Erik Karlsson Discussion Thread: He mad

[Micklebot]

Preissing was an all situation defenseman who had a 43 and 38 point season.

He also played a huge role paired with Corvo on our run to the cup.

Maybe your to young to remember how good he was

A huge role with 15 mins a night (lowest among d other than Shubert, who was playing forward)?

I mean, I get that some people are underrating Preissing, but as an all-round defender, he really wasn't anything to write home about. He could move the puck well, and took full advantage of being on the ice with the most dominante line in hockey, but this wasn't a guy that played both ends of the ice equally well, or a guy that created offense (the pizza line was the one doing most of the work). Beyond that, Corvo was probably the more offensively gifted of the two on the pairing.

There's a reason Meszaros got the spot ahead of him, despite it meaning that we had 2 LHD on one pair, and 2 RHD on the other.

 

[Sens]

Yeah, a few spots behind Phillip Boucher and Brian Rafalski. Such elite company.

Boucher with a 19G 50Pts season
Refalski coming off a 55Pts season

If we could have either right now from those years, would easily be our 2D right now

 

[topshelf15]

Boucher with a 19G 50Pts season
Refalski coming off a 55Pts season

If we could have either right now from those years, would easily be our 2D right now

We have that and more in Ceci ,he is easily our 3rd best defender .

 

[topshelf15]

A huge role with 15 mins a night (lowest among d other than Shubert, who was playing forward)?

I mean, I get that some people are underrating Preissing, but as an all-round defender, he really wasn't anything to write home about. He could move the puck well, and took full advantage of being on the ice with the most dominante line in hockey, but this wasn't a guy that played both ends of the ice equally well, or a guy that created offense (the pizza line was the one doing most of the work). Beyond that, Corvo was probably the more offensively gifted of the two on the pairing.

There's a reason Meszaros got the spot ahead of him, despite it meaning that we had 2 LHD on one pair, and 2 RHD on the other.

He would actually be a better comparison

 

[Sens]

We have that and more in Ceci ,he is easily our 3rd best defender .

On pace for 23Pts averaging under 19 minutes a game

On a good team he's a bottom pair defenseman

 

[Sens]

He would actually be a better comparison

Meszaros played physical

 

[BatherSeason]

Yep him scoring on two pretty stacked rosters ,doesnt make him a norris defender sorry bud .Go ahead and poll most here and you wont find many that would agree with you .Preissing was a depth PP dman ,Ceci is a young two way defender still growing into his game ,and is the better defense man period

Since many Sens fans are blind to Cody Ceci criticism have a read:

6th Sens on Cody Ceci:

"The result is a situation in which whatever pairing Ceci has been a part of this year, he’s been an anchor who has helped the Senators spend a disproportionate amount of time within its own end defending. Yet, despite the fact that he’s had a dreadful first half of the season, many fans have made a habit of defending his situation by attributing his shortcomings to having to play with so many “****ty” alternatives. In fairness to that point, Mark Borowiecki and Jared Cowen are horrendous and Patrick Wiercioch is a polarizing figure, but when essentially every member of the Ottawa Senators is worse on the ice playing alongside Cody Ceci, when do the excuses stop?"

Just because he is "young", and "local", doesn't mean he is gonna be any good. We gotta accept the fact that his ceiling is a 3-4 guy who provides next to no offence and move on.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Tom Preissing finished 15th in Norris voting in 2007
http://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/voting-2007.html

Get back to me when Ceci does that

He wasn't that good. According to that link he finished behind Ray Whitney, who isn't even a defenseman!!!

I'd love to see some of his offense from Ceci right now but Ceci has a much better set of tools than Tom Preissing ever did.

 

[Micklebot]

Tom Preissing finished 15th in Norris voting in 2007
http://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/voting-2007.html

Get back to me when Ceci does that

Good lord...

So I guess you think Preissing was better than Chara that year? Because Preissing had a higher finish in Norris voting. The truth is of the 5 guys that voted Preissing for Norris, I'm willing to bet they were either Ottawa homer media, or didn't actually watch him play and went by his +/-.

Heck, he even finished ahead of Phillps, Redden, and Volchenkov who were all by far a better players and bigger parts of the team at that point, and it's not even close. You are literally using a prime example of why media voting for the Norris is flawed, as proof that Preissing was a good player... It's like Carlyle getting a vote for the Jack Adams last year when the leafs imploded.

 

[Othello*]

I wanted Maatta.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

None of them were unexpected though.Phillips was resigned to provide some veteran stability from the bottom 4 ,maybe a year too long .But nothing too bad .Neil got 4 years because the Rangers had offered 3 at almost 3 mil per.

Greening looked every bit the part of a solid top 9 forward.Then he fell off a cliff.

Cowen and Wiercioch were signed in hopes they would grow into top 4 guys ,after showing some growth .They have now since failed .

Boro iam not too sure why people would be upset at signing a decent 6/7 defender at 1.2 mil

9mm 3 years at 4 mil ,15 to 20 goal potential .Multi use forward ,plays both wings,can PK PP .And provide decent veteran support for a young group of forwards.Last season he provided solid production in Macather,s absense,and was a big part of the teams big run .

I am really confused as the reasoning to keeping Phillips and Neil to a lesser extent is to provide a "veteran" presence. I mean the rest of our players aren't kids anymore. They are in their mid to late 20's.

Greening had a year where he leetched off of Spezza. I think anyone who followed the team closely knew that. They should have given him the same "prove that you can do it again" kind of year like they are doing Hoffman.

I don't think I am that upset at the signing of Boro, I'm more perplexed at his deployment. That's on the coach though.

With regards to Michalek, I think we are so accustomed to mediocrity that the Michalek signing is "ok" in our minds. I am guilty of that myself as for the first time I was happy that he was coming back into the lineup after missing time for his injury.

 

[topshelf15]

Since many Sens fans are blind to Cody Ceci criticism have a read:

6th Sens on Cody Ceci:

"The result is a situation in which whatever pairing Ceci has been a part of this year, he’s been an anchor who has helped the Senators spend a disproportionate amount of time within its own end defending. Yet, despite the fact that he’s had a dreadful first half of the season, many fans have made a habit of defending his situation by attributing his shortcomings to having to play with so many “****ty†alternatives. In fairness to that point, Mark Borowiecki and Jared Cowen are horrendous and Patrick Wiercioch is a polarizing figure, but when essentially every member of the Ottawa Senators is worse on the ice playing alongside Cody Ceci, when do the excuses stop?"

Just because he is "young", and "local", doesn't mean he is gonna be any good. We gotta accept the fact that his ceiling is a 3-4 guy who provides next to no offence and move on. Preissing is not a horrible comparison, its actually not that bad of a comparison.

Dont believe everything you read dude,there are problems on the defense .Ceci isnt one of them ,we have one nhl capable LH defender.And for most all of this season one of our best defensive LW based on QOC has been Mike Hoffman .You really should look more at the roster

 

[topshelf15]

I am really confused as the reasoning to keeping Phillips and Neil to a lesser extent is to provide a "veteran" presence. I mean the rest of our players aren't kids anymore. They are in their mid to late 20's.

Greening had a year where he leetched off of Spezza. I think anyone who followed the team closely knew that. They should have given him the same "prove that you can do it again" kind of year like they are doing Hoffman.

I don't think I am that upset at the signing of Boro, I'm more perplexed at his deployment. That's on the coach though.

With regards to Michalek, I think we are so accustomed to mediocrity that the Michalek signing is "ok" in our minds. I am guilty of that myself as for the first time I was happy that he was coming back into the lineup after missing time for his injury.

I think its because of this exact contract ,management hasnt rushed to lock down our kids .
As far as Phillips goes i was kinda on the fence,i could understand the reasoning .Cowen had missed alot of time ,and Wiercioch was far from a sure thing .So keeping him around seems reasonable .

9mm was kinda the same deal for as Phillips ,he was there to provide some depth and insulation .Again i would have prefered 2 years ,but 3 i dont see it as that big a deal

 

[Micklebot]

On pace for 23Pts averaging under 19 minutes a game

On a good team he's a bottom pair defenseman

He's at a pace of 21 ES pts per 82 games (19 5v5 pts), which is actually pretty good. 19 5V5 pts would have ranked 35th among dmen last year.

Karlsson getting all the RD PP toi restricts the opportunity that Ceci has to put up points, but it doesn't change how good he is. He ranked 78th in pts/60 (>300 mins) last year and is currently 44th in pts/60 this year (>100 mins).

There is nothing about his offensive production that suggest bottom pair D. His defensive game might not be at a level to stay in the top 4 depending on how deep this "good team" is, but offensively he's been doing quite well in the mins he gets production wise.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Ceci's been very good the last 10 games or so.

As people keep stating, he needs an NHL caliber partner. It is moronic that Murray brought him into NHL and just made him play with borderline-AHL players.

 

[topshelf15]

Ceci's been very good the last 10 games or so.

As people keep stating, he needs an NHL caliber partner. It is moronic that Murray brought him into NHL and just made him play with borderline-AHL players.

Well it was hoped that would develop into nhl defenders,the biggest issue is getting a veteran nhl dman nowadays that really compounds the problem

 

[Othello*]

Well it was hoped that would develop into nhl defenders,the biggest issue is getting a veteran nhl dman nowadays that really compounds the problem

Didn't you suggest that Phillips was the supposed to be the veteran dman?

 

[topshelf15]

He's at a pace of 21 ES pts per 82 games (19 5v5 pts), which is actually pretty good. 19 5V5 pts would have ranked 35th among dmen last year.

Karlsson getting all the RD PP toi restricts the opportunity that Ceci has to put up points, but it doesn't change how good he is. He ranked 78th in pts/60 (>300 mins) last year and is currently 44th in pts/60 this year (>100 mins).

There is nothing about his offensive production that suggest bottom pair D. His defensive game might not be at a level to stay in the top 4 depending on how deep this "good team" is, but offensively he's been doing quite well in the mins he gets production wise.

Him with Methot would be a dream,i still see him with Doughty lite ,potential.He has good size ,mobilty,good offensive instincts .His defensive game ,is very coachable with better support on his pairing .Not too hard to see him as a solid two way 35 to 40 point defender

 

[Sens]

He's at a pace of 21 ES pts per 82 games (19 5v5 pts), which is actually pretty good. 19 5V5 pts would have ranked 35th among dmen last year.

Karlsson getting all the RD PP toi restricts the opportunity that Ceci has to put up points, but it doesn't change how good he is. He ranked 78th in pts/60 (>300 mins) last year and is currently 44th in pts/60 this year (>100 mins).

There is nothing about his offensive production that suggest bottom pair D. His defensive game might not be at a level to stay in the top 4 depending on how deep this "good team" is, but offensively he's been doing quite well in the mins he gets production wise.

He's not getting the ice time because he's not trusted... Reason why EK needs to play 30 a night

 

[topshelf15]

Didn't you suggest that Phillips was the supposed to be the veteran dman?

Sure ,Phillips was decent covering for Methot .But it was painfully obvious he wasnt a top pairing guy and broke down early .Him being part of the mix with Cowen and Wiercioch for the 2nd pairing ,would have suited him far better

 

[Micklebot]

I am really confused as the reasoning to keeping Phillips and Neil to a lesser extent is to provide a "veteran" presence. I mean the rest of our players aren't kids anymore. They are in their mid to late 20's.

Greening had a year where he leetched off of Spezza. I think anyone who followed the team closely knew that. They should have given him the same "prove that you can do it again" kind of year like they are doing Hoffman.

I don't think I am that upset at the signing of Boro, I'm more perplexed at his deployment. That's on the coach though.

With regards to Michalek, I think we are so accustomed to mediocrity that the Michalek signing is "ok" in our minds. I am guilty of that myself as for the first time I was happy that he was coming back into the lineup after missing time for his injury.

This isn't really the case though... when he signed in 2013, his production per min away from Spezza was in line with what you'd expect from a player with his salary structure. Yes, Spezza helped his numbers, but he was still an effective 3rd liner away from him, and if he kept up his play to the level he had playing away from Spezza prior to signing that contract he'd still be on this team right now, perhaps a touch overpaid. The problem is after the 13-14 season his production absolutely tanked and he really regressed.

 

[topshelf15]

He's not getting the ice time because he's not trusted... Reason why EK needs to play 30 a night

Or maybe its because ,the entire left side of our team is a train wreck defensively.Probably also has alot to do with guys like Zsmith getting a top 6 role ,over a good offense but challenged defensive player like Prince.Seriously dude look at the roster and pay attention specifically to the left side of our team

 

[Micklebot]

He's not getting the ice time because he's not trusted... Reason why EK needs to play 30 a night

On the PP? No, he's not getting PP time because Karlsson is capable of playing the full 2 mins, and frankly probably one of the best in the league at it, and we opt to play forwards at the point rather than a Dman on his off side. On a team without Karlsson, Ceci gets PP time almost guaranteed.

Keep digging though.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

This isn't really the case though... when he signed in 2013, his production per min away from Spezza was in line with what you'd expect from a player with his salary structure. Yes, Spezza helped his numbers, but he was still an effective 3rd liner away from him, and if he kept up his play to the level he had playing away from Spezza prior to signing that contract he'd still be on this team right now, perhaps a touch overpaid. The problem is after the 13-14 season his production absolutely tanked and he really regressed.

That regression was predicted by many. And agin. Story budget. Don't have the luxury to have third liners a "touch overpaid"

 

[pm88]

Ceci's been very good the last 10 games or so.

As people keep stating, he needs an NHL caliber partner. It is moronic that Murray brought him into NHL and just made him play with borderline-AHL players.

I feel bad for Ceci.. this team is asking him to do way too much out there, and we have no players that can insulate him. The only guy we have is Philipps, and he's absolute garbage. Murray needs to swing a deal for a veteran guy and soon