European Goalies

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
20,020
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Lake Memphremagog, QC.
The Journal de Montreal is running a series of articles about goaltending, mainly in Quebec but touching other regions and countries as well. Francois Allaire offered some interesting comments about Swedish goaltending over the course of 20+ years. Original excerpt in French with translation:

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«Lors de mon premier séjour en Suède, chaque fois que j’essayais d’enseigner une technique, l’entraîneur des gardiens de l'équipe nationale me disait: “Non, non. Ça ne se peut pas. On ne fait pas ça, ici.” J’ai vu là des choses totalement dépassées», se souvient Allaire, propriétaire d’une école de hockey pour gardiens dans ce pays depuis une vingtaine d’années.

En contrepartie, l’ancien entraîneur des gardiens du Canadien, des Mighty Ducks et des Maple Leafs se souvient que l’entraînement des *Suédois était énormément axé sur les habiletés physiques.

« Le fait de mettre l’accent sur leur condition physique en faisait des *gardiens très athlétiques.
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Translation

During my first visit to Sweden, whenever I tried to teach a technique, the national team coach would tell me "No, no, that is not possible, we do not do that here." I saw many things that were outdated, recalls Allaire owner of a hockey school for over 20 years.

On the other hand, the former goaltending coach of the Canadiens, Mighty Ducks and Leafs recalls that the Swedish practices were heavily concentrated on physical conditioning.

This emphasis on physical conditioning produced some very athletic goaltenders.
________________________________________________________

Link to the complete article:

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2012/11/03/il-faut-rattraper-le-Pejorative Slur

Comments

Recently the Swedish goaltenders - Lundqvist, etc have shown that the ideas of Francois Allaire did make an impact in Sweden.

However the Swedish and other European goaltenders still lag in terms of puckhandling and communications with teammates.
 
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Bear of Bad News

Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
Sep 27, 2005
13,544
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I'm still having trouble with the link, but I'm looking forward to checking this one out.
 

Say Hey Kid

Whole cell block was dancing to the jailhouse rock
Dec 10, 2007
23,943
5,700
ATL
I think these are interesting posts and a good chart:

Gaps intentional

1. Dominik Hasek (duh)

2. Miikka Kiprusoff (fantastic 3-4 year peak, top 10 goalie every season. Vezina + Cup run)
3. Olaf Kolzig (the backbone of a great defensive team in Washington. Vezina + Cup run)

4. Nikolai Khabibulin (no regular season hardware, but among the top 5 goalies in the league for several years. Excellent in the playoffs).
5. Evgeni Nabokov (Great regular seasons, questionable playoffs).
6. Arturs Irbe (inconsistent, but capable of stealing series when he was on)
7. Henrik Lundqvist (Will move up on the list in a few years. Hard to rank. Better Vezina record already than Bulin and Irbe).
8. Tomas Vokoun (great save % in Nashville and Florida, no regular season awards and no postseason success).
9. Roman Cechmanek (fantastic 3 year stretch in the regular season. Exposed in the playoffs).
10. Ilya Bryzgalov is probably 10th. Is there anyone better?


(I had written this before ushvinder reminded me of CechmanekL 10. There has to be a better pick than Halak for 10th. Christobal Huet has had a better career to this point, but there has to be someone better, right?)

The following table is sorted by wins, the top five among these goalies in wins, SV%, GAA and SO are bolded.

Player |From |To |GP |W |L |SV% |GAA |SO
Dominik Hasek |1991 |2008 |735 | 389 |223 | .922 | 2.20 | 81
Nikolai Khabibulin |1995 |2010 |696 | 306 |276 |.908 |2.68 | 41
Olaf Kölzig |1990 |2009 |719 | 303 |297 |.906 |2.71 |35
Evgeni Nabokov |2000 |2010 |563 | 293 |178 |.912 | 2.39 | 50
Tomas Vokoun |1997 |2010 |575 | 240 |239 | .916 |2.56 | 38
Miikka Kiprusoff |2001 |2010 |458 |239 |153 | .914 |2.44 |34
Arturs Irbe |1992 |2004 |568 |218 |236 |.899 |2.83 |33
Tommy Salo |1995 |2004 |526 |210 |225 |.905 |2.55 | 37
Henrik Lundqvist |2006 |2010 |338 |177 |110 | .918 | 2.33 |24
Roman Turek |1997 |2004 |328 |159 |115 |.907 | 2.31 |27
Cristobal Huet |2003 |2010 |272 |129 |90 |.913 |2.46 |24
Vesa Toskala |2002 |2010 |266 |129 |82 |.902 |2.76 |13
Johan Hedberg |2001 |2010 |293 |123 |114 |.900 |2.93 |14
Ilya Bryzgalov |2002 |2010 |258 |120 |96 | .914 |2.55 |16
Niklas Bäckström |2007 |2010 |230 |119 |68 | .918 | 2.37 |19

So for 1-8 I agree with TheDevilMadeMe, then...

9. Tommy Salo
10. Niklas Bäckström

Looking through Vezina voting in recent years tells me Niklas was sixth in 06-07 and 07-08 and third in 08-09. For me that trumps Bryzgalov's second place this past season.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
4,146
Is Kolzig really considered a European goalie? I mean, he was born in South Africa (can't remember if it was him or Robyn Regehr that were born there because his parents were missionaries) and then grows up in Canada. Officially he plays for Germany in major tournaments basically because he was eligible and always not good enough to compete with the elite Canadian goalies.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

Registered User
May 3, 2007
16,414
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38° N 77° W
His parents are German, so Kolzig is German by definition, but he is a product of Canadian junior hockey so he is a European goalie while at the same he's not really relevant to the discussion of European hockey.
 

Moridin

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
284
159
Having only played 157 games, I suppose there just aren't enough stats to go on to make a fair comparison. He took home the Vezina in 1985 with 40 wins, but that was his only standout year.

Still ahead than everyone not named Hasek, lundqvist or kiprusoff.

He was the best goalie in the NHL once, and had 2 good seasons before it, and a really good playoff.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
4,146
Still ahead than everyone not named Hasek, lundqvist or kiprusoff.

He was the best goalie in the NHL once, and had 2 good seasons before it, and a really good playoff.

Well yes, but then after that an ill-advised decision to drive a vehicle, sadly. He just doesn't have the staying power that can even overtake a Khabibulin who was a Cup champ with nice longevity
 

Buck Aki Berg

Done with this place
Sep 17, 2008
17,325
8
Ottawa, ON
Still ahead than everyone not named Hasek, lundqvist or kiprusoff.

He was the best goalie in the NHL once, and had 2 good seasons before it, and a really good playoff.

Jim Carrey was once the best goalie in the NHL and had a couple of good seasons before it. Nobody's saying he ranks higher than Richter among American goalies, because Carrey never tripled the legal limit and tried to drive home, thus living long enough to be solved by his opponents. We don't know if Lindbergh would have stayed that high a caliber goalie for years to come, and we can't just assume that he would have. He has himself to blame for not being widely considered an all-time great.

157 games just isn't a big enough sample size to determine his rank among goalies who have played 5-6 times as many games.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,542
4,945
Jim Carrey was once the best goalie in the NHL and had a couple of good seasons before it...

Not saying Lindbergh should be among the Top 5, but...

1) unlike Jim Carey (Jim Carrey is a different matter) he has a good non-NHL resume (best WJC goaltender 78, Swedish All-Star 79 and 80) that deserves to be taken into account.
2) unlike Jim Carey he doesn't have a weak playoff resume right during his peak.

Factors to be considered. Other than that, I agree with what you say. Lindbergh could have been Top 5, but he only has himself to blame, sadly.
 

Ohashi_Jouzu*

Registered User
Apr 2, 2007
30,332
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Halifax
Having only played 157 games, I suppose there just aren't enough stats to go on to make a fair comparison. He took home the Vezina in 1985 with 40 wins, but that was his only standout year.

Maybe his only standout year statistically, or in terms of NHL awards, but he got plenty of attention in his rookie year, too, for his great play, and was rookie of the year AND MVP in the AHL before that. Olympic bronze medalist before that, I think. AND he was the best goaltender in the WJC20s before THAT, come to think of it. So yeah, he hardly came out of nowhere, or fluked a good season, or whatever.

edit: Having checked, he was also voted as the top Swede in the NHL in '82/83... his rookie year. Mats Naslund had made his NHL debut by that point, and Kent Nilsson was a 100 point scorer that year, to give you some perspective on that one.
 
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