ESPN radio reporting

Status
Not open for further replies.

Benji Frank

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
1,811
24
Visit site
PitkanenPower said:

I don't have a source, but I do recall when Primeau signed, he told the media something to the effect that Clarke told him he could take the 17 mill now or try his luck later but that Bob had to get payroll to around the mid-30's so the offer might not be there later.....
 

Sanderson

Registered User
Sep 10, 2002
5,675
235
Hamburg, Germany
@Finnigan

That's no prove at all.
If you ask me to summarize the Bible, I sure as hell won't come back with 600 pages...

Nowhere in Daly's answer does it say how long the proposals were...
 

Egil

Registered User
Mar 6, 2002
8,838
1
Visit site
The length of those proposals is irrelevent. The short discriptions on the website are more than sufficient to give the union an understanding of what they would entail. If the Union had shown interest in these AT ALL (which of course it did not), then they could be expanded upon and details ironed out. Just as we don't see proposals now, you don't need proposals then either. Discussion of the issues is what drives the process, not paying a bunch of lawyers to write in 200 pages of legalese. The PA proposal, with the rollback, is easily summarized in a page, and, for all intents and purposes, could have easily been submitted to the NHL as such.

This "not a full proposal" crap is just that, crap. If their had been interest from the PA to any of those 6 ideas from the NHL, we would not be here today.
 

BAdvocate

Mediocrity is the enemy of any Dynasty
Feb 27, 2003
5,366
1,990
youtu.be
OTTSENS said:
Tell me what good it is to get cost certainty if you destroy the league getting it?

when the league is already on the path to destruction because of the lack of cost certainty.

The exact reason the majority of owners (smaller-revenue markets) are willing to lose a season (and actually lose less money), to get the 'right' deal.
 

tantalum

Hope for the best. Expect the worst
Sponsor
Apr 2, 2002
25,087
13,874
Missouri
The 6 paragraphs were short little ideas and not much more on paper. However, they did meet together for 2 full days going over how each of the systems would/could work. It's not as if the union wasn't given significantly more than a short paragraph on each of them during those two days of meetings despite what they like to say. Unless of course Daly and Bettman read as fast as a 5 year old.

What the NHl wanted was for the NHLPA to propose a deal agreeable to them within one of those frameworks or a modification of one of those frameworks. It comes back to the same thing over and over...it isn't the details of the system but the system itself that is causing the problems in this negotiation. On side has to jump to accept the others basic framework to get anything done.
 

John Flyers Fan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
22,416
16
Visit site
likea said:
I have seen that

I want to know how he knows they were presented to the union in the same form....

just because they didn't lin k their entire proposal like the NHLPA did doesn't mean they presented them in 1 paragraph each...

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2004/11/23/727468.html

Everything, up to this point, has been one-sided," said Guerin. "We've made proposals and we've been willing to talk about doing some things because we know that there are some franchises that need help financially.

"All we've heard from Gary is this stance: 'Salary cap, salary cap, salary cap.' We've given them well-thought-out proposals and he's not willing to negotiate. What we've gotten back is just ridiculous. We presented a proposal with hundreds of pages of fine details. What we got back is six concepts and the longest one may have been 230 words and some were 30 words. You know what that is? That's no effort. (Bettman) is not being serious."


================================================

This article was right around Thanksgiving.

Since the the NHLPA submitted a proposal of 200+ pages, and the NHL came back with their first legit fully thought out proposal, containing the hard salary cap.

None of the 6 ideas the NHL put forth has been written out extensively.
 

John Flyers Fan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
22,416
16
Visit site
Egil said:
The length of those proposals is irrelevent. The short discriptions on the website are more than sufficient to give the union an understanding of what they would entail. If the Union had shown interest in these AT ALL (which of course it did not), then they could be expanded upon and details ironed out. Just as we don't see proposals now, you don't need proposals then either. Discussion of the issues is what drives the process, not paying a bunch of lawyers to write in 200 pages of legalese. The PA proposal, with the rollback, is easily summarized in a page, and, for all intents and purposes, could have easily been submitted to the NHL as such.

This "not a full proposal" crap is just that, crap. If their had been interest from the PA to any of those 6 ideas from the NHL, we would not be here today.

The NHLPA had no interest in a hard cap, yet the NHL had no problem creating a legit proposal around a hard cap & 24% rollback.

If the NHL was ever serious about any of the other ideas, they should have been put on paper, to show how they would work. Much easier to go off numbers and figures than just an idea.
 

Go Flames Go*

Guest
Even I will admit some of the stuff the NHL offered was out of this world.

Bettman needs to be more hard like David Stern his idol.
 

mooseOAK*

Guest
John Flyers Fan said:
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2004/11/23/727468.html

Everything, up to this point, has been one-sided," said Guerin. "We've made proposals and we've been willing to talk about doing some things because we know that there are some franchises that need help financially.

"All we've heard from Gary is this stance: 'Salary cap, salary cap, salary cap.' We've given them well-thought-out proposals and he's not willing to negotiate. What we've gotten back is just ridiculous. We presented a proposal with hundreds of pages of fine details. What we got back is six concepts and the longest one may have been 230 words and some were 30 words. You know what that is? That's no effort. (Bettman) is not being serious."


================================================

This article was right around Thanksgiving.

Since the the NHLPA submitted a proposal of 200+ pages, and the NHL came back with their first legit fully thought out proposal, containing the hard salary cap.

None of the 6 ideas the NHL put forth has been written out extensively.


According to Daly the league has been trying to discuss proposals since 2001 and the union resisted and didn't submit anything until that first 200 page one. It was obviously a ploy on the NHLPA's part to wait until what they thought was the last minute and submit something that the owners out of desperation would accept. Oops!
 

John Flyers Fan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
22,416
16
Visit site
Go Flames Go said:
Even I will admit some of the stuff the NHL offered was out of this world.

Bettman needs to be more hard like David Stern his idol.

If Bettman needs to learn anything from Stern it would be MARKETING.
 

mooseOAK*

Guest
John Flyers Fan said:
If Bettman needs to learn anything from Stern it would be MARKETING.
Which Michael Jordan did for him. Things aren't looking so good in the NBA now.
 

John Flyers Fan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
22,416
16
Visit site
mooseOAK said:
According to Daly the league has been trying to discuss proposals since 2001 and the union resisted and didn't submit anything until that first 200 page one. It was obviously a ploy on the NHLPA's part to wait until what they thought was the last minute and submit something that the owners out of desperation would accept. Oops!

I'm not saying that the NHLPA has been perfect here either. It's a joke that the NHLPA waited until December and the NHL waited until a week after that to make their first legit proposals.
 

tantalum

Hope for the best. Expect the worst
Sponsor
Apr 2, 2002
25,087
13,874
Missouri
John Flyers Fan said:
If the NHL was ever serious about any of the other ideas, they should have been put on paper, to show how they would work. Much easier to go off numbers and figures than just an idea.

As I mentioned...they had two days of face to face meetings discussing the ideas and providing details of how they could/should work. They wanted the NHLPA to bring the first offer to the table within one of those systems to show they were serious in dealing with the problems and well because the NHL was in the drivers seat.
 

John Flyers Fan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
22,416
16
Visit site
mooseOAK said:
Which Michael Jordan did for him. Things aren't looking so good in the NBA now.

The NBA marketed the hell out of the Celtics, Lakers, Magic, Bird, Jordan, the Bad Boys, the Dream Team, Shaq, Kobe etc. etc.

Who or what teams does the NHL market, other than ESPN televising the Red Wings any chance they get ???
 

Egil

Registered User
Mar 6, 2002
8,838
1
Visit site
John Flyers Fan said:
The NHLPA had no interest in a hard cap, yet the NHL had no problem creating a legit proposal around a hard cap & 24% rollback.

If the NHL was ever serious about any of the other ideas, they should have been put on paper, to show how they would work. Much easier to go off numbers and figures than just an idea.

But it is obvious how they would work, and if the PA was even REMOTELY interested in them, the NHL would have gladly provided numbers. Its a non-issue IMHO, and one used by the top of the PA for PR only. The PA understood what the NHL was trying to do, and rejected it. End of story.
 

HF2002

Registered User
Aug 20, 2003
2,924
80
Ottawa
Visit site
barnburner said:
I'll be glad to drive them both to the airport and buy their tickets to Iraq.
It's going to be expensive, especially since these would be 1 way tickets.

I pledge $3.

The first dollar will be the ceremonial Loonie to be buried in the nose of the plane. The second and third Loonies will be buried in each wing so that the eagle will soar, as sung by John Ashcroft.
 

mooseOAK*

Guest
John Flyers Fan said:
The NBA marketed the hell out of the Celtics, Lakers, Magic, Bird, Jordan, the Bad Boys, the Dream Team, Shaq, Kobe etc. etc.

Who or what teams does the NHL market, other than ESPN televising the Red Wings any chance they get ???
Who do they have to market on a league-wide basis? All the NBA has to do is say Lebron James will be on TV this weekend and instant ratings increase. Doing that doesn't take some kind of marketing genius.

Bettman has never had a dominant, interesting to watch team in any of the top 3 markets since the '94 Rangers. The Devils despite their success have been painful to watch. In order to market the NHL he needs something to work with and that hasn't been happening. He can't take the Hawks away form Wirtz or solve the Rangers' problems or keep the Kings from getting injured.

Putting NHL teams in non-traditional markets is marketing despite all the whining about it.

In general, Stern's job is a lot easier that Bettman's in terms of promoting the league.
 

barnburner

Registered User
Apr 23, 2004
567
0
c-carp said:
Amen to that, the NHL marketing from a league standpoint is a flat out joke.

That's because Bettman has never learned that the things that make nhl hockey unique are the things it needs to be emphasizing, instead of trying to bend it into the shape of the other sports.
 

Trottier

Very Random
Feb 27, 2002
29,232
14
San Diego
Visit site
Egil said:
But again, the league has been, IMHO, very clear on this. They want a system that will GUARANTEE that player salaries will not exceed a designated % of league revenue. The easiest, crudest and simplest solution is a Hard cap, but it is not the only effective technique to meet their needs. It is in fact the players union that has muddied the waters, as they have called anything the NHL does a "hard cap", even though not everything they have proposed could be considered a hard cap.

Thanks for a thorough response. Interesting (ironic, really) the assessment that the NHLPA has "muddied the waters" on a hardcap. Indeed, they just may have...and anti-NHLPA zealots (including on this board) have jumped into that dirty body of water feet first!

Needless to say, also agree 100% with your characterization ("crudest, simplest solution") of the hardcap. The owners are 100% justified, IMO, in wishing that salaries do not exceed a fixed percentage of revenues. But a hardcap is not the best and fairest way to get there. Hopefully, as you state convincingly here, it's fans moreso than players and owners, who are single-mindedly obsessed with that ill-conceived notion.
 

John Flyers Fan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
22,416
16
Visit site
mooseOAK said:
Who do they have to market on a league-wide basis? All the NBA has to do is say Lebron James will be on TV this weekend and instant ratings increase. Doing that doesn't take some kind of marketing genius.

Bettman has never had a dominant, interesting to watch team in any of the top 3 markets since the '94 Rangers. The Devils despite their success have been painful to watch. In order to market the NHL he needs something to work with and that hasn't been happening. He can't take the Hawks away form Wirtz or solve the Rangers' problems or keep the Kings from getting injured.

Putting NHL teams in non-traditional markets is marketing despite all the whining about it.

In general, Stern's job is a lot easier that Bettman's in terms of promoting the league.

Who do they have to market ??? :banghead: :banghead:

Since Bettman's been around:

Scott Stevens
Eric Lindros
Jaromir Jagr
Joe Sakic
Detroit Red Wings
Colorado Avalanche
Patrick Roy
Domink Hasek
Martin Brodeur
Jarome Iginla
Peter Forsberg

1998 Olympics
2002 Olympics
2004 World Cup

just to name a few ....


Does Stern have an easier job ??? .... no doubt .... but that doesn't mean the NHL shouldn't try.

How difficult is it to market: Speed and toughness ???

Detroit, Philadelphia, Dallas, Denver have all been good/great during his tenure and they are major media markets.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->