Enstrom finding his game!!

[garret9]

I never mentioned Enstrom as being uniquely bad. We had several bad players in that playoff series and you continue to be unable to admit that Enstrom was one of them, even though a poster just provided stats that his corsi that series was below his career average, which should appease your sample size argument. The topic was already on Enstrom, I didn’t single him out.

Given that, why can’t you admit Enstrom had a bad playoffs when he performed well below his career averages?

And I never said that you did...
I joined in a conversation where I had three different posters quoted in my initial post. I added information on what has been a very poor narrative.

I have pretty clearly pointed out that he played poorly... is that not obvious by saying he was slightly above average on a poor performing team? It should be inherent by that...

However, it's small sample and poor team performance however makes it difficult to say specifically how much confounding factors played a role in his poor performance. I'd be more shocked that Enstrom did not play like how he has been the last little while (strong shot/scoringchance/xgoal differentials but weak scoring).

You are arguing against an argument I've never made.

 

[Jets2point0]

And I never said that you did...
I joined in a conversation where I had three different posters quoted in my initial post. I added information on what has been a very poor narrative.

I have pretty clearly pointed out that he played poorly... is that not obvious by saying he was slightly above average on a poor performing team? It should be inherent by that...

However, it's small sample and poor team performance however makes it difficult to say specifically how much confounding factors played a role in his poor performance. I'd be more shocked that Enstrom did not play like how he has been the last little while (strong shot/scoringchance/xgoal differentials but weak scoring).

You are arguing against an argument I've never made.

And we’ll leave it at that

 

[csk]

Toby got rolled over the last time we made the playoffs. Couple years later he is a fraction of that player he once was. I have little faith in 39 surviving the playoffs, unless very sheltered minutes.

Hard to take this seriously, because 39 was our best dman in that series.

 

[truck]

And I never said that you did...
I joined in a conversation where I had three different posters quoted in my initial post. I added information on what has been a very poor narrative.

I have pretty clearly pointed out that he played poorly... is that not obvious by saying he was slightly above average on a poor performing team? It should be inherent by that...

However, it's small sample and poor team performance however makes it difficult to say specifically how much confounding factors played a role in his poor performance. I'd be more shocked that Enstrom did not play like how he has been the last little while (strong shot/scoringchance/xgoal differentials but weak scoring).

You are arguing against an argument I've never made.

Only somewhat related: It is pretty amazing how Toby has reinvented his game. He was a major offensive contributor with multiple 50 point seasons, but he's pretty much all defense at this point. He's was the Jets best shot suppressor for a good 3 to 4 years.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Yeah, Toby. Toby had a broken wing supposedly during that series so I think he deserves a bit of a pass. Stats be damned, he got totally manhandled during that series. Just go back and watch a game.

The interesting thing for me about the Garret stats is that it highlights something that I was pissed about during that offseason. Our best forward was Frolik and we let him walk over $250k, while one of the worst was Stafford who we re-signed and overpaid by $1/2 million to $1 million.

 

[bumblebeeman]

Yeah, Toby. Toby had a broken wing supposedly during that series so I think he deserves a bit of a pass. Stats be damned, he got totally manhandled during that series. Just go back and watch a game.

The interesting thing for me about the Garret stats is that it highlights something that I was pissed about during that offseason. Our best forward was Frolik and we let him walk over $250k, while one of the worst was Stafford who we re-signed and overpaid by $1/2 million to $1 million.

I'm pretty sure the Jets tried to sign Frolik, and made him a good offer but he just didn't want to play in Winnipeg. Such a shame he could have really helped the Jets the past few years.

 

[garret9]

Only somewhat related: It is pretty amazing how Toby has reinvented his game. He was a major offensive contributor with multiple 50 point seasons, but he's pretty much all defense at this point. He's was the Jets best shot suppressor for a good 3 to 4 years.

It's actually a fairly common transition, although Enstrom has accomplished it better than most.

This is a weighted WOWY xGoal metric using a slightly superior relTM algorithm than David Johnson's old one, and an xGoal that has yet to be tested relative to Corsica's or DTMAH's:

Obviously the offensive component lacks scoring, but the defensive impact here should not be too far off from what a WAR component would be like.

 

[Adam da bomb]

It's actually a fairly common transition, although Enstrom has accomplished it better than most.

This is a weighted WOWY xGoal metric using a slightly superior relTM algorithm than David Johnson's old one, and an xGoal that has yet to be tested relative to Corsica's or DTMAH's:

Obviously the offensive component lacks scoring, but the defensive impact here should not be too far off from what a WAR component would be like.

Him and his linemate Buff. Both became more Defensive D.

 

[Upperdeckjet]

I have been hard on Toby in the past and yes it does stem from that playoff performance. I begrudgingly admit that he has been good when he has been playing this season. I will not go on about him being susceptible to injuries and I certainly am not in the camp of giving him any sort of contract extension unless it's league minimum. My reason being that playoff hockey is a whole nother kind of beast. I do not believe he will be effective and we need someone who will be able to take the pounding that is to come.

I do believe we need to introduce a new left D into the lineup next year. I understand he has his fans and that's great, but for me, I think it will be time for Toby to move on.

 

[garret9]

Playoff hockey is still hockey.

 

[SUX2BU]

And Toby will be there for sure ............

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I have been hard on Toby in the past and yes it does stem from that playoff performance. I begrudgingly admit that he has been good when he has been playing this season. I will not go on about him being susceptible to injuries and I certainly am not in the camp of giving him any sort of contract extension unless it's league minimum. My reason being that playoff hockey is a whole nother kind of beast. I do not believe he will be effective and we need someone who will be able to take the pounding that is to come.

I do believe we need to introduce a new left D into the lineup next year. I understand he has his fans and that's great, but for me, I think it will be time for Toby to move on.

You are still ignoring the fact that he had a serious injury - going into that playoff!!!!

I can't say how well or how poorly he might have fared in that series if healthy but I can say; 1)his poor play is overstated - as demonstrated by Garrett a couple of days ago. 2) He would have played better if he had been able to use 2 arms.

Assessing him based on that series is simply ridiculous.

If you want to make the point that his smaller body is more injury prone, that is a different story. He may only make it halfway through our playoff run but there is no reason not to expect him to play well when healthy.

IMO, he should not have been playing in that series at all. But we didn't have any depth. There really was no one else.

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

Being average out of a bunch of bad players makes you good now? Enstrom played poorly, as did the rest of them team. Just because everyone else got exploited doesn’t mean Enstrom didnt either

When someone says Enstrom had a bad playoffs, instead of trying to show BUT SO DID EVERYONE ELSE, you can just agree

Stop blaming Enstrom for the series loss and making false statements that his game has regressed to the point he is a bad player now, and then we can find some middle ground. This is directed at any HF Jets fan who blindly thinks that Enstrom was the worst Jet during that PO round with Ducks or is a poor player now.
When you single out one player that played badly BUT was better than half the team then that poster is a HOMER.

 

[Jets2point0]

Stop blaming Enstrom for the series loss and making false statements that his game has regressed to the point he is a bad player now, and then we can find some middle ground. This is directed at any HF Jets fan who blindly thinks that Enstrom was the worst Jet during that PO round with Ducks or is a poor player now.
When you single out one player that played badly BUT was better than half the team then that poster is a HOMER.

Re-hashing old arguments?

Do me two favours. Show me where I blamed the series loss on Enstrom, and comprehend that Enstrom wasnt singled out lol, the topic was already on Enstrom. Get over it and move on

Also, how does criticizing a member of your home team make you a homer wouldnt that be the opposite?

Only safe assumption here is that you’re 10 years old with that username

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

I get tired of continual bias of Enstrom . He is a small skilled player so a poster so idiot poster hallucinates problems with him to fit narrative. NOW that is OLD and tiring to continually see.
The fact you make assumptions of age based on a user name just proves your opinion doesn't matter. I like that personal attack on me though, shows what a douche bag you are.