GDT: Ducks vs. Hawks, 5:30 PM PST: Better Late Than Never Edition

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Zegs2sendhelp

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I would agree with you normally but last night was atrocious from our defensemen in particular.
honestly playing in the dzone so much the last few weeks is going to ware down the dmen + the goalies are taking a large # of shots so they will be worn down too, we just cant control the puck/play at all without our centermen(doesn't help that were missing rakell eaves and kase too). Its a really bad situation right now... physically and mentally our dmen are going to break down. Mentally they basically know if the other team gets the lead and sits back our offense is simply not good enough to get back into the game.

The defense was exceptionally bad last night tho, and I fully expect for them to have games like that every once in a while until we get some help up front, cause right now its just a shooting gallery for the other teams.
 

SirQuacksALot

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I couldn't watch the game, but I saw the score. The Ducks have all of the defense back, so I can't understand why they are so bad defensively. Maybe Fowler and Vatanen aren't 100% or have some other issues coming back after injuries. I don't think Lindholm has been his old self either.

I don't think all the Dmen are healthy either, but I see the losses of Getz and Kes as bigger factors on defense. Both those guys can not only win faceoffs but keep possession of the puck. Without those guys the Ducks are giving up too much possession, thus too many shots, and therefore goals.
 

Dr Johnny Fever

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It's understandable that losing the players the Ducks have lost, expectations have to be lowered. But the problem isn't that the team is winning less, it's that the team looks disorganized and confused too often. It's one thing to be outplayed by better teams, it's another to not have your shit together on a regular basis. And that goes right back to the coaches. The same coaches who can't organize a PP for how long now?

When healthy, it's a question of whether or not the talent can overcome mediocre coaching. When not healthy, it's painfully obvious how bad the coaching really is. A quick look up I-15 shows you what good coaching can do with a very average roster.
 
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kducks

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I love the comments from Hawks fan on the DOPS twitter that Ritchie should have gotten fined too. "He started it".
 

Ducks in a row

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It's understandable that losing the players the Ducks have lost, expectations have to be lowered. But the problem isn't that the team is winning less, it's that the team looks disorganized and confused too often. It's one thing to be outplayed by better teams, it's another to not have your **** together on a regular basis. And that goes right back to the coaches. The same coaches who can't organize a PP for how long now?

When healthy, it's a question of whether or not the talent can overcome mediocre coaching. When not healthy, it's painfully obvious how bad the coaching really is. A quick look up I-15 shows you what good coaching can do with a very average roster.

What painfully obvious bad coaching is that? If your talking about RC we won the division last season,won a game 7 in the playoffs and made it to the western conference finals. This year with so many injuries that have caused many players being asked to play above their heads we have a respectable record. If coaching is so painfully obviously bad we would be doing so very much worse.
 
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Vinegar Strokes

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I'll go with a cross-sport analogy to explain our defense.

In the NFL, the Denver Broncos have an amazing defense, but you can't expect that defense to continuously play well when they are on the field for 70% of the game, they will get worn out and demoralized.

The Ducks are in a similar situation, you can't have the puck in your zone for most of the game, every game, and expect the defense to come out unscathed.

We desperately need some forwards back who can drive the play forward and maintain possession in the offensive zone, which will relieve some of the pressure on the goalies/defense.
 

Dr Johnny Fever

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What painfully obvious bad coaching is that? If your talking about RC we won the division last season,won a game 7 in the playoffs and made it to the western conference finals. This year with so many injuries that have caused many players being asked to play above their heads we have a respectable record. If coaching is so painfully obviously bad we would be doing so very much worse.

Your basing everything on won/loss record. You have to look beyond that. Stupid penalties, bad line changes, and people constantly being out of position on the ice are not a result of lack of talent, but rather a result of not fully understanding when, where, and how to use their talent. That is on the coach. The fact that a talented team can win playoff games does not make for a great coach.
 

Paul4587

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What painfully obvious bad coaching is that? If your talking about RC we won the division last season,won a game 7 in the playoffs and made it to the western conference finals. This year with so many injuries that have caused many players being asked to play above their heads we have a respectable record. If coaching is so painfully obviously bad we would be doing so very much worse.

I’ve seen teams over the years with far worse injuries that have made the playoffs and done very well. 5 or so years back the Pens played the second half of the season without Crosby or Malkin and still managed to win games and make the playoffs. That’s worse than missing Getz and Kesler for 2-3 months each.

And .500 isn’t a respectable record in this day. We are near the bottom of the conference - sure we have been hit hard by injuries but we are still giving up 40 shots a night with one of the best Ds (on paper) in the league, that’s a huge issue. As soon as Getz went out RC should have simplified things and played a trap game. It’s boring as hell but it’s the only way a team this beat up up front can get results.
 

eternalbedhead

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What painfully obvious bad coaching is that? If your talking about RC we won the division last season,won a game 7 in the playoffs and made it to the western conference finals. This year with so many injuries that have caused many players being asked to play above their heads we have a respectable record. If coaching is so painfully obviously bad we would be doing so very much worse.
Well, I can explain our respectable record with two words: John Gibson.

Watching the Ducks play right now is downright painful. We look as close to a drunk team in the beer leagues as possible for an NHL team. Missing our top two centers is not the reason that our goalies are facing upwards of 40 shots most nights. Our team defense is sloppy. Our passing is sloppy. We are incapable of generating anything both ways, even with a full blue line chocked full of puck-moving D-men.

It's easy for a coach to ride on the coattails of a good roster. When that roster loses just the slightest bit of strength, the team goes downhill. It's one thing to be outplayed. It's another to look like the entire team forgot how to, well, play hockey. To play like a team.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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The one thing i wish rc would do is let the young guys get more of a look....not shaw holzer liambas boll etc they are already fringe nhlers.. lets give some people with potential more of a look
 

AngelDuck

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The infatuation with Logan Shaw and Antoine Vermette is really something. We're giving those guys crazy amounts of ice time and getting no production out of them. I mean Vermette is averaging over 16 minutes of TOI and is on pace for like 23 points. That's horrible
 

Ducks in a row

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Your basing everything on won/loss record. You have to look beyond that. Stupid penalties, bad line changes, and people constantly being out of position on the ice are not a result of lack of talent, but rather a result of not fully understanding when, where, and how to use their talent. That is on the coach. The fact that a talented team can win playoff games does not make for a great coach.

Wins and losses are a important thing. BB was our coach for years and he has been considered a great coach by so many people and what did it get his teams? So many disappointments which had included having 4 years in a row blowing 3-2 series leads. With RC who many considered so terrible in his return to Anaheim we won the division,won a game 7 and reached the western conference finals. RC coached teams might not look so great but they don't do so bad like you would expect from a coach that is so horrible like people have been saying. RC isn't as bad a coach as made out to be but he also isn't a great coach either.

I’ve seen teams over the years with far worse injuries that have made the playoffs and done very well. 5 or so years back the Pens played the second half of the season without Crosby or Malkin and still managed to win games and make the playoffs. That’s worse than missing Getz and Kesler for 2-3 months each.

And .500 isn’t a respectable record in this day. We are near the bottom of the conference - sure we have been hit hard by injuries but we are still giving up 40 shots a night with one of the best Ds (on paper) in the league, that’s a huge issue. As soon as Getz went out RC should have simplified things and played a trap game. It’s boring as hell but it’s the only way a team this beat up up front can get results.

How many teams have had so many man games lost with such important players like we have had so far? Penguins when they have had Malkin hurt have had Crosby playing or when Crosby hurt have Malkin playing so they had a elite of elite center playing then.

We have a 10 - 10 - 4 record considering all the injuries we have had which includes to so many key players I would call that a respectable record even if it is in the lower half of the conference. Our D has had Fowler,Lindholm,Vatanen all missing a good amount of games so our good D on paper hasn't been iced at the same time much.

Well, I can explain our respectable record with two words: John Gibson.

Watching the Ducks play right now is downright painful. We look as close to a drunk team in the beer leagues as possible for an NHL team. Missing our top two centers is not the reason that our goalies are facing upwards of 40 shots most nights. Our team defense is sloppy. Our passing is sloppy. We are incapable of generating anything both ways, even with a full blue line chocked full of puck-moving D-men.

It's easy for a coach to ride on the coattails of a good roster. When that roster loses just the slightest bit of strength, the team goes downhill. It's one thing to be outplayed. It's another to look like the entire team forgot how to, well, play hockey. To play like a team.

Our goaltending as whole has been doing well and is a big part of it as has Grant and Wagner stepping up to do better then expected.

Getzlaf,Kesler,Fowler,Lindholm and Vatanen,Eaves,Kase all being hurt has contributed greatly to how many shots we have allowed. We probably even have some players playing hurt effecting their overall play such as Vatanen for example who I have heard some people say they think he is playing hurt.

We haven't just lost the slightest bit of strength this season we have lost so much this season. With all are health problems it should be surprise to no one that we have been struggling but there should be a surprise we have as good as a record as we have. I would of expected us to have a much worse record with all the injuries we have had.
 

Exit Dose

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The infatuation with Logan Shaw and Antoine Vermette is really something. We're giving those guys crazy amounts of ice time and getting no production out of them. I mean Vermette is averaging over 16 minutes of TOI and is on pace for like 23 points. That's horrible
This is the problem with Carlyle's three line setup. Under Boudreau, Vermette would have switched places with Kossila--in games like the one against Chicago--to try to spark some offense, but because he has a fourth line built to play five minutes per game, he can't justify moving Vermette down to that one. I think Vermette is a fine defensive forwards these days, but he doesn't offer much on the offensive side of things.
 

Dr Johnny Fever

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Wins and losses are a important thing. BB was our coach for years and he has been considered a great coach by so many people and what did it get his teams? So many disappointments which had included having 4 years in a row blowing 3-2 series leads. With RC who many considered so terrible in his return to Anaheim we won the division,won a game 7 and reached the western conference finals. RC coached teams might not look so great but they don't do so bad like you would expect from a coach that is so horrible like people have been saying. RC isn't as bad a coach as made out to be but he also isn't a great coach either.

I was hoping you wouldn't make this about Boudreau again. He's gone, we need to evaluate the here and now, not the past. You pretty much have confirmed that you only evaluate a coach on W/Ls. Numbers don't tell the whole story. They never do. As I've said elsewhere, if this year's team had last year's goaltending that record would be a whole lot worse. So without the new and improved Gibson/Miller tandem, the record you so proudly attribute to great coaching would be a disaster.

Maybe if our coaching philosophy wasn't to run a 4th line anchored by a guy who couldn't skate a regular shift in the ECHL, we wouldn't have to wear down the few healthy NHL capable players we do have, which could lead to fewer boneheaded mistakes on the ice. Just maybe.
 

Ducks in a row

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I was hoping you wouldn't make this about Boudreau again. He's gone, we need to evaluate the here and now, not the past. You pretty much have confirmed that you only evaluate a coach on W/Ls. Numbers don't tell the whole story. They never do. As I've said elsewhere, if this year's team had last year's goaltending that record would be a whole lot worse. So without the new and improved Gibson/Miller tandem, the record you so proudly attribute to great coaching would be a disaster.

Maybe if our coaching philosophy wasn't to run a 4th line anchored by a guy who couldn't skate a regular shift in the ECHL, we wouldn't have to wear down the few healthy NHL capable players we do have, which could lead to fewer boneheaded mistakes on the ice. Just maybe.

I am not saying RC is a great coach I am saying he isn't as bad as made out to be. With how bad a coach he is talked about being we should have a worse record then we do this season and should never of won the division and never made the western conference finals from last season.

What kinda forward lines and mins played with the injures we have had would make Ducks fans happy?
 

pbgoalie

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Our goaltending has been unreal for the most part. They stole a good number of our points.
Rakell and Grant have met expectations. Perry has been up and down, which is an improvement over last year.
I'm really worried that Fowler/Vats/Hampus have been pressed to duty to soon for a short term gain...hopefully NOT a long term loss....

Even with the age of Getz and Kesler, I really want to see our players get healthy first. I'm worried we are going to further run guys into the ground like we did last year.
 

pbgoalie

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What the hell did you do? :laugh:

I'm 55 years old, played hockey until I was 22. was a skier a good portion of my adult life (haven't since 2005),
and played golf professionally until last year.

Got injured in a damned golf cart accident! Guy plowed into me from behind. could have at least gotten hit by a Zamboni....a better story!!
 

Carelton CA

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Our goaltending has been unreal for the most part. They stole a good number of our points.
Rakell and Grant have met expectations. Perry has been up and down, which is an improvement over last year.
I'm really worried that Fowler/Vats/Hampus have been pressed to duty to soon for a short term gain...hopefully NOT a long term loss....

Even with the age of Getz and Kesler, I really want to see our players get healthy first. I'm worried we are going to further run guys into the ground like we did last year.

It's worse than grinding guys into the ground. The Ducks auditioning for all 30 teams Cogliano, Wagner and Grant. All 3 are going to get offers outside of Anaheim's budget.
 

Dr Johnny Fever

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I am not saying RC is a great coach I am saying he isn't as bad as made out to be. With how bad a coach he is talked about being we should have a worse record then we do this season and should never of won the division and never made the western conference finals from last season.

What kinda forward lines and mins played with the injures we have had would make Ducks fans happy?

The bolded is all your interpretation because I criticized the coaching this year. I really don't know why you can't let go of the past and just focus on the here and now. It's not about the record or how far the team got last year, it's about how undisciplined and disorganized the team is playing on too many nights. Guys in the wrong place, slow line changes causing outnumbered attacks, and stupid penalties. Well coached teams keep all of those things to a minimum way more than this team does. And those things have nothing to do with how talented the players are. They have everything to do with every player knowing what his responsibility is within the gameplan, and executing that responsibility properly every shift. That doesn't mean you won't get beat by a better player at times, but it does mean you won't be left asking, WTF just happened as often as we do. And that goes straight back to coaching.
 

dracom

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The infatuation with Logan Shaw and Antoine Vermette is really something. We're giving those guys crazy amounts of ice time and getting no production out of them. I mean Vermette is averaging over 16 minutes of TOI and is on pace for like 23 points. That's horrible
vermette is our best and most experienced center right now...
 

mightyquack

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It's worse than grinding guys into the ground. The Ducks auditioning for all 30 teams Cogliano, Wagner and Grant. All 3 are going to get offers outside of Anaheim's budget.
If they are going to offer outside of Anaheim's budget, it means they are going to be horribly overpaid and handicap those new teams. And tbh I don't buy into teams are going to be lining up to steal Grant and Wagner away from us (assuming we don't re-sign them early), as at the end of the day they weren't even NHL regulars until this season - I doubt teams are offering a decent size contract for either of them based on a hot start to this season.

Either way, I think we get them locked up way before FA.
 
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