Player Discussion Erik Karlsson Discussion Thread Part III

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Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
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Let's not forget, the last Norris Erik got, Doughty still got the most 1st place votes....when the Kings missed the playoffs.

Sure, Burns is having a great year so far, but so did Erik last season, and all we hard was crickets from the media regarding his play. There is obviously a bias going on.
 

OD99

Registered User
Oct 13, 2012
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Let's not forget, the last Norris Erik got, Doughty still got the most 1st place votes....when the Kings missed the playoffs.

Sure, Burns is having a great year so far, but so did Erik last season, and all we hard was crickets from the media regarding his play. There is obviously a bias going on.

Ding!!! Ding!!! Ding!!!

People assume that just because fans point out the obvious discrepancies in how Karlsson is portrayed compared to other (cough!! CANADIAN!! cough!!) D-men that they are whiny and don't give enough credit to other players.

Burns is having a jaw dropping season and rightfully the media are talking about it HOWEVER that does not discount how Karlsson did several things last season that ONLY generational D-men had ever done and the press were tight lipped and tried to find fault in his game.

It's a pretty obvious double standard at this stage. If Burns wins I won't have any issue with it but I will always maintain last season was a travesty and the people who voted Doughty ahead of Karlsson should be ashamed.
 

Six Assets

Tim Stützle
Jun 29, 2013
11,760
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Ottawa
Karlsson would have won if we made the playoffs. It's not a double standard. Most people agree Karlsson is a better defenceman than Burns.

Burns is carrying SJ. Right now, he deserves the norris. Easily.

Sens fans are very insecure when it comes to Karlsson. Sure it's like that with every fanbase, but imo it's worse with Sens fans.
 

jason2020

Registered User
Sep 24, 2014
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Karlsson would have won if we made the playoffs. It's not a double standard. Most people agree Karlsson is a better defenceman than Burns.

Burns is carrying SJ. Right now, he deserves the norris. Easily.

Sens fans are very insecure when it comes to Karlsson. Sure it's like that with every fanbase, but imo it's worse with Sens fans.

Leafs fans are the most insecure by far as for EK he does not get the respect he should be when some make the claim he is not a top 10 in the league yes there is a double standard.
 

Mingus Dew

Microphone Assassin
Oct 7, 2013
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If Burns keeps this up then his offensive season will surpass Karlsson's of last year imo.

Absolutely nothing wrong with giving Burns the Norris this year. He's having an incredible season (on a playoff team, which is crucial) and should be rewarded for it. It's not going to make EK any worse of a player or any less likely to receive accolades moving forward.
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
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Karlsson would have won if we made the playoffs. It's not a double standard. Most people agree Karlsson is a better defenceman than Burns.

Burns is carrying SJ. Right now, he deserves the norris. Easily.

Sens fans are very insecure when it comes to Karlsson. Sure it's like that with every fanbase, but imo it's worse with Sens fans.

Spot on
 

jason2020

Registered User
Sep 24, 2014
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If Burns keeps this up then his offensive season will surpass Karlsson's last year imo.

Absolutely nothing wrong with giving Burns the Norris this year. He's having an incredible season (on a playoff team, which is crucial) and should be rewarded for it. It's not going to make EK any worse of a player or any less likely to receive accolades moving forward.

What people are trying to get at is when EK has the same sort of season Burns has its down played.
 

Ben White

Registered User
Dec 28, 2015
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What people are trying to get at is when EK has the same sort of season Burns has its down played.

Yeah, that's kinda spectacular, obviously last season EK was still a better 2-way Dman than Burns is now yet his defense was downplayed all year for the Due Doughty Memorial Trophy to come along.

Trophies really don't tell much, this might be the first year since 2010-11 that EK won't lead all dmen in points (Cooke year excluded).
 
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Mingus Dew

Microphone Assassin
Oct 7, 2013
5,576
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What people are trying to get at is when EK has the same sort of season Burns has its down played.

Well the circumstances are different.

Burns is on a playoff team/SC contender, while EK was on a bubble team (that was looking like it it might miss at this time last year). This is far and away the most important difference between what Burns is doing this year and what EK did last year. If the Sens had made the playoffs in 2015/2016 then we wouldn't be having this debate.

Burns is currently 3rd in the NHL in point production and only 5 points back of McDavid - there is a realistic chance (at least for now) that he will win the scoring title. Last year, EK was putting up similar numbers but Kane was lighting the league on fire and had like 20 points on the next closest player.

Burns also has 22 goals right now. He may finish with the same amount of points as 2015/2016 EK but with 30+ goals to his name.
 

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
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Let's not forget, the last Norris Erik got, Doughty still got the most 1st place votes....when the Kings missed the playoffs.

Sure, Burns is having a great year so far, but so did Erik last season, and all we hard was crickets from the media regarding his play. There is obviously a bias going on.

There's two ways burns isn't getting the Norris.

1) He uncharacteristically slows down. While Karlsson heats up even more than usual in order to cover the difference in points.
2) Burns takes cooking classes with Craig Anderson sometime within the next week in order to learn how to properly prepare a chicken breast.

The only other way I can see it happening is if the Canadian media (they all come together and form one giant person like an overweight 50 year old Voltron) decide that they don't want to look ridiculous for giving Doughty the Norris last year despite Karlsson's historic offensive season, so they psyche themselves out by giving it to Karl this year even know Burns finishes with 10+ more points than him and tops Karls season last year offensively.

Don't take this as me saying Karl should get it over Burns if the season ended with them as they are today, but there's a stronger argument for Karlsson to get it over Burns this season than there was for Doughty to get it over Karl last year. Apologists last year ultimately used the "didn't make the playoffs" as their out for deliberately choosing the wrong guys (don't pretend this is hyperbole, there were members of the media who went on record about the campaign for Doughty). But the year before, Doughty got more first place votes despite LA missing the playoffs, not to mention that the main reason the Norris doesn't go to a non-playoff team's player is because usually the reason teams aren't in the playoffs is because they don't have stand out performers like Karlsson. It's rare for a non playoff team to have a defender that finished top 5 in points and made such a dramatic difference when he was on the ice compared to when he was off of it.

Ultimately, as it is now, no doubt Burns should get the Norris. But I think a lot of fans are having their perception of this Norris race sullied by Doughty being handed the trophy last year. There's an argument to be made that among hardcore fans, that Norris win will do Doughty more bad than good as it'll always be seen as a black mark on his career. He's certainly good enough to win the Norris in the right year, but last year was the wrong one and it gives off the perception that he was never good enough to win the Norris so he needed the Canadian media to campaign for him to overcome another player having a historical season.
 

Erik Alfredsson

Beast Mode Cowboy!
Jan 14, 2012
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Burns is great but Karlsson's better. Burns might have the lead in points, but I'm calling it now, by the end of the season Karlsson will close that gap.
 

jason2020

Registered User
Sep 24, 2014
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Well the circumstances are different.

Burns is on a playoff team/SC contender, while EK was on a bubble team (that was looking like it it might miss at this time last year). This is far and away the most important difference between what Burns is doing this year and what EK did last year. If the Sens had made the playoffs in 2015/2016 then we wouldn't be having this debate.

Burns is currently 3rd in the NHL in point production and only 5 points back of McDavid - there is a realistic chance (at least for now) that he will win the scoring title. Last year, EK was putting up similar numbers but Kane was lighting the league on fire and had like 20 points on the next closest player.

Burns also has 22 goals right now. He may finish with the same amount of points as 2015/2016 EK but with 30+ goals to his name.


My issue is not about who should win it the its the lack of respect EK gets take last year many Toronto based reporters said he should not be even talked about as winning it.
 

Burrowsaurus

Registered User
Mar 20, 2013
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As of right now. Got to give it to burns. A bit hypocrital if o didn't think that as I thought the points was a huge but pro karlson argument last year.
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
40,755
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Karlsson would have won if we made the playoffs. It's not a double standard. Most people agree Karlsson is a better defenceman than Burns.

Like someone said, Doughty had more 1st place votes on an absolutely average season, for someone who's supposedly a Norris candidate, on a contending team that didnt make playoffs.

There was no way in hell EK was winning even if his team made the playoffs, lets be real. Show me someone who had a better season than EK, who didnt win the Norris just because his team didnt make playoffs

ill wait.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,829
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Well the circumstances are different.

Burns is on a playoff team/SC contender, while EK was on a bubble team (that was looking like it it might miss at this time last year). This is far and away the most important difference between what Burns is doing this year and what EK did last year. If the Sens had made the playoffs in 2015/2016 then we wouldn't be having this debate.

Burns is currently 3rd in the NHL in point production and only 5 points back of McDavid - there is a realistic chance (at least for now) that he will win the scoring title. Last year, EK was putting up similar numbers but Kane was lighting the league on fire and had like 20 points on the next closest player.

Burns also has 22 goals right now. He may finish with the same amount of points as 2015/2016 EK but with 30+ goals to his name.

It's not about the Norris. It's the recognition. Where was all this ga-ga love from the media last year when Erik did this?

Not only that, but what Erik did was more of an accomplishment simply because he isn't surrounded with the talent Burns has. Put Erik on a contending team and the freedom to fly and he'd break 100 points.

Quite frankly, I really don't care if Erik ever wins another Norris. After "due Doughty," the award has no meaning.
 

DrunkUncleDenis

Condra Fan
Mar 27, 2012
11,820
1,682
It's not about the Norris. It's the recognition. Where was all this ga-ga love from the media last year when Erik did this?

Not only that, but what Erik did was more of an accomplishment simply because he isn't surrounded with the talent Burns has. Put Erik on a contending team and the freedom to fly and he'd break 100 points.

Quite frankly, I really don't care if Erik ever wins another Norris. After "due Doughty," the award has no meaning.

I really agree with the last bit. He is the player for Ottawa who has finally broken into that "top 10 NHL player" discussion, and won a major trohpy twice to boot. There will always be a new flavour of the month for that trophy, and with EK playing for Ottawa, he will never get the proper recognition. After the joke we saw with Norris voting last year, it's pointless. But I will say this: there is a reason that year after year, it is "Karlsson vs *insert other player here*".

Funny that we finally have a player that could dominate winning a major trophy year after year, and all of a sudden the Norris is a huge hot button issue. You can never win vs the rest of the NHL fans and media.
 

OD99

Registered User
Oct 13, 2012
4,869
3,976
It's not about Burns or Karlsson winning this year it is about the thought process.

Last year Karlsson had a generational season and all the media could do was try to find reasons Karlsson shouldn't win it.

This year Burns is having a generational type season and as of now he is a shoe in for the award.

When you add in that the season prior Doughty received more 1st place votes than Karlsson despite not making the playoffs then you see the clear double standard and agendas.

I will wish Burns well in his quest for 30+ goals and fully support his Norris win if he keeps up the pace a different separation from the pack but pointing out the clear bias shouldn't paint people like me as homers or insecure, etc...the evidence is clearly right there.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,829
9,252
Wort part is, we're going to see the same thing with Stone and the Selke in a few years. No matter how magical Stone is on both sides of the puck, he won't be in any serious discussion for the award, or even talked about that much by the media outside of the city.
 
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