ESPN SportsCentury 100 Greatest Athletes (1999-2000)

tony d

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Jun 23, 2007
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Wonder someone like Jean Beliveau was not listing there nor is Doug Harvey. If you ask me one of those 2 is #5 on the all time greatest hockey player list.
 

Neutrinos

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Sep 23, 2016
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Having Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders at #72 and #74 seems like a gross oversight

With all due respect to Secretariat (#35) , he wasn't an all-star in 2 major sports
 

quoipourquoi

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Jan 26, 2009
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Wonder someone like Jean Beliveau was not listing there nor is Doug Harvey. If you ask me one of those 2 is #5 on the all time greatest hockey player list.

In terms of players who often come up in the #5 discussion (Beliveau, Harvey, Hull, Morenz, Richard, Roy, etc.), I don't think we can say anyone was more iconic than Bobby Hull and Maurice Richard. It makes sense that in an all-sports list, they would be the likely candidates for representation.
 

VanIslander

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Sep 4, 2004
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Of the top 50 the only two I don't really know are #7 Jim Thorpe and #10 Babe Didrikson and without looking them up online I'll guess he was an American QB and maybe she was that American giant tall golfer from the middle of the century I vaguely recall reading about way back when? Anyways...

I loved Joe Montana at 25th as he was indeed The Man for a long time yet is referenced less than others. Larry Bird at 30th seems a bit low.

6 of the 100 are hockey players, and of course all Canadian:

Rank:
5. Wayne Gretzky
21. Gordie Howe
31. Bobby Orr
55. Mario Lemieux
82. Bobby Hull
85. Maurice Richard

The order is solid. The top three are arguable but given the impact Gretzky had on the game, especially in the U.S., having him at the top makes sense.

PET PEEVE: Mexico is part of the continent of North America no matter how many from one side of the political spectrum keeps ignoring the fact. Yeah, the language is different, but it's not like Mexicans haven't dominated sports in the US of A! Just look at boxing. Julio Cesar Chavez was Mr. KO with a record 87 straight victories, 86 career KOs and was a six-time world champion. And everyone remembers Oscar De La Hoya, who won championships in six different weight classes and has earned more money on American pay-per-view fights than any boxer ever! And in terms of soccer, the greatest North American soccer player was Hugo Sanchez, leading Real Madrid to five consecutive La Liga titles and scoring 46 goals in his career.
 

double5son10

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Jan 20, 2011
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Of the top 50 the only two I don't really know are #7 Jim Thorpe and #10 Babe Didrikson and without looking them up online I'll guess he was an American QB and maybe she was that American giant tall golfer from the middle of the century I vaguely recall reading about way back when? Anyways...

I loved Joe Montana at 25th as he was indeed The Man for a long time yet is referenced less than others. Larry Bird at 30th seems a bit low.

6 of the 100 are hockey players, and of course all Canadian:

Rank:
5. Wayne Gretzky
21. Gordie Howe
31. Bobby Orr
55. Mario Lemieux
82. Bobby Hull
85. Maurice Richard

The order is solid. The top three are arguable but given the impact Gretzky had on the game, especially in the U.S., having him at the top makes sense.

PET PEEVE: Mexico is part of the continent of North America no matter how many from one side of the political spectrum keeps ignoring the fact. Yeah, the language is different, but it's not like Mexicans haven't dominated sports in the US of A! Just look at boxing. Julio Cesar Chavez was Mr. KO with a record 87 straight victories, 86 career KOs and was a six-time world champion. And everyone remembers Oscar De La Hoya, who won championships in six different weight classes and has earned more money on American pay-per-view fights than any boxer ever! And in terms of soccer, the greatest North American soccer player was Hugo Sanchez, leading Real Madrid to five consecutive La Liga titles and scoring 46 goals in his career.

A shame you don't know about Thorpe, it's a great, if rather sad story. The greatest Native American athlete ever, he was named by the Associated Press the greatest athlete of the 1st 50 yrs. of the 20th Century. Jim Thorpe was an Olympian, winning Gold in the decathlon (setting a world record that lasted 20 yes) and the pentathlon. He was later stripped of his medals for having played minor pro baseball, though the IOC didn't follow its own rules in doing so. The medals were posthumously returned.
Thorpe was also an inaugural member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame by virtue of winning the national collegiate title with the Carlisle Indian Industrial School (where he was a RB, DB, kicker & punter), under famed coach Pop Warner, winning three pro championships, as a running back, for the Canton Bulldogs and by being president of the American Professional Football Association (the NFL's forerunner) for two seasons. He also played parts of six seasons in Major League Baseball and played a couple of seasons of pro basketball.

Babe Didrickson was 5'5" actually, and starred in track & filed (two golds and a silver @ 1932 Olympics) and yes golf (41 LPGA title wins). Voted by AP as greatest female athlete of the 1st half of the 20th century.

Fair points about Mexican athletes. Chavez and Sanchez absolutely belong on ESPN's list. Hard to take seriously though with a horse on it. It IS ESPN after all.
 
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blogofmike

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Chavez is #1 at KO-ing professional cab drivers :) I like Oscar, but a list made in 1999 might have fresh memories of him backpedalling through the end of the Trinidad fight.

As only 7 boxers (and 2 non-heavyweights) are on the list, I don't know about these two. I'd say Sugar Ray Leonard has a better case than both.
 
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JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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Having Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders at #72 and #74 seems like a gross oversight

With all due respect to Secretariat (#35) , he wasn't an all-star in 2 major sports

I hated that three horses were on the list. Why not list a Ferrari or at least a cheetah?

I thought that the list was actually not bad in terms of hockey. I would have found space for one more hockey player, probably Beliveau. I also would move Lemieux higher. It's very difficult to accept Julius Erving above Lemieux, for just one example.
 

double5son10

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Jan 20, 2011
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Chavez is #1 at KO-ing professional cab drivers :) I like Oscar, but a list made in 1999 might have fresh memories of him backpedalling through the end of the Trinidad fight.

As only 7 boxers (and 2 non-heavyweights) are on the list, I don't know about these two. I'd say Sugar Ray Leonard has a better case than both.

Greg Haugen, is that you? Didn't you get dropped by JCC for saying that?
 
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crosbyshow

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And.....where is ...ROY JONES JR. ???

From 1994 to 2000, he was a superhuman.........in my view ....Jones is the most talented fighter ever........In the 90s...he is in the same class of Jordan, Lemieux in pure talent.

 

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Of the top 50 the only two I don't really know are #7 Jim Thorpe and #10 Babe Didrikson and without looking them up online I'll guess he was an American QB and maybe she was that American giant tall golfer from the middle of the century I vaguely recall reading about way back when? .
They were both also Olympic medalists who became stars in another sport. Thorpe was also one of the first football stars, the first president of the NFL, a martyr to the stupidity of amateurism and a strong candidate for best all around athlete ever.
 
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blood gin

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Jan 17, 2017
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I probably put Ruth over Jordan. And Gretzky 2nd. Ahead of Jordan too.

Also there are horses on this list.
 
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blood gin

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To be honest it's just so hard to compare team sport players to 1 on 1 guys (Ali, Tennis Players)
 

Zegras Zebra

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May 7, 2016
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I've got some opinions!

1. Based on their achievements and greatness in their individual sports I would put Jordan, Gretzky, Thorpe, and Ali as the top four (order isn't super important). There aren't many if any football/ baseball players who rival these athletes in terms of domination for their respective sports.

2. I would switch Orr and Howe and Richard and Hull in terms of hockey players on the list but its not a huge deal overall.

3. Lemieux should be higher than 55. Somewhere between Walter Payton and Pete Sampras is what I would find acceptable.

4. Horses shouldn't be on the list because they aren't human. If their jockeys were great enough maybe they could be considered, but horses should have a separate list.

5. Richard Petty and Mario Andretti were better than A.J. Foyt. Dale Earnhardt should also have been considered.

6. Mexican and other Central American or Caribbean athletes should have been considered for this list as well as mentioned above.

7. How would this list change based on careers of athletes who played most or all of their careers since 2000? I would imagine Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Lebron James would be high on this list if it came out today.
 

Neutrinos

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Sep 23, 2016
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I've got some opinions!

1. Based on their achievements and greatness in their individual sports I would put Jordan, Gretzky, Thorpe, and Ali as the top four (order isn't super important). There aren't many if any football/ baseball players who rival these athletes in terms of domination for their respective sports.

2. I would switch Orr and Howe and Richard and Hull in terms of hockey players on the list but its not a huge deal overall.

3. Lemieux should be higher than 55. Somewhere between Walter Payton and Pete Sampras is what I would find acceptable.

4. Horses shouldn't be on the list because they aren't human. If their jockeys were great enough maybe they could be considered, but horses should have a separate list.

5. Richard Petty and Mario Andretti were better than A.J. Foyt. Dale Earnhardt should also have been considered.

6. Mexican and other Central American or Caribbean athletes should have been considered for this list as well as mentioned above.

7. How would this list change based on careers of athletes who played most or all of their careers since 2000? I would imagine Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Lebron James would be high on this list if it came out today.

List of career achievements by Babe Ruth - Wikipedia
 

Iceman

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Jun 9, 2014
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I probably put Ruth over Jordan. And Gretzky 2nd. Ahead of Jordan too.

Also there are horses on this list.

Same and Jordan probably transcends sports more than anyone in Europe, but he still is probably 3rd for me, not #1 at least.
 

The Roy Of Ottawa

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Oct 4, 2017
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Which 21st Century NHL Players will make the ESPN list in 2099-2100? Is it too soon? Players who started in the NHL in 2000 or later, no carry-overs from the 90s, no Jagr, no Iginla.

Sidney Crosby, Alexander Ovechkin, Patrick Kane, Jonathan Toews...?

Is there a thread for 100 Greatest 21st Century NHL Players yet?
 

Dennis Bonvie

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Dec 29, 2007
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Chamberlin over Russell & Williams over DiMaggio. I like that.

Bo Jackson should be much higher. Scary ability in two sports.

Edwin Moses should be much higher.

Glad to see Satchel Paige & Josh Gibson on the list.

Bobby Orr and John Unitas, two of my all-time favorites, back-to-back at 31-32.

Where the hell is Lionel Conacher?
 

Kyle McMahon

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May 10, 2006
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Which 21st Century NHL Players will make the ESPN list in 2099-2100? Is it too soon? Players who started in the NHL in 2000 or later, no carry-overs from the 90s, no Jagr, no Iginla.

Sidney Crosby, Alexander Ovechkin, Patrick Kane, Jonathan Toews...?

Is there a thread for 100 Greatest 21st Century NHL Players yet?

I suppose those guys would all be on the 21st century list at the moment, being that this century is still in its infancy.

When it's all said and done, and unfortunately I really doubt any of us will be alive to see it, Crosby and Ovechkin probably end up on the bottom half of a 21st Century list in the year 2099.

Would Lebron James be early favorite for #1? I think football is too team-oriented for Tom Brady to beat him out. Tiger Woods has a case. Some might say Roger Federer. Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi probably get token inclusion, but would be too far out of the everyday American consciousness for an American publication to consider them for top spot. Michael Phelps has a case, but swimming exploits seem to be surpassed frequently enough that I would expect his legacy to fade relative to others as the century passes by. Usain Bolt on the other hand...it wouldn't shock me if those records still stand decades from now.

Chamberlin over Russell & Williams over DiMaggio. I like that.

Bo Jackson should be much higher. Scary ability in two sports.

Edwin Moses should be much higher.

Glad to see Satchel Paige & Josh Gibson on the list.

Bobby Orr and John Unitas, two of my all-time favorites, back-to-back at 31-32.

Where the hell is Lionel Conacher?

Too off-the-radar from an American perspective. Most of his exploits were Canadian-based.
 

blood gin

Registered User
Jan 17, 2017
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Strange list. ESPN always tries to elevate alternative "sports" competitors to the level of big 4 stars and I really don't think they should. I mean comparing a golfer as and athlete to a professional hockey player is apples and oranges

Bo Jackson at 72 is criminal. He needs to be top 10

Secretariat is a horse. You can't have a horse there. Put him in a greatest racehorse list not one with people. Stupid

Jack Nicklaus is a golfer. I know next to nothing about golf but his abilities I'm sure are incredible but it's a different type of competition. He needs to be on a list with other golfers, darts players, billiards players, curlers etc. Just doesn't seem right to have him listed as a better athlete than Gordie Howe. Joyner-Kersee, Didrikson, Navratilova need to be on greatest female athletes of all times lists not mixed with male athletes. Same with auto racers. Yes it is a sport and a ferocious competitions that deserve to be recognized but you can't have people who operate machinery on a list with those who have to run over linebackers.

oh. totally forgot I replied to this already
 

quoipourquoi

Goaltender
Jan 26, 2009
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Hockeytown, MI
Personally, I don’t mind the horses (and horseally, I don’t mind the people).

But does anyone remember if it was controversial that Terry Sawchuk specifically didn’t make the list at the time, given that there were multiple horses and no goaltenders of any sport? Given the individualistic nature of the position within its team sport (like a pitcher or quarterback), I just wasn’t sure if anyone remembers it coming up.
 

blood gin

Registered User
Jan 17, 2017
4,174
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Personally, I don’t mind the horses (and horseally, I don’t mind the people).

But does anyone remember if it was controversial that Terry Sawchuk specifically didn’t make the list at the time, given that there were multiple horses and no goaltenders of any sport? Given the individualistic nature of the position within its team sport (like a pitcher or quarterback), I just wasn’t sure if anyone remembers it coming up.

No. It wasn't at all. Hockey generally gets the short end of the stick. Plus ESPN was trying to cram in as many different sports as possible into the list and drum up controversy. So yea of course he should be there over people nobody has heard of like Don Budge or Willie Shoemacker or AJ Foyt, but ESPN back then was a network that tried to give exposure to lesser known sports and athletes (they even used to showcase pro wrestling) so that's why guys like Sawchuk didn't make it over
 

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