Ehlers vs. Rantanen

Who would you rather have?


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    181

QuietContrarian

Registered User
May 28, 2008
8,260
3,083
Pts for Players with less than 17avg.toi.

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Im sure if Ehlers played Rantanen's minutes plus pp1, and had his Ozone starts, he would be at around the same pts totals.

So, I dont agree Rantanen is a tier above in any way shape or form.
 
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Puck Dogg

Puck life
Mar 13, 2006
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Rantanen scored 70 points, which is last done by a Finn when Selanne was active. It's enough for me to go for Rantanen.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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Pts for Players with less than 17avg.toi.

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Im sure if Ehlers played Rantanen's minutes plus pp1, and had his Ozone starts, he would be at around the same pts totals.

So, I dont agree Rantanen is a tier above in any way shape or form.

But that's not how it works when we see high end forwards go from playing 16+ to 18+ minutes a game. Time and time again we see that when that happens the /game #s remain pretty steady and it is the /60 #s that fluctuate drastically. Mikko gets plenty of opportunities, but his line is also the only thing teams strategize against when playing us. They throw everything they have at slowing the top line down and just can't.

So if Mikko got to run his own line he'd have a much easier time taking advantage of the lesser defenders that he rarely sees now...plus he's always thrived when he can have the puck on his stick for longer than he does playing with god-mode-MacKinnon.
 

QuietContrarian

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May 28, 2008
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But that's not how it works when we see high end forwards go from playing 16+ to 18+ minutes a game. Time and time again we see that when that happens the /game #s remain pretty steady and it is the /60 #s that fluctuate drastically. Mikko gets plenty of opportunities, but his line is also the only thing teams strategize against when playing us. They throw everything they have at slowing the top line down and just can't.

So if Mikko got to run his own line he'd have a much easier time taking advantage of the lesser defenders that he rarely sees now...plus he's always thrived when he can have the puck on his stick for longer than he does playing with god-mode-MacKinnon.


Well Ehlers had more toi last season and still topped those charts.

Just for under 18mins instead.

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Im not saying Rantanen is not good, im saying he is most definitely not a tier above Ehlers.
DashingDane also losted a few valid arguments.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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I don't think he's a tier ahead as a talent or will be a tier ahead when their careers end, but would you agree that Mikko's season this year is a cut above?
 
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Hulide

Registered User
Jul 12, 2017
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I don't think he's a tier ahead as a talent or will be a tier ahead when their careers end, but would you agree that Mikko's season this year is a cut above?
:thumbu: a little cut above :nod: this year.....
 

Connor McConnor

Registered User
Nov 22, 2017
5,243
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Ehlers is definitely not my favorite, though a very good player.

I don’t think Rantanen is on the same tier as ehlers, Nylander, pastrnak, draisatl and the likes, and people talking about him like he’s some kind of superstar makes him overrated IMO.

Ehlers and Nylander are on similar levels even though I'd take Nylander long-term. Neither are even that close to Drai/Pastrnak. And Rantanen falls somewhere in between.
 

Narow

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Nov 11, 2016
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Pts for Players with less than 17avg.toi.

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Im sure if Ehlers played Rantanen's minutes plus pp1, and had his Ozone starts, he would be at around the same pts totals.

So, I dont agree Rantanen is a tier above in any way shape or form.
What was ehlers ozone% and icetime last season ? Any close to rants current??
 

Laineux

Registered User
Aug 1, 2011
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p/60 is not a great stat. If a coach thought that the player was able to keep up the elite p/60 for more minutes then that player would get more minutes or the coach would be a damn idiot.

There's a crap ton of players who have good p/60 that I'm sure would plummet to ground if they were asked to play 21 minutes a night against top competition.
 

StatisticsAddict99

Registered User
Feb 24, 2017
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Ehlers and Nylander are on similar levels even though I'd take Nylander long-term. Neither are even that close to Drai/Pastrnak. And Rantanen falls somewhere in between.

What would make you want Nylander more long term? Ehlers has been better for the past 2 seasons and has one of the best team friendly long term contracts in the league... Either your a Leaf fan or your nuts...

Also all of Draisaitl, Pastrnak and Rantanen are in the same tier as the best secondaries to Superstars in the league but Rantanen is clearly the best out of them as this season he’s gotten over a point per game and he’s the youngest of them as well.
 

Narow

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Nov 11, 2016
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p/60 is not a great stat. If a coach thought that the player was able to keep up the elite p/60 for more minutes then that player would get more minutes or the coach would be a damn idiot.

There's a crap ton of players who have good p/60 that I'm sure would plummet to ground if they were asked to play 21 minutes a night against top competition.
I like it as a stat but you are probably right.

That said dividing production with time like that can give a better picture that simply points per game
 

QuietContrarian

Registered User
May 28, 2008
8,260
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What was ehlers ozone% and icetime last season ? Any close to rants current??


Last season, Ehlers had 17:29 mins of icetime.

55.1% Ozone starts

For Mikko this season its 57.8% and 18:42

Has Rantanen been a stable on the Avs 1st line? Because Laine and Ehlers have both arguably been the 2 most rotated players on the Jets.
These past couple seasons, and they seem to produce no matter what line, and no matter if they play 12 or 20 mins. but they have both had several games in the below 14 mins category this season and still produced.

P60 isn't always good, but when you see the same two very young players top it twice in a row, and all evidence shows that they score the more ice they get, even against tougher competition.

I mean ypu just have to look at them play to see they are elite.
 
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Cotton

Registered User
May 13, 2013
9,120
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Pasta & Leon are both a notch above the Mikko/Ehlers/Nylander/Marner tier for me, at least for now. That second tier could certainly close the gap, but atm I don't think they will

First two NHL seasons (Rookie+Sophomore)

Marner 148 38 82 120
Rantanen 145 45 68 113
Nylander 152 36 76 112
Ehlers 154 40 62 102
Draisaitl 109 21 39 60
Pastrnak 97 25 28 53

Or if you look at just the past two seasons;

Pasta 144 61 77 138 (Years 3 & 4)
Leon 148 51 87 138 (Years 3 & 4)
Marn 148 38 82 120 (Years 1 & 2)
Ehler 153 52 66 118 (Years 2 & 3)
Rant 145 45 68 113 (Years 1 & 2)
WNy 152 36 76 112 (Years 1 & 2)

I’d say their all on the same tier.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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First two NHL seasons (Rookie+Sophomore)

Marner 148 38 82 120
Rantanen 145 45 68 113
Nylander 152 36 76 112
Ehlers 154 40 62 102
Draisaitl 109 21 39 60
Pastrnak 97 25 28 53

Or if you look at just the past two seasons;

Pasta 144 61 77 138 (Years 3 & 4)
Leon 148 51 87 138 (Years 3 & 4)
Marn 148 38 82 120 (Years 1 & 2)
Ehler 153 52 66 118 (Years 2 & 3)
Rant 145 45 68 113 (Years 1 & 2)
WNy 152 36 76 112 (Years 1 & 2)

I’d say their all on the same tier.

Is there a point to this post? Development is not linear...or are we still arguing that Monahan > MacKinnon because he had a more productive 2nd & 3rd season?

Leon & Pasta are on a different level than these other kids, could that change? Sure, but that's never a safe bet until those kids do take that next step and stay there.
 

Cotton

Registered User
May 13, 2013
9,120
5,611
Is there a point to this post? Development is not linear...or are we still arguing that Monahan > MacKinnon because he had a more productive 2nd & 3rd season?

Leon & Pasta are on a different level than these other kids, could that change? Sure, but that's never a safe bet until those kids do take that next step and stay there.

Well yes, the point was to share an opinion. What was the point of you bringing up anyone other than the two listed in the poll? I imagine it was to share an opinion.

I doubt you’ve seen half of these kids enough to really build an informed opinion on who’s better than who, I doubt most have, so basing it upon the numbers it indicates that no, they aren’t on a different tier.

And while development isn’t linear, none of these other kids have an advantage quite as large as a McDavid, or Bergeron and Marchand to amplify their totals. Well, Rantanen has magically gone PPG in the same season Mackinnons broke out, must be coincidental:sarcasm:. Matthews has been injured this year and what you know, Nylander isn’t producing as much... also completely unrelated:sarcasm:.

So no, I completely disagree with you that they are on different tiers.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,988
19,060
w/ Renly's Peach
Well yes, the point was to share an opinion. What was the point of you bringing up anyone other than the two listed in the poll? I imagine it was to share an opinion.

I doubt you’ve seen half of these kids enough to really build an informed opinion on who’s better than who, I doubt most have, so basing it upon the numbers it indicates that no, they aren’t on a different tier.

And while development isn’t linear, none of these other kids have an advantage quite as large as a McDavid, or Bergeron and Marchand to amplify their totals. Well, Rantanen has magically gone PPG in the same season Mackinnons broke out, must be coincidental:sarcasm:. Matthews has been injured this year and what you know, Nylander isn’t producing as much... also completely unrelated:sarcasm:.

So no, I completely disagree with you that they are on different tiers.

I’ve seen less of Ehlers, but I watch the oilers specifically to watch my countryman play, Mikko plays for my favorite team, and both marner n nylander play for the NHL’s version of the Knicks...so I watch them quite often as well *shrug*
 

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