Player Discussion Erik Karlsson Discussion Thread | Part IV | Foot Surgery Edition

[Pierre from Orleans]

I think your numbers are a bit inflated.

the first 3 by .5 or more. maybe by 1 with Stone and Duchene

I'll make a bet with you that Hoffman never signs a contract in ottawa again so he's not an issue. you pick the betting terms.

I feel Hoffman is on his way out too but curious as to why you think so

 

[Sensung]

Like I've said before . Any offer which is less than 10 mill a year is a low ball offer

Yup!

 

[Sun God Nika]

Sens will shoot themselves in the foot if their initial offer is 10m+ . Karlssons camp will shoot themselves in the foot of they ask for anything less than 13.5. It's called a negotiation for a reason.

 

[JD1]

I feel Hoffman is on his way out too but curious as to why you think so

hockey reasons. not money reasons. Well not money per se. I think he's fallen out of favour as a player and will be sacrificed to keep everything else

 

[Viletho]

hockey reasons. not money reasons. Well not money per se. I think he's fallen out of favour as a player and will be sacrificed to keep everything else

If somehow we are can get a top 10 pick in a trade with Hoffman, I think Iwould pulled the trigger.
3 first round pick this year and 2 in the top 10 would be key for a quicker retool/rebuild.

Not an easy yes, but i would consider it. If Hoffman was 24-25 i would probably not do it. I just think he won't be around when they finally have a chance to compete more seriously.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

If somehow we are can get a top 10 pick in a trade with Hoffman, I think Iwould pulled the trigger.
3 first round pick this year and 2 in the top 10 would be key for a quicker retool/rebuild.

Not an easy yes, but i would consider it. If Hoffman was 24-25 i would probably not do it. I just think he won't be around when they finally have a chance to compete more seriously.

EDM is our only shot at a top 10 pick for Hoffman. I would be surprised if they'd give up 10 for him though.

PHI has 14. They were apparently in on Hoffman earlier in the season. Depending on how the draft shakes out, we could get one of our top 10 guys at 14.

 

[Viletho]

EDM is our only shot at a top 10 pick for Hoffman. I would be surprised if they'd give up 10 for him though.

PHI has 14. They were apparently in on Hoffman earlier in the season. Depending on how the draft shakes out, we could get one of our top 10 guys at 14.

So to you, you would maybe pulled the trigger if when we are at 14th, one of our guya ia still on the board?

I don't know the draft at that well so i don't know if it could be a possibility to explore for the 14th if Philly is still interested.

 

[dumbdick]

Alfie quote from May 20, 2018 news article

Asked if he'd heard anything about the future of his fellow Erik Karlsson, a fellow Swede and current captain of the Senators who is scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent in July 2019, Alfredsson said: "To me, he says that he wants to stay. But it's not all in his hands.

 

[Sensung]

guess you didn' watch much hockey last season

Guess you haven't watch much hockey for the last decade.

 

[dumbdick]

Any chance they land on a short-term deal? If EK declines significantly, this contract could sink our franchise. I love EK, but there is zero margin for error on a contract like this. I'd be happy with them overpaying him on a shortish term deal (2-4 years), just to mitigate the risk.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Any chance they land on a short-term deal? If EK declines significantly, this contract could sink our franchise. I love EK, but there is zero margin for error on a contract like this. I'd be happy with them overpaying him on a shortish term deal (2-4 years), just to mitigate the risk.

What is the benefit for Karlsson to do this? If he has a big injury, he's potentially losing out on $50 million.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Any chance they land on a short-term deal? If EK declines significantly, this contract could sink our franchise. I love EK, but there is zero margin for error on a contract like this. I'd be happy with them overpaying him on a shortish term deal (2-4 years), just to mitigate the risk.

Nope.

The Sens either marry themselves to EK, or they don't. There is rarely an in between with a franchise UFA.

 

[BonAppleTea]

Any chance they land on a short-term deal? If EK declines significantly, this contract could sink our franchise. I love EK, but there is zero margin for error on a contract like this. I'd be happy with them overpaying him on a shortish term deal (2-4 years), just to mitigate the risk.

He is not a bridge contract kind of player. I think the negotiations would go down the toilet if they even mention it

 

[Willy Stylez]

Any chance they land on a short-term deal? If EK declines significantly, this contract could sink our franchise. I love EK, but there is zero margin for error on a contract like this. I'd be happy with them overpaying him on a shortish term deal (2-4 years), just to mitigate the risk.

Put yourself in Karlssons shoes. Why in the world would he sign short term? It makes no sense at all.

 

[BonAppleTea]

Put yourself in Karlssons shoes. Why in the world would he sign short term? It makes no sense at all.

To quench his everlasting thirst for Eugene Melnyks unconditional love

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Deku]

lmfao. I called this "strategy" as soon as they said that. They think we're a bunch of idiots.

 

[Fandlauer]

Ya, other than to the few Melnyk die hards left, it was painfully obvious it was going this way.

 

[Micklebot]

lmfao. I called this "strategy" as soon as they said that. They think we're a bunch of idiots.

Sure, but this is just somebody with the same suspicion as you, not confirmation the team is doing that. Not really news, just Mendes' opinion.

 

[BankStreetParade]

lmfao. I called this "strategy" as soon as they said that. They think we're a bunch of idiots.

Ya, other than to the few Melnyk die hards left, it was painfully obvious it was going this way.

Maybe it has nothing to do with them thinking the fan base are a "bunch of idiots" or that "Melnyk die hards" are going to defend this. Maybe this is a genuinely difficult decision that can shape the fortunes of this team for the next decade+, if done right.

Yes, the optics are bad. Yes, the whole of the NHL sees every move Ottawa makes through the prism of money or budgets.

But maybe this is about a team that looks like it's been spinning its f***ing wheels for the last 10 years, has a massive lottery ticket they can sell that can potentially turn around their fortunes but requires a small amount of short term sacrifice.

It's almost impossible in the NHL these days to palate these contracts that pay players more than $10 million per season. And it seems like it almost doesn't matter who that player is. Go through the list of teams with guys getting paid over $8.5 million (no less $10+ million) and you're starting to see the effects of players having down years and the perception around their contracts.

Look at how much acrimony there is over Stamkos' performance in the ECF. How much of his performance is directly related to the salary he's paid? How much harsher would the conversation be if Stamkos was getting paid $10 million? $11 million? $12 million? $13 million?

Aren't these the same things we should be discussing about Karlsson? The Erik Karlsson who wins Norris trophies and has a PPG season is worth $12 million per year. But what about the Karlsson that has 9 goals, 53 assists and a -25 rating? How many people would be ok with that guy making $12+ million per year? How long before the fanbase would start talking about trading him?

Look, I love Karlsson as much as anyone else in this fanbase. The amount of joy he's brought to us since he put on an Ottawa jersey is not something I would trade away. But going forward? You have to start thinking about how the hell this team is going to ever win a championship with the group they have. Maybe Karlsson is part of that potentially winning group. Maybe he's not. But I wouldn't begrudge the management for having that conversation and thinking about it seriously. In fact, they should be commended for having these kinds of conversations that are extremely difficult to approach. At least it shows there's a desire to build a winner here and not just to placate a fanbase because they like a guy, even if he is one of the most popular in team history.

 

[Fandlauer]

Maybe it has nothing to do with them thinking the fan base are a "bunch of idiots" or that "Melnyk die hards" are going to defend this. Maybe this is a genuinely difficult decision that can shape the fortunes of this team for the next decade+, if done right.

Yes, the optics are bad. Yes, the whole of the NHL sees every move Ottawa makes through the prism of money or budgets.

But maybe this is about a team that looks like it's been spinning its ****ing wheels for the last 10 years, has a massive lottery ticket they can sell that can potentially turn around their fortunes but requires a small amount of short term sacrifice.

It's almost impossible in the NHL these days to palate these contracts that pay players more than $10 million per season. And it seems like it almost doesn't matter who that player is. Go through the list of teams with guys getting paid over $8.5 million (no less $10+ million) and you're starting to see the effects of players having down years and the perception around their contracts.

Look at how much acrimony there is over Stamkos' performance in the ECF. How much of his performance is directly related to the salary he's paid? How much harsher would the conversation be if Stamkos was getting paid $10 million? $11 million? $12 million? $13 million?

Aren't these the same things we should be discussing about Karlsson? The Erik Karlsson who wins Norris trophies and has a PPG season is worth $12 million per year. But what about the Karlsson that has 9 goals, 53 assists and a -25 rating? How many people would be ok with that guy making $12+ million per year? How long before the fanbase would start talking about trading him?

Look, I love Karlsson as much as anyone else in this fanbase. The amount of joy he's brought to us since he put on an Ottawa jersey is not something I would trade away. But going forward? You have to start thinking about how the hell this team is going to ever win a championship with the group they have. Maybe Karlsson is part of that potentially winning group. Maybe he's not. But I wouldn't begrudge the management for having that conversation and thinking about it seriously. In fact, they should be commended for having these kinds of conversations that are extremely difficult to approach. At least it shows there's a desire to build a winner here and not just to placate a fanbase because they like a guy, even if he is one of the most popular in team history.

We're the only team in the NHL that wouldn't lock up a 28 year old Hall of Fame top 5 player in the league. There are no valid excuses. It's just pathetic ownership.

 

[Sensung]

But I wouldn't begrudge the management for having that conversation and thinking about it seriously. In fact, they should be commended for having these kinds of conversations that are extremely difficult to approach. At least it shows there's a desire to build a winner here and not just to placate a fanbase because they like a guy, even if he is one of the most popular in team history.

The bolded is a complete crock of shit.

It has ZERO to do with building a winner and everything to do with having an owner who is not NHL calibre and couldn't care less about winning.

It is $ motivated 100%.

 

[Deku]

Sure, but this is just somebody with the same suspicion as you, not confirmation the team is doing that. Not really news, just Mendes' opinion.

I know that, I just maintain that prediction and think we'll still see it play out. Interesting to see it echoed by someone in the media

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

If that's true, then it's the worst line of thought in franchise history.

Do what you honestly believe is the best thing for the franchise. If that means trading him at the draft, do it. Worry about the fan fallout later. Negative press and fan outrage will fade over time.....a bad decision regarding a franchise player will have ripple effects for years (hell, even decades).

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If that's true, then it's the worst line of thought in franchise history.

Do what you honestly believe is the best thing for the franchise. If that means trading him at the draft, do it. Worry about the fan fallout later. Negative press and fan outrage will fade over time.....a bad decision regarding a franchise player will have ripple effects for years (hell, even decades).

I am not sure why he said what he said in the first place. Its evident GMs can talk and negotiate with players ahead of July 1... July 1 they can make any agreement official. It is a very odd thing to say and a very odd strategy to employ. The only motivation for saying it imo is to appease the fans. It was said by some pundits at the time , what if Dorion is offered a great deal at the draft .. what's he going to do? I agree that Dorion should have a pretty good idea by the draft where he stands with Karlsson and he should have all the cards he can play in front of him at the draft. We do not have all the information.