Series Talk: ECSF: New York Rangers vs. Carolina Hurricanes (NYR Lead 3-2)

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

PP chances being even doesn't mean the outcome wasn't impacted. The more these games are played 5v5, the more advantage it gives to the Hurricanes. The more penalties, the more advantage to the Rangers.

Sure, but refs not calling penalties and letting too much go is also the refs dictating the outcome of the game so it's a fine line.

 

[Ghost of Murph]

No Freddie was great last game. Made a ton of game-saving stops in the moment.

Goal 1 - He was completely screened and couldn't see Laf's shot at all. Maybe he didn't cover the net as well as possible but when you can't see the shot coming there's not a lot you can do. It was also a great shot that picked the corner

Goal 2 - This was amazing team passing play and a show of patience from the Rangers. They moved the puck up the ice beautifully and kept it away from the Canes forwards and defence allowing Laf to streak up the ice and tap in a great cross ice pass from Fox. Perfectly placed. No goalie is stopping that unless you cut down the pass

Goal 3 - He was on top of it and Aho scooped it out and put it on Kreider's stick. Literally not on him at all

Goal 4 - Crazy pinball bounce where the puck pops up in the air and there is a mad scramble in front of the net. Rebound goes to Trocheck and he slides it home amongst the chaos

Agree with you on Freddie's rebound control in that it is a bit of a weakness but in general the Canes aren't great at clearing the crease and getting those rebounds out of harms way. Like maybe he could have played goal 1 and 2 slightly better but very likely those get the same result regardless of who is in net. Game 2 not on him at all.

Sub 900 is the pickiest of pickiest as well based on there being 39 shots. Was he better than Igor? No. Igor was fantastic obviously but Freddie didn't lose them the game at all. Canes taking dumb penalties and not converting on the PP and the chances they had did.

Excellent, detailed response. People are generally too quick to just blame the goalie for a loss. You nailed last night's game right on the head. Both goalies did a great job.

 

[NYRKing]

Are they sticking with Freddy? He’s been kind of 50/50. Some pretty solid saves but not very aggressive on the second chances.

 

[pld459666]

I believe Dave Jackson explained very well why the Skjei cross check was a penalty.

You don't have to agree with it. Doesn't really matter.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Sure, but refs not calling penalties and letting too much go is also the refs dictating the outcome of the game so it's a fine line.

It definitely is, I just thing they were on the wrong side of that line yesterday

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

No. A 2OT game negates the sweep. Just reporting, I'm not making the rules.

Makes sense in a flat earth kinda way

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Makes sense in a flat earth kinda way

Listen, even if we lose 4 in a row we just don't identify that as a sweep which is a totally valid explanation for things now.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

The main issue with NHL refs for every team is that almost all of them play this game of « make up calls » from the first whistle forward. It kills any idea of consistency to allow the players know where the lines are.

 

[japhi]

Canes are obviously a great team, but they have some serious gaps that were going to get exposed in the playoffs. Not sure why anyone had them as a Cup favourite, that C group is weak. Staal is a great D zone player but lining up a 30 point C in the two slot? Come on. Drury is 24 and has 37 career points. KK, is a nothing player - doesn't produce offense, doesn't kill penalties, doesn't play shutdown.

And mgmt thinks they are smarter then they actually are. Letting Vince go, replacing with KK. Add Kuzy. They are great at the amateur draft, or at least had a great run, but pro scouting is weak. . The idea that you never resign your vets lest they underperform at the end of their contract is not ageing well. You can't always find a replacement, so good on them for avoiding paying for Tro, those last few years might be ugly, but a guy like that can be the difference as the playoffs go deep.

To me this is playing out how I'd expect it, they just don't have the horses to go on a long run, no matter how well they are coached.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Are they sticking with Freddy? He’s been kind of 50/50. Some pretty solid saves but not very aggressive on the second chances.

It could go either way, but game 3 is pretty must win for the Canes. I don't think Rod would pull Freddy based on his play but maybe he puts in Kochetkov to try and light a fire under the team to do better? I dunno if that makes sense or would be smart but as I've outlined in earlier posts, you can't really blame Freddy for the goals that have gone in for the most part.

Rebounds/2nd chances are an issue but it's a team issue more than a goaltender one. If you are switching goalies under the premise that Pyotr would have stopped any of the goals from game 2 that went in then that's probably a pretty bad strategy.

Canes are obviously a great team, but they have some serious gaps that were going to get exposed in the playoffs. Not sure why anyone had them as a Cup favourite, that C group is weak. Staal is a great D zone player but lining up a 30 point C in the two slot? Come on. Drury is 24 and has 37 career points. KK, is a nothing player - doesn't produce offense, doesn't kill penalties, doesn't play shutdown.

And mgmt thinks they are smarter then they actually are. Letting Vince go, replacing with KK. Add Kuzy. They are great at the amateur draft, or at least had a great run, but pro scouting is weak. . The idea that you never resign your vets lest they underperform at the end of their contract is not ageing well. You can't always find a replacement, so good on them for avoiding paying for Tro, those last few years might be ugly, but a guy like that can be the difference as the playoffs go deep.

To me this is playing out how I'd expect it, they just don't have the horses to go on a long run, no matter how well they are coached.

Not re-signing Trocheck to the deal he inked with NYR is definitely a head scratcher. I will continue to bang the drum that I was dead wrong and thought he was going to get a 7x7 type deal and at that money I could see why you might let him walk, but for what he signed for? No, that's a slam dunk contract. And based on how seasons 1-2 have gone for him in NY 7x7 is below market value anyway.

 

[TGWL]

I always thought Rod was a great coach. But really am thinking he might not be.

It seems like he really struggles with adjustments and makes the Canes easier to gameplan against.

The Canes play one style and one style only. I always thought it was an advantage for the Rangers bc while we dont dictate play, we can play many types of games comfortably and adjust.

Still a long way to go. And as the saying goes, you are only in trouble once you lose on home ice. Game three is going to be mega huge.

The adjustments need to be for special teams to get that clicking. 5 on 5, we're not out playing them, so I don't think it's fair to throw Rod completely under the bus and say he struggles with adjustments. There's not a lot of adjustments to make when the team is doing everything right and just not being rewarded. If they adjust their 5 on 5 play, you're potentially making it easier to counter their 5 on 5 attack, and they don't want that because that's where they're excelling. I suppose you can say when trailing the team needs to open it up a little bit more and try to take advance of open ice areas instead of a cycle game.

 

[NYRKing]

It could go either way, but game 3 is pretty must win for the Canes. I don't think Rod would pull Freddy based on his play but maybe he puts in Kochetkov to try and light a fire under the team to do better? I dunno if that makes sense or would be smart but as I've outlined in earlier posts, you can't really blame Freddy for the goals that have gone in for the most part.

Rebounds/2nd chances are an issue but it's a team issue more than a goaltender one. If you are switching goalies under the premise that Pyotr would have stopped any of the goals from game 2 that went in then that's probably a pretty bad strategy.


Not re-signing Trocheck to the deal he inked with NYR is definitely a head scratcher. I will continue to bang the drum that I was dead wrong and thought he was going to get a 7x7 type deal and at that money I could see why you might let him walk, but for what he signed for? No, that's a slam dunk contract. And based on how seasons 1-2 have gone for him in NY 7x7 is below market value anyway.

Freddy hasn’t been terrible but idk Koch just looked like he’s breaking out - but yea tough to make the change especially if it doesn’t work.

Also pretty sure cane fans and league in general shrugged off the Tro signing given the term and feeling JK was taking the reins as 2C.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I feel like this last part sums up all of Brind'Amour's playoff coaching struggles. He's got his system, and it's made the Canes a great regular season team, but he doesn't account for the fact that a playoff series involves intense scouting and planning for the exact opponent in front of you. It's not "win this one and then we have a new opponent with new tendencies the day after tomorrow." Brind'Amour simply doesn't make adjustments when teams gameplan specifically to stop what the Canes do well.

Ya, there could be something to this. He certainly has a style of play that he has the team buy into and they follow it rain or shine. I think it does work 5 on 5 as we see from the Canes overall and in this season. They are dominant at 5 on 5.... but I think you need to sometimes let your horses run and have a plan to support that.

You can't be predictable all the time and not expect the other team to adjust. Guys like Aho, TT, Jarvis, Necas, Svech have the skill to let loose and due creative offensive things.

Usually it is just Svech or Necas trying to go it alone and make something happen by themselves when 'the system' isn't getting them the results the team is looking for. It's hit or miss... usually miss because that's how it's going to be most of the time when you are 1 on 5 like that. Occasionally you get magic but most of the time you are going to do something cool, make some moves but ultimately get shut down because you don't have someone else to play off of. This is something the Rangers do incredibly well.

Lavi is a run and gun type guy and NYR clearly has elite talent to make this work but I'm pretty certain he's cool with guys like Mika/Kreier/Bread/etc going and doing their thing because it plays to their skill-sets and they are just really good at what they do making it hard for the opposition to always shut it down.

 

[TGWL]

It could go either way, but game 3 is pretty must win for the Canes. I don't think Rod would pull Freddy based on his play but maybe he puts in Kochetkov to try and light a fire under the team to do better? I dunno if that makes sense or would be smart but as I've outlined in earlier posts, you can't really blame Freddy for the goals that have gone in for the most part.

Rebounds/2nd chances are an issue but it's a team issue more than a goaltender one. If you are switching goalies under the premise that Pyotr would have stopped any of the goals from game 2 that went in then that's probably a pretty bad strategy.


Not re-signing Trocheck to the deal he inked with NYR is definitely a head scratcher. I will continue to bang the drum that I was dead wrong and thought he was going to get a 7x7 type deal and at that money I could see why you might let him walk, but for what he signed for? No, that's a slam dunk contract. And based on how seasons 1-2 have gone for him in NY 7x7 is below market value anyway.

It's one of those situations where you look like a genius if it works out or you question the decision if it doesn't pan out the way you wanted. While not being the game that eliminates you, it's like you said, it's a must win scenario that should be viewed within the organization.

Regarding Trocheck, outside fans laughed when we signed him. It was never about Trocheck's worth but rather about the fear in term for a feisty player like that. So far it's going great, but we're in year 2 of 7. I'd imagine it was the same concern for Carolina when it came to term.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Freddy hasn’t been terrible but idk Koch just looked like he’s breaking out - but yea tough to make the change especially if it doesn’t work.

Also pretty sure cane fans and league in general shrugged off the Tro signing given the term and feeling JK was taking the reins as 2C.

100% JK being young and full of potential but mismanaged by MTL was the thinking there. We knew he wouldn't replace Trochek right away but as a long term play it would make sense. 2 years in and it clearly is a huge different in play and maybe it will never work out. We figured at worst, JK could take over Staal's 3C spot down the road and $4.8 for a good 3C is totally fine in this day and age and moving forward. But yeah, a guy like Trochek at 2C would really help.

Jarvis played junior as a C and they have very similar games. I wouldn't be shocked if they look at him to be the 2C behind Aho in the near future.

As for Pyotr... when he's hot he's red hot. He's wild and unpredictable but capable of having a 100 save shut out. Also capable in having a terrible game where he lets in 5 in the 1st. He's still super young, and I think the Canes overall just always go for the consistent approach and know that more often than not Freddy is going to play well enough to give them the chance to win. Pyotr is def the goalie of the future though so things could change quickly on that.

 

[Lempo]

Makes sense in a flat earth kinda way

During the regular season, if you fail to establish superiority within the allocated 60 minutes, the other guy gets* at least 50 percent of the amount of points you get. Then during playoffs, you get a lucky bounce of someone's ass at 89 minutes and you're gonna act like yeah we're the f***ing world champions? Yeah that's flat.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

It's one of those situations where you look like a genius if it works out or you question the decision if it doesn't pan out the way you wanted. While not being the game that eliminates you, it's like you said, it's a must win scenario that should be viewed within the organization.

Regarding Trocheck, outside fans laughed when we signed him. It was never about Trocheck's worth but rather about the fear in term for a feisty player like that. So far it's going great, but we're in year 2 of 7. I'd imagine it was the same concern for Carolina when it came to term.

Ya... I do think because Tro plays such a physical agitator game (he really is a Marchand-lite in just about every way), you have to worry about how his production will be in the back half of the contract given his injury history. If his skating takes a hit then a lot of what he does becomes less effective because he HAS to play at 150% in order to do what he does. But even with limitations on that he is still a swiss army knife player that should still be effective in a more limited role. With the cap going up I don't think it will be a huge burden on the roster construction though.

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

PP chances being even doesn't mean the outcome wasn't impacted. The more these games are played 5v5, the more advantage it gives to the Hurricanes. The more penalties, the more advantage to the Rangers.

If you look at the first 2 games, expected goals has NOT been a huge advantage for the Canes 5v5. Very slight advantage. The Canes need to do to the Rangers 5v5 what the Rangers are doing to them 5 v 4. So far they haven't.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

it’s foolish to write the canes off. they were so much better game 2 and they 100% played well enough to win it. game 1 was more on the rangers’ turtling late. rangers held serve though.

carolina is obviously going to play with a fire lit under them. they kinda have to. but if the refs are going to be ticky tacky, they can’t be too aggressive. game 3 is the kind of game that differentiates good coaches from not good ones, hence why gerard gallant was let go after last season.

I’ll be very surprised if they don’t win game 3 tbh.

 

[Levitate]

Not re-signing Trocheck to the deal he inked with NYR is definitely a head scratcher. I will continue to bang the drum that I was dead wrong and thought he was going to get a 7x7 type deal and at that money I could see why you might let him walk, but for what he signed for? No, that's a slam dunk contract. And based on how seasons 1-2 have gone for him in NY 7x7 is below market value anyway.

Trochek was an amazing signing by Drury and probably one of the best in the recent cap era at least

I think people are also giving Carolina a bit too much credit 5v5. They look good, but it's kinda empty calories. 50 something shots and the Rangers still outchanced them with real scoring chances and dangerous plays. They can setup some high quality chances but their propensity to "f*** it let's chuck it" at the net defintiely feels like it makes them look better than they are.

That said, they are a good team! Entirely possible they come back and even this up in Carolina! But yeah they kinda play their way and their response is kinda "play harder" rather than "play smarter". I dunno, it's why I "hate" them as a team it feels like low skill hockey with some spit and polish on it to look nice.

But yeah, in some ways I think they're less dominant 5v5 than people say they are

 

[Kupo]

Not re-signing Trocheck to the deal he inked with NYR is definitely a head scratcher.

This is no different than Rangers fans hating that we didn't re-sign Fast. What they fail to realize is Fast chose to sign in Carolina over here. Might be the case with Tro.

 

[hak]

Game 2 was insane. My favorite game in this playoffs so far.

 

[The New Russian Five]

I want to watch the rest of Rangers games on the Sports Net feed. I live in New York. Does anyone know any streams I can access? Please DM me. Can't watch on ESPN anymore.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'm not sure how comparing him to other players who have been criticized for underperforming in the playoffs helps your case...

What do you mean? He’s not saying Aho is LIKE those players, he’s saying Aho is better than those players.

Obviously it helps Aho’s case as a playoff performer if he has started off lower than those players in the regular season and then exceeded them in the playoffs. He explained it in his post.

 

[1909]

100% JK being young and full of potential but mismanaged by MTL was the thinking there. We knew he wouldn't replace Trochek right away but as a long term play it would make sense. 2 years in and it clearly is a huge different in play and maybe it will never work out. We figured at worst, JK could take over Staal's 3C spot down the road and $4.8 for a good 3C is totally fine in this day and age and moving forward. But yeah, a guy like Trochek at 2C would really help.

Jarvis played junior as a C and they have very similar games. I wouldn't be shocked if they look at him to be the 2C behind Aho in the near future.

As for Pyotr... when he's hot he's red hot. He's wild and unpredictable but capable of having a 100 save shut out. Also capable in having a terrible game where he lets in 5 in the 1st. He's still super young, and I think the Canes overall just always go for the consistent approach and know that more often than not Freddy is going to play well enough to give them the chance to win. Pyotr is def the goalie of the future though so things could change quickly on that.

You can bring a horse to the river, but you can’t force him to drink from it. Carolina knows that too now. Hard headed player, and not in the right way.