European Expansion for NHL

[puck57]

I think more than anything, the leagues, and the Franchises that exist in Europe, need to step up to the plate, and start building their leagues to the extent the NHL has built theirs, and bring top end talent over there to play. Russia seems to be doing that to a degree, spending lots of money to keep the talent they have over there, and steel some of theirs back, ala Perezhogin.
I actually agree with what the Russian league is doing, despite how annoying it might be.
Lets see if Sweden, and maybe the UK, (as London has been suggested as a good market), maybe Finland, and some club teams from Germany, Czech, and Switzerland can maybe get together, and build their league(s) together. That seems to me as more of a realistic idea, than the NHL actually expanding over to Europe.

If the overseas leagues spend more to keep their better talent over in their countries, that could eventually hurt the NHL wouldn't you think if a larger and larger number of the best players stayed home? With 30 teams you have to have the influx of Europeans to make the teams competitive and have the best players. Would there be enough good and upper lever talent to support such a system where a lot of the European players ended up not coming into the NHL- I think not.

 

[leftwing lock]

My Opinion/Solution

MY OPINION:
The nhl has to have a presence in europe to ensure its long term reputation as the worlds best league. The argument a prev. poster made regading how euro clubs should work harder to keep "there" talent is exactly what the russians are doing and is the reason why the nhl needs to get over there. The Russian federation would like nothing more than to keep all Russian players in Russia. Sweden looks like they may start to push to draw older players back ie. Mats Sundin's contract offer by Djurgårdens IF. These developments are not good news for the NHL. I have heard all the reasons why a euro expansion will not work or will work, travel, interst by fans, tv and reluctance by NA players to play there.

MY SOLUTION:
The National Hockey League creates a minor professional league (elite league/AHL calbre) in six european cities "NHL-EURO SIX" six to draw on original six, expansion six motifs. Cities will be from countrys outside of the super six (7) chosen based on population, economy, interest and history. They will play a 40 game season 8x ea. At the end of the regular season co-host with iihf a champions league season of another 40 game vs top club teams from super six 4 x ea. then have nhl style playoff for a cup "rbk" cup.
POTENTIAL CITIES
LONDON, PARIS, MILAN, AMSTERDAM, COPENHAGEN and VIENNA
POPULATION
Rank Metro area name Country Pop. of metro area Pop.of municipality
2 London * U.K 12,629,020 7,517,700
4 Paris * France 11,633,822 2,142,800
6 Milan * Italy 7,421,228 1,308,500
7 Randstad * Netherlands 6,620,133 1,209,419
30 Copenhagen * Denmark 1,978,667 501,158
35 Wien (Vienna) * Austria 1,850,000 1,550,123

By creating a euro elite league the Nhl establishes a presence, builds new markets ( talent base) for less $ then Nhl salaries, competes with top euro club teams and maybe in events such as the spengler cup. Also this does not step on the toes the euro leagues as teams are in markets with small or struggling domestic leagues. NHL eurosix will compete with european teams at there level, in there kind of format ie maintaining the domestic league rivalries, small market teams being able to earn a spot etc. This would strengthens nhl iihf relations. Hopefully european interest in a champions league series would be such that a decent tv deal could be worked out ( in twelve countries) and with a NHL involvement perhaps NA tv could be reached for aditional $$. NHL network could certainly air games instead of just running the same highlights over and over, maybe a lesser sports network would be interested ie the score. Don't forget broadband games.

Big potenial pleases everybody involved I think. Your thoughts?

 

[bleed_oil]

MY OPINION:
The nhl has to have a presence in europe to ensure its long term reputation as the worlds best league. The argument a prev. poster made regading how euro clubs should work harder to keep "there" talent is exactly what the russians are doing and is the reason why the nhl needs to get over there. The Russian federation would like nothing more than to keep all Russian players in Russia. Sweden looks like they may start to push to draw older players back ie. Mats Sundin's contract offer by Djurgårdens IF. These developments are not good news for the NHL. I have heard all the reasons why a euro expansion will not work or will work, travel, interst by fans, tv and reluctance by NA players to play there.

MY SOLUTION:
The National Hockey League creates a minor professional league (elite league/AHL calbre) in six european cities "NHL-EURO SIX" six to draw on original six, expansion six motifs. Cities will be from countrys outside of the super six (7) chosen based on population, economy, interest and history. They will play a 40 game season 8x ea. At the end of the regular season co-host with iihf a champions league season of another 40 game vs top club teams from super six 4 x ea. then have nhl style playoff for a cup "rbk" cup.
POTENTIAL CITIES
LONDON, PARIS, MILAN, AMSTERDAM, COPENHAGEN and VIENNA
POPULATION
Rank Metro area name Country Pop. of metro area Pop.of municipality
2 London * U.K 12,629,020 7,517,700
4 Paris * France 11,633,822 2,142,800
6 Milan * Italy 7,421,228 1,308,500
7 Randstad * Netherlands 6,620,133 1,209,419
30 Copenhagen * Denmark 1,978,667 501,158
35 Wien (Vienna) * Austria 1,850,000 1,550,123

By creating a euro elite league the Nhl establishes a presence, builds new markets ( talent base) for less $ then Nhl salaries, competes with top euro club teams and maybe in events such as the spengler cup. Also this does not step on the toes the euro leagues as teams are in markets with small or struggling domestic leagues. NHL eurosix will compete with european teams at there level, in there kind of format ie maintaining the domestic league rivalries, small market teams being able to earn a spot etc. This would strengthens nhl iihf relations. Hopefully european interest in a champions league series would be such that a decent tv deal could be worked out ( in twelve countries) and with a NHL involvement perhaps NA tv could be reached for aditional $$. NHL network could certainly air games instead of just running the same highlights over and over, maybe a lesser sports network would be interested ie the score. Don't forget broadband games.

Big potenial pleases everybody involved I think. Your thoughts?

Netherlands, England, Denmark, Italy
I really dont think so. Do they even play hockey in any of those countries, I dont think so. You may know better. Just throwing out a name of a city and population sounds great... but it doesnt make much sense if they have no interest in hockey in said location.

Personally I dont think we will ever see the NHL in Europe. The $$ involved between Europe and NA are a totally different scale. I think 4000 is considered a pretty good crowd for a hockey game in a lot of European Cities.

 

[leftwing lock]

Yes I know better

Netherlands, England, Denmark, Italy
I really dont think so. Do they even play hockey in any of those countries, I dont think so. You may know better. Just throwing out a name of a city and population sounds great... but it doesnt make much sense if they have no interest in hockey in said location.

Personally I dont think we will ever see the NHL in Europe. The $$ involved between Europe and NA are a totally different scale. I think 4000 is considered a pretty good crowd for a hockey game in a lot of European Cities.

As a matter of fact all four have professional and semi professional leagues full of home grown talent. But you obviously missed the point. The idea is to have teams without strong domestic leagues so fans in those areas can have teams to root for that compete with top clubs from other leagues. Furthermore what has always dogged a european super/elite leagues ( they have been tried in the past) is fans in tradional hockey countries love there home teams and don't support the idea of a NHL type league. Also its not the NHL in europe its is an NHL affiliated/development league (ie NFL europe) that will compete with other european elite leagues in terms of $, fan support and venue size.

 

[leftwing lock]

Just Curious

Hey bleed_oil, I was just curious why didn't you mention Paris they actually have a lesser league then any of the counties.

 

[nyrmetros]

The NHL does not need to expand to Europe, nor does it need to become a monopoly. Healthy compeitiotn between Euro clubs and leagues will make the NHL stronger.

 

[endlessdream83]

The NHL is simply not big enough, economically, to do this, and it's not practical at ALL to have teams from Europe AND North America, spanning possibly 12 timezones, playing in the same 'league'. Everyone brings up the Champions League/UEFA Cup in football as a precedent, but we're forgetting that it only covers continental Europe, and the furthest it spans is England and Israel (which is part of Asia, but that's another story!), so there's only about five hours difference in the timezones there.
Also, even in countries where it IS popular, hockey has NOWHERE near the worldwide presence that football does. It's played by practically every country in the world, and probably watched by about 1/5th of the population worldwide (I seem to recall hearing a number to that effect when the viewership of the last World Cup was being talked about).... that is BILLIONS of people we're talking about. Hockey would be lucky to draw more than 15 million viewers for even the biggest international event imaginable!
I think it's an admirable goal, the 'internationalization' of pro hockey, and the integration of teams from different parts of the world - I would love to see a 'Champions League' style event, something like an eight-team tournament involving the champs of the NHL, SEL, SM-Liiga, DEL, RSL, SLA (Swiss), Czech and Slovakian leagues... at this point it's really the only thing that's somewhat practical, and even then, going beyond a single exhibition is a very big commitment for the NHL team to take on.
Who knows? Maybe in another 10-15 years, the faster commercial airliners will make travelling halfway across the globe a 'minor jaunt', and this idea would be more feasible. But until then, I certainly DON'T think the NHL should think about leaving the North American continent! It needs to grow slowly to succeed.

 

[bleed_oil]

As a matter of fact all four have professional and semi professional leagues full of home grown talent. But you obviously missed the point. The idea is to have teams without strong domestic leagues so fans in those areas can have teams to root for that compete with top clubs from other leagues. Furthermore what has always dogged a european super/elite leagues ( they have been tried in the past) is fans in tradional hockey countries love there home teams and don't support the idea of a NHL type league. Also its not the NHL in europe its is an NHL affiliated/development league (ie NFL europe) that will compete with other european elite leagues in terms of $, fan support and venue size.

Last I head the NFL Europe was an abject failure.
Just wondering, can you get me an indication of the level of support for hockey in some of these exotic locations (I.e. UK, France, Holland, Italy)
Some tv ratings numbers or crow sizes perhaps?
I would be interested to know if the level of support for hockey in these markets is anywhere near large enough to generate money required for NHL hockey.
I doubt it though

 

[incident]

There's just far too many reasons why the NHL can't & won't expand to Europe in the short or medium term-

In North America, it's been shown that (in the right market) a sporting team can effectively set up overnight and draw consistently well. This doesn't really happen in Europe as the sporting culture is different - the NFL tried it 15ish years ago with the World League, and while you can get an initial surge of people who are drawn in by the novelty value, those people soon fall away. It takes a lot more time and patience to build a fanbase in Europe.

An example from the UK was Manchester Storm, who launched as a new side in a new Arena back in the mid-90s. In their first couple of seasons they frequently drew crowds of 10,000+ (very occasionally as high as 17,000). However after the novelty wore off, their crowds plummeted and within a few years they ended up going bankrupt. A team relaunched the following season in the same Arena, and averaged around 2,000 for the season..

Another major reason why it won't happen is that the Advertising market just isn't suitable - because of the different languages, economies, and cultures between European countries, most major corporations tend to focus their advertising more locally. A non-sports example is MTV, who initially tried to run a pan-european channel but quickly found that it was more profitable to run multiple localised stations as the advertisers were more willing to pay for their specific target market.

The UEFA Champions League is just about the only exception to this, as it's easily the most prestigious brand in European Football and so advertisers are desperate to be involved. Hockey would have to compete for commercial income and as a secondary (or lower) sport in most European countries it wouldn't fare anywhere near as well. I don't know how much is spent on pan-european advertising overall, but I'd be willing to bet that the Champions League accounts for a sizable chunk of it..

The lack of pan-european Advertising is probably also a major reason that the World League / NFL Europe has been so dramatically scaled down, with all but one of the sides located in Germany - attendances still aren't great, but by focusing on one particular market they can at least maximise advertising revenue.

I'm pretty certain that in terms of attracting support, any proposed new league/division/conference could only be possible if it consisted of existing teams who've already built a solid base - and given the advertising climate, smaller facilities, and lack of local opposition (less travelling fans + less interest in the games) etc, any side that joined would be worse off.

And that's all before you even consider the strain on the schedule, dilution of the talent pool, and whether the market or interest is even there in Europe in the first place..

 

[TheRedressor]

could never happen.....heck the life style itself is half a step below North America in Europe. That alone would make a non Euro not want to play there.

 

[doublejack]

If the NHL expands to Europe, it will be a second tier league to the one in North America. Like Football Europa is to the NFL. There are way too many obstacles for this to work any other way.

For example, the way Europeans take in sports is quite different than North Americans. If I'm not mistaken don't the European pro hockey teams basically just play on the weekends? This is one huge reason it won't happen. Another is the travel, as has been mentioned. And yet another is the economic disparity. If Europe could support NHL caliber teams, their salaries would be higher right now and their best players wouldn't all flock to the NHL.

 

[leftwing lock]

This is exactly what I was was proposing previously. Bleed_oil check back later I will have some numbers for you (just want to dbl check validity). So far looks like similar to other euro elite leagues.

 

[leftwing lock]

could never happen.....heck the life style itself is half a step below North America in Europe. That alone would make a non Euro not want to play there.

Pretty sure I could "adjust" to the life style in Amsterdam.

 

[hackm]

It would be gutsy, but easy to try. Invite a team from SEL to play a season in the Eastern Conference and a team from RSL to play in the Western Conference. The NHL would have to pay the bill for any financial losses.

 

[Art Vandelay]

could never happen.....heck the life style itself is half a step below North America in Europe. That alone would make a non Euro not want to play there.

Just keep telling yourself that.

 

[Art Vandelay]

As for cities, the good candidates right now should be the major Russian and German cities and Stockholm maybe Helsinki, Prag and Vienna

 

[KevinLin]

I would say playing in Russia would suck for any NA...russia from the looks of it is not exactly an awesome place to live.

I think the franchises would have to be confined to the EU...russia would need to have a functioning economy/some safety before there could be a franchise there. And with Putin in power does not look like that will happen.

 

[saskganesh]

could never happen.....heck the life style itself is half a step below North America in Europe. That alone would make a non Euro not want to play there.

an NHLer's lifestyle, even that of the worst payed player in the league, is much "higher" than the average population anywhere.

so can buy what he wants and to live how he wants. non factor.

 

[vivianmb]

know any pros in europe? they love it there all except for being so far from home.the ones i know are treated like rock stars.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

could never happen.....heck the life style itself is half a step below North America in Europe. That alone would make a non Euro not want to play there.

A step below North America? I guess it depends on the country and your individual tastes. If it's fast food, overweight women, SUVs, congested freeways, big box discount stores and a lack of culture or arts that you like, then yes, I'd go with North America.

GHOST

 

[leftwing lock]

A step below North America? I guess it depends on the country and your individual tastes. If it's fast food, overweight women, SUVs, congested freeways, big box discount stores and a lack of culture or arts that you like, then yes, I'd go with North America.

GHOST

Nice

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Nice

I forgot to mention beer. If you like a poor selection of watered-down brews, go with N.A.

GHOST