Erie Otters 2018-19 Season Thread

[Puckit97]

Also excellent job breaking down all of the big trades from the past season.

 

[NOA]

I know Foegle's situation was a different than most but just an example of how a team should always factor that in. Honestly I do not see Lodnia ever developing into a player of Foegle's caliber. Foegle had that drive on every shift that you do not always see from players. His stats from this past season with Charlotte are impressive for someone who played an OA year and he earned a call up to Carolina for two games. I wish Lodnia the best if he is moved but IMO he has not developed to his full potential from what we saw in his rookie year.

I have to agree that lodnia has not developed the way I anticipated following his rookie year. I do think he had a pretty good second season. He faded after trades were made because he moved to the 3rd line where Fellows and Pettit just could not provide him the same offense as the top 6.

But imo if we moved lodnia over Mcshane in the Cirelli trade..no chance Erie wins an OHL title. I know the stats would not indicate it but Erie’s success in the playoffs was about their dominant puck possession. They controlled the puck all the time.. even in the memorial cup losses vs Windsor.. we controlled the puck. Particularly in that final game, Erie dominated the puck most of it. Part of that was because of Lodnia and the 3rd line. That line didn’t score much but they controlled the pace and puck. Lodnia is underrated is my point. Wish I saw more points from him but he’s more of a complete player than I think people realize

 

[NOA]

I agree Erie got a great deal but those conditional picks in the Vilardi trade if returned would net them a total of 6 2nds and 2 3rds. Does Vilardi return next year? I doubt it but it has happened in the past a player of his caliber returned for a 19 year old season. I'd say there is 25% chance he gets sent back at some point. Strome is an example just from Erie. Now is Sambrook a player like Vilardi (I know Vilardi would not be an OA but no chance he plays an OA season) No, not even close. but Erie gave up 3 2nds and a 3rd for Kurtis Macdermid. IMO Sambrook is a more reliable dman than Macdermid. I tip my cap to Dave Brown as he has done a near perfect job as the GM since taking over. I just wish a conditional 2nd or 3rd was in that deal and he may have tried to include that for all we know and got shut down.

Okay I see your point with conditionals but if the Vilardi/Day deal in the end gets 6 seconds and 2 thirds .. how is that much more or better than Erie getting 5 seconds and 2 thirds (GUARANTEED)? I think this actually just strengthens my argument. Ultimately Vilardi is a 1st round top tier nhl pick... much better than sambrook. You have to do conditionals with him.

I’m telling you that Erie already factored that in during the trade. Which is why if you remove the conditional picks in similar big trades.. Erie netted the most by 2/3 picks. Another thing to consider? The years of the draft picks
Windsor got a 2nd in 2020, 2022 and a 3rd in 2023. So essentially 3 high end picks over the course of the 2018-2023 or the next 5 drafts.
Erie on the other hand, in the same timeframe, got all their 7 high picks from 2018-2023. And of 4 of their high end picks are from 2018-2021 compared to just 1 high end pick for Windsor in that same timeframe for their Vilardi trade

Erie did fine in the sambrook/Raddysh trade. And they already factored in him returning. He’s not getting you 3 conditionals like Vilardi anyways.. at most a team might throw in 1 second and 1 third but even that is a lot..
like I said, just assume that Raddysh part of the deal was 3/4 high end picks and Fowler. That means that sambrook got 3/4 high end picks on his own.. that’s good. Very good. You also must consider that you aren’t going to get as much when you do package deals. But we don’t know what the market was for sambrook etc. ..we know Erie had their hand forced on Raddysh..

I would have loved an extra pick or two but I think Erie did a hell of a job at getting picks in the near future and not in 2025.
They managed to get 2nds (a major major need) from 2019-2024.. 1 in each draft. Which was nice. And they managed to get a 3rd in 2018 to help with this immediate draft. I would rather have 4 high end picks from 2018-2021 over 5 high end picks from like 2020-2024. We got mostly 2nd round picks and got them all spread out to fill the cupboards again. It was a good trade. And if Fowler turns into a stud, then the extra year of sambrook is laughable because Erie will win the trade (especially since SSM didn’t win an OHL title)

 

[OU812]

Saw a couple of Erie players in Carnevale yesterday. I know you can’t put much into these games but neither looked very good. Hoffman was -4 during the short time I watched. Got stick checked at the blue line over and over. Seemed to get very frustrated very easly. Turned over the puck way too much given the competition. Certainly didn’t play like he did at prospect camp.

Again it’s early but IMHO saw some worrisome things.

 

[OHL4Life]

Saw a couple of Erie players in Carnevale yesterday. I know you can’t put much into these games but neither looked very good. Hoffman was -4 during the short time I watched. Got stick checked at the blue line over and over. Seemed to get very frustrated very easly. Turned over the puck way too much given the competition. Certainly didn’t play like he did at prospect camp.

Again it’s early but IMHO saw some worrisome things.

its also a meaningless summer hockey league that has no true baring on anything. I’m pretty sure I can find a random summer hockey gsme we’re a single OHL player was below average, and no one ran to a message board to tell the world. I’m not sure it has anything to do with anything

 

[buzzworthy]

Does anyone know anything about Alexander? Any Otter insiders think he may report?

 

[Puckit97]

Does anyone know anything about Alexander? Any Otter insiders think he may report?

I don’t have any inside info but he was at rookie camp which is a good sign he is at least giving Erie a chance.

Also wonder if there is any truth to the Cuylle to Erie rumors. Would be great if true but I don’t see how Erie has the assets to get him unless they empty the draft pick cupboards they recouped.

 

[EON]

What would that cost, probably 3 2nds and 2 3rds or so? Almost all of the picks Erie got for Raddysh and Sambrook. Wouldn't really make sense unless they plan on selling Lodnia this offseason to recoup some of that, and then hoping Maksimovich improves to stockpile more picks by moving him at the deadline. As much as I'd like to have another talented '02 in the fold I don't see how that fits.

 

[Puckit97]

What would that cost, probably 3 2nds and 2 3rds or so? Almost all of the picks Erie got for Raddysh and Sambrook. Wouldn't really make sense unless they plan on selling Lodnia this offseason to recoup some of that, and then hoping Maksimovich improves to stockpile more picks by moving him at the deadline. As much as I'd like to have another talented '02 in the fold I don't see how that fits.

Would have to think that would be the asking price. Domi went for 3 2nds to London but that was 6 years ago already.
If they move Lodnia for two 2nds and a 3rd maybe they could make it work. Would definitely give Erie another chance for long term success like the previous era.

 

[Puckit97]

What would that cost, probably 3 2nds and 2 3rds or so? Almost all of the picks Erie got for Raddysh and Sambrook. Wouldn't really make sense unless they plan on selling Lodnia this offseason to recoup some of that, and then hoping Maksimovich improves to stockpile more picks by moving him at the deadline. As much as I'd like to have another talented '02 in the fold I don't see how that fits.

And as I remember now Domi would only play for London which forced Kingston into making a deal for less. Cuylle seems interested in other teams around the league and not just Erie. That would make the price even higher to get him.

 

[NOA]

And as I remember now Domi would only play for London which forced Kingston into making a deal for less. Cuylle seems interested in other teams around the league and not just Erie. That would make the price even higher to get him.

What would that cost, probably 3 2nds and 2 3rds or so? Almost all of the picks Erie got for Raddysh and Sambrook. Wouldn't really make sense unless they plan on selling Lodnia this offseason to recoup some of that, and then hoping Maksimovich improves to stockpile more picks by moving him at the deadline. As much as I'd like to have another talented '02 in the fold I don't see how that fits.

Would never happen in my opinion. I don’t even think erie is picking up the phone much more than 1 time. And that 1 time would simply be to see the price and do their due diligence
It makes almost 0 sense for them. I understand where Cuylle was picked and how good he is. But unless he’s putting erie on a short list of 3-5 times, bringing the price down, Erie can’t afford him. Technically we do have the picks to get him but like EON said, that would literally require us to turn over all of or close to all of the Raddysh/Sambrook picks we just got. Not smart. Those picks were difficult to get and even if traded lodnia/Mak this year, we aren’t getting the same capital we got for the Raddysh trade.
Currently Erie is back to almost “normal” with their cupboards. Just missing a few 3rds. They managed to restock the 2nds. We still could use 4-6 higher picks over the next 5 drafts or so. And that’s where Lodnia/Mak come in. Have we not listened to Dave Brown say in interviews that they want to be a successful and strong organization? They are on their way to proving that. As brown said though, that requires sustainability. And the only way you can achieve that long term, using Browns words (and most people’s opinion) is through the draft. You thus need high picks. We have managed to survive with low pick capital for 4-5 straight years. But that won’t be sustainable. This year is a prime example.. consider our success if we still had McShane and Neumann all season.

Brown and the owners are trying to be a top tier organization. That is competing most years, not necessarily for titles every year but at least in the middle of the pack. You need draft picks to do that. Currently we could still use more if we want to have strong cupboards again in case we need to make big adds in 2-3 years for a run but if not so we add top end talent in future drafts. We can’t afford to go backwards again right now..

 

[ZinErie]

Cuylle isn't a rental. You'd have him for 4 seasons. I'd do the trade in a heartbeat IF the price doesn't get too exorbitant. I trust Dave Brown to make the decision.

 

[NOA]

Cuylle isn't a rental. You'd have him for 4 seasons. I'd do the trade in a heartbeat IF the price doesn't get too exorbitant. I trust Dave Brown to make the decision.

That’s not the point.

Currently Erie is still behind with picks. And Cuylle would probably cost.. let’s just throw out a fair average price.. about 3 seconds and 2/3 thirds. Let’s say only 3 seconds and 2 thirds. So that would put Erie back to square 1 with picks. Let’s assume we then moved lodnia - he might go for 2 seconds and 1 third. And Mak as an OA.. let’s say 1 second and 1 third. So now you trade both of those guys and recouped the Cuylle picks.
The problem is Erie would STILL be behind the average high pick count. There would still be a concern with picks.
I trust Dave Brown too, which is why I don’t see any chance we get him. He’s preached for years about not trading like this. Bassin never properly managed picks but Brown is way more cognizant of it.
I don’t care if we get him for 4 years. I would rather we be sustainable and not be a basement team again .. so we need to continue to improve our high draft capital. If we move lodnia/Mak this year, all the sudden we have that capital again. Our focus should instead be on signing Ryan Alexander. He easily could be that top 6 forward we have for 4 years and guess what?? He will only cost the 1 third round pick we used on him.. not 5/6 picks.

 

[OU812]

Personally I think most here are making too much assumption that Cuylle would live up to expectations.
IHMO he is doing the equivalent of a tantrum stomping his feet saying no no no I won’t go there.
I know that is a stretch but I don’t think he warrants the consideration yet. I was at the NYR jr A camp and he was unimpressive. Mind you he could have been holding back, who knows, but to be that similar to all the others doesn’t bode will with me that he will bring added value.

Just my opinion based on what I saw and have seen in his games last year (admittedly not a lot, but first impressions tend to hold)

In the end... he is not coming here.

 

[NOA]

Personally I think most here are making too much assumption that Cuylle would live up to expectations.
IHMO he is doing the equivalent of a tantrum stomping his feet saying no no no I won’t go there.
I know that is a stretch but I don’t think he warrants the consideration yet. I was at the NYR jr A camp and he was unimpressive. Mind you he could have been holding back, who knows, but to be that similar to all the others doesn’t bode will with me that he will bring added value.

Just my opinion based on what I saw and have seen in his games last year (admittedly not a lot, but first impressions tend to hold)

In the end... he is not coming here.

I’ll agree with this.
He’s a big forward that easily could have dominated because of his size at 15-16 years old. I’ve never seen him play though so I can’t comment too much.
But I especially agree with the attitude thing. Trying to get his way. At the same time if I was a player coming into the league, there would probably only be 2 teams I would be very unhappy with - Peterborough and Sudbury. For numerous reasons. There are other teams too but those two teams have the most issues for me.
Erie was the same way years ago. I do believe players should give these teams chances. But if Cuylle is basically like “I’ll go to 15/16 teams.. just not the Pete’s, etc..” I cant blame him as much. It’s the people like Domi that demand 1 team or 2/3 teams that I can’t stand.. because there are at least 8-10 solid to great organizations

 

[Finster8]

Lodnia and Maksimovich would give you 3-2nds and 2-3rds. Saginaw needs two players of that caliber and if Perfetti goes defective then we have our picks. Still with a full cupboard of picks for the future. Regardless it would be a good idea for both teams. Erie gets picks Spirit get some needed depth at forward.

 

[Puckit97]

I’ll agree with this.
He’s a big forward that easily could have dominated because of his size at 15-16 years old. I’ve never seen him play though so I can’t comment too much.
But I especially agree with the attitude thing. Trying to get his way. At the same time if I was a player coming into the league, there would probably only be 2 teams I would be very unhappy with - Peterborough and Sudbury. For numerous reasons. There are other teams too but those two teams have the most issues for me.
Erie was the same way years ago. I do believe players should give these teams chances. But if Cuylle is basically like “I’ll go to 15/16 teams.. just not the Pete’s, etc..” I cant blame him as much. It’s the people like Domi that demand 1 team or 2/3 teams that I can’t stand.. because there are at least 8-10 solid to great organizations

I always try to see it from both sides. Like you said it was frustrating when Erie was a destination no one wanted. On the other hand though these are kids that are attempting to develop into NHL players in the most critical years. If where they play is going to dictate their future success in the sport I get that too.
It’s no secret why no one says no to London other than no interest in the league. Develop the players and that will change the organization.

 

[Puckit97]

That’s not the point.

Currently Erie is still behind with picks. And Cuylle would probably cost.. let’s just throw out a fair average price.. about 3 seconds and 2/3 thirds. Let’s say only 3 seconds and 2 thirds. So that would put Erie back to square 1 with picks. Let’s assume we then moved lodnia - he might go for 2 seconds and 1 third. And Mak as an OA.. let’s say 1 second and 1 third. So now you trade both of those guys and recouped the Cuylle picks.
The problem is Erie would STILL be behind the average high pick count. There would still be a concern with picks.
I trust Dave Brown too, which is why I don’t see any chance we get him. He’s preached for years about not trading like this. Bassin never properly managed picks but Brown is way more cognizant of it.
I don’t care if we get him for 4 years. I would rather we be sustainable and not be a basement team again .. so we need to continue to improve our high draft capital. If we move lodnia/Mak this year, all the sudden we have that capital again. Our focus should instead be on signing Ryan Alexander. He easily could be that top 6 forward we have for 4 years and guess what?? He will only cost the 1 third round pick we used on him.. not 5/6 picks.

If Erie can get enough picks for Lodnia I think it’s a no brainer to make the trade. However looking at Logan Brown, 6th overall and traded to Windsor for 3 2nds, 2 3rds, and a 14th. No way Erie gets that’s return from Lodnia.
Having Cuylle would be huge but over paying for him could hurt their ability to make any trades when they are contenders again like you said.

 

[Puckit97]

Would never happen in my opinion. I don’t even think erie is picking up the phone much more than 1 time. And that 1 time would simply be to see the price and do their due diligence
It makes almost 0 sense for them. I understand where Cuylle was picked and how good he is. But unless he’s putting erie on a short list of 3-5 times, bringing the price down, Erie can’t afford him. Technically we do have the picks to get him but like EON said, that would literally require us to turn over all of or close to all of the Raddysh/Sambrook picks we just got. Not smart. Those picks were difficult to get and even if traded lodnia/Mak this year, we aren’t getting the same capital we got for the Raddysh trade.
Currently Erie is back to almost “normal” with their cupboards. Just missing a few 3rds. They managed to restock the 2nds. We still could use 4-6 higher picks over the next 5 drafts or so. And that’s where Lodnia/Mak come in. Have we not listened to Dave Brown say in interviews that they want to be a successful and strong organization? They are on their way to proving that. As brown said though, that requires sustainability. And the only way you can achieve that long term, using Browns words (and most people’s opinion) is through the draft. You thus need high picks. We have managed to survive with low pick capital for 4-5 straight years. But that won’t be sustainable. This year is a prime example.. consider our success if we still had McShane and Neumann all season.

Brown and the owners are trying to be a top tier organization. That is competing most years, not necessarily for titles every year but at least in the middle of the pack. You need draft picks to do that. Currently we could still use more if we want to have strong cupboards again in case we need to make big adds in 2-3 years for a run but if not so we add top end talent in future drafts. We can’t afford to go backwards again right now..

Although he would have been traded anyway I believe Neumann requested a trade.

 

[Puckit97]

Lodnia and Maksimovich would give you 3-2nds and 2-3rds. Saginaw needs two players of that caliber and if Perfetti goes defective then we have our picks. Still with a full cupboard of picks for the future. Regardless it would be a good idea for both teams. Erie gets picks Spirit get some needed depth at forward.

Lodnia yes will be traded not sure about KMak. I think others will agree Erie would rather have him be their leader next season. Only way Erie moves him is if he asks/approves of the trade.

 

[NOA]

Lodnia yes will be traded not sure about KMak. I think others will agree Erie would rather have him be their leader next season. Only way Erie moves him is if he asks/approves of the trade.

I don’t see Mak moved either for the exact reasons you state. This team should be a bit better and more consistent, especially if they have Mak all year. And as far as I’m concerned that’s the next stage in the rebuild.
I don’t think Mak has any say in what we do with him though, other than if he demands the trade. Lodnia will be gone it’s just a matter of when. And I would imagine he gets the team 3-4 picks. Potentially a player. That would put Erie back to fully normal restocked cupboards. Mak could give us a few extra picks but what is the true market for him? Again, if I’m erie I at least throw out the idea of trading him all year. See what the value is. Look at Sherwood, Luchuck, and Miletic last year. All went for hefty prices as OA. If I’m erie, unless I get more than 2 high picks for him.. I’m not moving him. But if a team is willing to cough up 2 seconds and 1 third or more (my minimum price to move him) then I probably would.
The only issue with Mak over someone like Lodnia is he takes up an OA spot. But he should be one of the best OAs in league. Massive experience, durable player, and top 6 forward who can play any role and with any player

 

[EON]

I'm on the fence about Maksimovich. If he stays consistent as a 70-75 point guy I might hold on to him and have him lead the team. If he explodes like Luchuk did last season I think I would prefer to move him as Erie could use the extra assets. Lodnia is definitely gone though.

My A+ offseason would be to move Poddubnyi for whatever picks can be had, land a good import forward, and sign Alexander (Schroeder seems unlikely at this point since he didn't come to rookie camp). I trust Brown to make the right moves.

 

[NOA]

I'm on the fence about Maksimovich. If he stays consistent as a 70-75 point guy I might hold on to him and have him lead the team. If he explodes like Luchuk did last season I think I would prefer to move him as Erie could use the extra assets. Lodnia is definitely gone though.

My A+ offseason would be to move Poddubnyi for whatever picks can be had, land a good import forward, and sign Alexander (Schroeder seems unlikely at this point since he didn't come to rookie camp). I trust Brown to make the right moves.

That’s the offseason they need.

Here’s a question for you EON? Do you just base the decision on whatever other teams offer for Mak?
Like if you are Dave Brown do you have this set value in mind that dictates whether or not you move him?
Because like I said, if I can get 2 seconds and 1 third (and assuming these draft picks are in the 2019-2022ish range) then I probably move him. That’s a pretty good get for him. Anything less and no chance I move him. And if I can get more..? Well then I move him in a heartbeat. But Brown probably has this value/price in mind.. “unless we can get 2 seconds+ .. I’m not moving him”

 

[Puckit97]

That’s the offseason they need.

Here’s a question for you EON? Do you just base the decision on whatever other teams offer for Mak?
Like if you are Dave Brown do you have this set value in mind that dictates whether or not you move him?
Because like I said, if I can get 2 seconds and 1 third (and assuming these draft picks are in the 2019-2022ish range) then I probably move him. That’s a pretty good get for him. Anything less and no chance I move him. And if I can get more..? Well then I move him in a heartbeat. But Brown probably has this value/price in mind.. “unless we can get 2 seconds+ .. I’m not moving him”

I agree with you there. Only move him if the deal is right and he approves of it. He is to valuable of a leader to not get the picks back.

 

[Puckit97]

I'm on the fence about Maksimovich. If he stays consistent as a 70-75 point guy I might hold on to him and have him lead the team. If he explodes like Luchuk did last season I think I would prefer to move him as Erie could use the extra assets. Lodnia is definitely gone though.

My A+ offseason would be to move Poddubnyi for whatever picks can be had, land a good import forward, and sign Alexander (Schroeder seems unlikely at this point since he didn't come to rookie camp). I trust Brown to make the right moves.

I’m not sure what to think about Gpod/Patry. IMO Gpod has more potential and is much better offensively while Patry is better defensively. I agree they seem to be favoring Patry as the season played out but I really think Gpod is the better player on the ice. Off the ice who knows, maybe something has happened that I’m not aware of.

Any word on potential targets in the Import draft? Obviously Erie will be parting ways with one of the two before the draft.