.8 (cap hit $10.5)
$13.8 (cap hit $10.5)
$12.0 (cap hit $10.5)
$9.8 (cap hit $10.5)
$7.0 (cap hit $10.5)
$6.9 (cap hit $10.5)
$6.9 (cap hit $10.5)

Patrick Kane - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
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Well, I see they staggered these 2 players salaries. I did not think they did that with Star players. In this case, you would be right, if these figures are correct. They must have been squeezed for cap space in the first 3 years of these contracts, or they just would have went $ 10.5 mil over 8 years.

Yes, if this is the case, you would be right on the "money."

So the NHL allows teams to "income average" ( AAV) and the amount dispersed in a given year is really "irrelevant"--it's the income average per year of that contract is what counts against the Cap.
 
Last edited:

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
37,630
10,440
_____________________________________________________

Well, I see they staggered these 2 players salaries. I did not think they did that with Star players. In this case, you would be right, if these figures are correct. They must have been squeezed for cap space in the first 3 years of these contracts, or they just would have went $ 10.5 mil over 8 years.

Yes, if this is the case, you would be right on the "money."

So the NHL allows teams to "income average" ( AAV) and the amount dispersed in a given year is really "irrelevant"--it's the income average per year of that contract is what counts against the Cap.

Only star players get contracts like this. It's called front loading. It has nothing to do with being squeezed as the cap hit is exactly the same as if they gave them $10.5 in each of the 8 years. It has to do with giving the players more money earlier in the contract. If they are wise and invest it then they are better off financially
 

Lempo

Future Considerations Truther
Sponsor
Feb 23, 2014
26,669
83,004
_____________________________________________________

Well, I see they staggered these 2 players salaries. I did not think they did that with Star players. In this case, you would be right, if these figures are correct. They must have been squeezed for cap space in the first 3 years of these contracts, or they just would have went $ 10.5 mil over 8 years.

Yes, if this is the case, you would be right on the "money."

So the NHL allows teams to "income average" ( AAV) and the amount dispersed in a given year is really "irrelevant"--it's the income average per year of that contract is what counts against the Cap.

It's not so much that "NHL allows it" as the CBA demands and mandates it and the AAV is the only option available to anyone.

If the teams could themselves have the say on how their players' salaries would count against each year's cap, there would be endless shenanigans to circumvent the cap and cup run teams that are stacked with superstars on cheap contracts for that particular year, after which the contracts would be traded to rebuild teams whose cap space would afford to pay the superstars enormously on some another year.
 
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GNP

Here Comes the Jets -look out hockey world !!!
Oct 11, 2016
9,140
12,769
Winnipeg
It's not so much that "NHL allows it" as the CBA demands and mandates it and the AAV is the only option available to anyone.

If the teams could themselves have the say on how their players' salaries would count against each year's cap, there would be endless shenanigans to circumvent the cap and cup run teams that are stacked with superstars on cheap contracts for that particular year, after which the contracts would be traded to rebuild teams whose cap space would afford to pay the superstars enormously on some another year.
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Yes Lempo -- I think you are very right on this point, and having the AAV formula works to keep the teams honest. As you say, if it were not there, there would be endless shenanigans to "circumvent the cap." agreed----good post.
 

KingBogo

Admitted Homer
Nov 29, 2011
31,529
38,962
Winnipeg
Here is my two year cap projections:

20192020Estimated a 2.5% cap increase
Cap Ceiling 80,000 82,000
Forwards
Scheifele 6,130 6,130
Wheeler 5,600 7,500
Little 5,290 5,290
Perrault 4,130 4,130
Lowry 3,000 3,000
Copp 1,000 1,500
Laine 925 7,500
Armia 2,000 2,000
Connor 925 3,000
Ehlers 6,000 6,000
Roslovic 894 894
Tanev 850 850
Lemieux 839 1,000
Depth 1 800 800
Forward Total38,38349,594
Defense
Buff 7,600 7,600
Trouba 6,000 6,000
Morrissey 5,400 5,400
Kulikov 4,330 4,330
Toby 2,500 -
Poolman 1,300 1,300
Chariot 1,400
Niku 775
Depth 1,000
Defense total 28,530 26,405
Goalie
Helle 4,250 4,250
Mason 4,100 -
Comrie 800
Goalie total 8,350 5,050
Bonuses and BO
Rookie 3,500 500
Stuart BO 582
Bonuses and BO Total 4,082 500
Total Cap allocated 79,345 81,549
Cap space remaining 655451
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Assumptions:
  • Trouba is willing to stay and signs a 5 year $30 million deal
  • Myers is traded sometime this coming summer for a 1st round pick and a prospect
  • Toby is brought back on a 1 year 2.5 million deal in order to act as a full time mentor for Poolman who will be on the team full time.
  • Lemieux and Roslovic make the team full time starting next season
  • My philosophy with depth players (Even very useful ones) is to go short term on their deals. If that means Armia or Copp walk as UFA when eligible then that is a risk I am willing to take as we will have Roslovic, Vasalinen, Foley, Lemieux, Appelton, Spacek etc waiting in the wings to take those spots.
Let me know your thoughts.

Edit:
As an aside it hasn't been that hard to fit people in, I think Chevy and his staff have done a fantastic job of managing the cap and staggering contracts.
This is a pretty good guess taking in all considerations. I think Chevy can squeeze everything in but it will be real tight. Where I'm concerned is that each of Trouba, Morrissey, Helly & Lowry might be a touch low in your estimation. Not a lot but enough to push over the estimated cap. But over all great estimate.
 

KingBogo

Admitted Homer
Nov 29, 2011
31,529
38,962
Winnipeg
I really think a Morrissey bridge is a mistake. Take the opportunity to lock him up at something in the low 5’s for 7 or 8 years, IMO. He just strikes me as a cerebral player who will continue to improve and the comparables for him are really cap-friendly at this time.

Then you’ve got 3 young steals locked up long term with him, Scheifele, and Ehlers.

Obviously the to bridge or not to bridge debate comes down to a gamble on future progression.
Agreed with this. Signing Morrissey long term is the right way to go. The market is pretty well set for good young D-man coming off their ELC's who haven't fully established themselves. It tightens things up now, but long term it will help to keep other players. If we had bridged Scheif you are easy looking $8.5 AAV starting next season.
 

Jet

Free Capo!
Jul 20, 2004
33,043
31,512
Florida
I think he recognizes he doesn't need to play that way anymore, takes less chances.
Sure, but the question that needs to be answered HONESTLY is: Does Buff play a 7.5MM game?

IF he can get better defensively and more consistently physical I think you can make the case but as it stands, today, I say no.

He was absolutely atrocious in that Ducks series - maybe he makes his money in the playoffs this year? I am very curious to see how he will play come post season.
 

Jet

Free Capo!
Jul 20, 2004
33,043
31,512
Florida
Being the most expensive player on the team has nohing to do with whether he plays a significant role or not. He does and you'd have to be blind not to see that , he's a top 2 D man for them.

You don't like the way he plays, fair enough, that has nothing to do with his significance. His salary being an anchor around the Jets necks is greatly exaggerated.
Another Mod!!! Congrats!

Now you are going to have to be nicer :D :P
 
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surixon

Registered User
Jul 12, 2003
48,728
69,079
Winnipeg
This is a pretty good guess taking in all considerations. I think Chevy can squeeze everything in but it will be real tight. Where I'm concerned is that each of Trouba, Morrissey, Helly & Lowry might be a touch low in your estimation. Not a lot but enough to push over the estimated cap. But over all great estimate.

Thanks for the response. Yeah it isn't super easy to come up with individual projections especially for Trouba, Helle and even Lowry. I think I put Morrissey at the top end of what he should be expecting based on what other young dmen have signed for. Goalie contracts seem to be all over the map so I have no idea what Helle will get. I used the Allen deal as a template.

As you stated if some of those players get a bit more than Chevy may have to get creative. Moving Mason for a cheaper backup may need to be considered as well as bringing in a cheaper veteran dmen. It should be an interesting summer. If I where Chevy I would like one more marquee deal inked before the off season (I have a sneaky suspicion we see one of Helle, Morrissey or Lowry inked in the next month)
 

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