GDT: Ducks @ Sharks - 7:30 PM PT - The Optimistic Edition

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Mallard

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Sure, I can understand that. But I also understand where they are coming from, and that flaw runs contrary to some of the BS criticism of them on here: that they don't care, low effort, lackadaisical.

That type of passion comes from a deep sense of competitiveness, it can't be faked.

It's just weak to see them lauded and then dropped so quickly by some "fans". It's been a bad three games and nobody has shown well, and that's been bad. But the hot takes fostered from hysteria is showing pretty poorly as well.

Many on here are having the same types of tantrums that they are demonizing, and it's very ironic.

Yep that's fair. I just think that passion could have been utilized in more productive ways.

I was in the camp of "people turning on those 3" you mentioned so I just wanted to explain myself is all.

Ultimately:
  • Game 3 will go down as one of my most hated games.
  • Getz and Perry will still go down as some of my favorite Ducks. And hell, I think Perry still has more to give which is contrary to what some others say.
I would love nothing more than for Getz/Perry/Kesler to all get hatricks on Wednesday and lead us to a Game 7 victory.
 
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The Duck Knight

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Getz is almost PPG in the playoffs - you can’t put the failures of 20 guys plus a coaching staff on Getz. That’s stupid.

Obviously it's not solely on Getzlaf, but he along with Perry are the mainstays that have been around throughout all of the failures all the while being the best players and supposed "leaders". There's a ton of roster turnover in those 7 years. I wanted RC gone the day he was hired. Still do. And if Murray can't evolve he should go too. There's a lot of blame to go around.
 

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Obviously it's not solely on Getzlaf, but he along with Perry are the mainstays that have been around throughout all of the failures all the while being the best players and supposed "leaders". There's a ton of roster turnover in those 7 years. I wanted RC gone the day he was hired. Still do. And if Murray can't evolve he should go too. There's a lot of blame to go around.
They have carried teams to a certain point until they cannot any longer, and it's at that point in which you then call them failures. Is that fair for any player?

Last postseason getzlaf was the best player on the ice most games. Is it fair to call him out immediately when he isn't at the ceiling of his game? What player can sustain that?

Instead of appreciating his domination it seems like you are dwelling on the times when that domination turns into merely "good". On cup teams that's when others step up.

Selanne was never a huge playoff hero, never reached even last year getzlaf in terms of postseason play, yet I never remember anyone saying he should be buried on the depth chart so he'd ask to be moved.

I'm telling you, in five years we will all be wishing we had a getzlaf back and that this era would still be going on. It'll be very revealing.
 

ZzZz

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Dec 22, 2017
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Obviously it's not solely on Getzlaf, but he along with Perry are the mainstays that have been around throughout all of the failures all the while being the best players and supposed "leaders". There's a ton of roster turnover in those 7 years. I wanted RC gone the day he was hired. Still do. And if Murray can't evolve he should go too. There's a lot of blame to go around.

I never felt the Ducks were truly contenders until they acquired Kesler anyways, people who were saying "The Ducks CHOKED" when they had Bonino as a 2C and a pretty sketchy top 4 D like it was the Ducks Stanley cup to lose those years were just being too dramatic. So what I am saying is I don't view 2008-2014 as failures by Getzlaf, and Perry, those teams shouldn't have been cup winners. 2015 was close, 3 crossbars in each 3OT game, any of those pucks go in and the Ducks made the SCF, 2016 was almost as bad as 2018 (coach was fired) and 2017 they made the conference finals and were derailed by injuries. I have a hard time seeing Getzlaf as the main problem, since the Ducks have been contenders they haven't had a bottom 6 that puts up any points, this year a bottom 9.
 

Ducks DVM

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They have carried teams to a certain point until they cannot any longer, and it's at that point in which you then call them failures. Is that fair for any player?

Last postseason getzlaf was the best player on the ice most games. Is it fair to call him out immediately when he isn't at the ceiling of his game? What player can sustain that?

Instead of appreciating his domination it seems like you are dwelling on the times when that domination turns into merely "good". On cup teams that's when others step up.

Selanne was never a huge playoff hero, never reached even last year getzlaf in terms of postseason play, yet I never remember anyone saying he should be buried on the depth chart so he'd ask to be moved.

I'm telling you, in five years we will all be wishing we had a getzlaf back and that this era would still be going on. It'll be very revealing.
I’ve been saying for years that I would like to see Getzlaf as NOT the captain, so he could concentrate solely on dominating games, which he can be amazing at, and less at leading, which he is frequently much less than amazing at.
 
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I’ve been saying for years that I would like to see Getzlaf as NOT the captain, so he could concentrate solely on dominating games, which he can be amazing at, and less at leading, which he is frequently much less than amazing at.
"Leading" is a nebulous concept when all we see is a fraction of their time together.
 
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They have carried teams to a certain point until they cannot any longer, and it's at that point in which you then call them failures. Is that fair for any player?

Last postseason getzlaf was the best player on the ice most games. Is it fair to call him out immediately when he isn't at the ceiling of his game? What player can sustain that?

Instead of appreciating his domination it seems like you are dwelling on the times when that domination turns into merely "good". On cup teams that's when others step up.

Selanne was never a huge playoff hero, never reached even last year getzlaf in terms of postseason play, yet I never remember anyone saying he should be buried on the depth chart so he'd ask to be moved.

I'm telling you, in five years we will all be wishing we had a getzlaf back and that this era would still be going on. It'll be very revealing.
This era will end and Rakell/Kase/Terry/Lindholm/Larsson/whatever flavor of the year aren't going to turn into the next Getz/Perry or Nieds/Pronger. Hockey's Future often mistakes itself for Hockey's Present.

The Ducks are arguably the 4th to 6th best team of the salary cap era. Getz is more often than not our best player in the playoffs, and sometimes he's the best player in the playoffs period, though he more often than not doesn't produce in game 7s. He's still a dominant force. Some perspective would help people realize this but HF is getting pretty f***ing ghetto lately, infected by social media mentality.

This year Getz has been invisible, but there is pretty obviously some team-wide malaise going on here. The coach and the players don't mesh, at all. The stuff about him getting mad...I mean I didn't see it, but give me a break. He hasn't done anything like that in years, and this one sounds pretty mild.

There's no question we need a new coach. The roster is good enough to win, but they need a lobotomy.
 

The Duck Knight

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"Leading" is a nebulous concept when all we see is a fraction of their time together.

Clearly we don't see what kind of vocal leader he is, but what we can see is the kind of example he sets on the ice. Not moving his feet, losing his checks, getting frustrated with the refs, refusing to shoot in prime scoring areas, and making blind passes into traffic are not cases of of leading by example. Stripping he and Perry of their letters is something that could/should have happened after BB was fired. Now we've wasted another 2 years and Perry has already fallen off and Getzlaf could any year now. That's why I'm advocating making him want to move now. We can still get a really good return for Getzlaf whereas if we wait until his play starts to decline we'll end up in no mans land. I think the main difference of opinion here probably stems from my own personal competitiveness. For me anything other than winning is failure. Top to bottom the Ducks haven't been good enough and IMO need a really significant change whether that be a new coach/GM and/or moving a franchise cornerstone. The problem is we've already changed the coach twice for this core and quite often see the same sort of problems resurface.
 

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Clearly we don't see what kind of vocal leader he is, but what we can see is the kind of example he sets on the ice. Not moving his feet, losing his checks, getting frustrated with the refs, refusing to shoot in prime scoring areas, and making blind passes into traffic are not cases of of leading by example. Stripping he and Perry of their letters is something that could/should have happened after BB was fired. Now we've wasted another 2 years and Perry has already fallen off and Getzlaf could any year now. That's why I'm advocating making him want to move now. We can still get a really good return for Getzlaf whereas if we wait until his play starts to decline we'll end up in no mans land. I think the main difference of opinion here probably stems from my own personal competitiveness. For me anything other than winning is failure. Top to bottom the Ducks haven't been good enough and IMO need a really significant change whether that be a new coach/GM and/or moving a franchise cornerstone. The problem is we've already changed the coach twice for this core and quite often see the same sort of problems resurface.

I will never agree with you if you want to tie getzlaf's leadership to the fact that he doesn't shoot enough. That's just crazy.

I wish there was an alternate universe in which Charles Dickens shows you a world where we get rid of getzlaf and you realize what a massive mistake it would be. Just a massive, massive mistake born out of emotion rather than logic.
 
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This era will end and Rakell/Kase/Terry/Lindholm/Larsson/whatever flavor of the year aren't going to turn into the next Getz/Perry or Nieds/Pronger. Hockey's Future often mistakes itself for Hockey's Present.

The Ducks are arguably the 4th to 6th best team of the salary cap era. Getz is more often than not our best player in the playoffs, and sometimes he's the best player in the playoffs period, though he more often than not doesn't produce in game 7s. He's still a dominant force. Some perspective would help people realize this but HF is getting pretty ****ing ghetto lately, infected by social media mentality.

This year Getz has been invisible, but there is pretty obviously some team-wide malaise going on here. The coach and the players don't mesh, at all. The stuff about him getting mad...I mean I didn't see it, but give me a break. He hasn't done anything like that in years, and this one sounds pretty mild.

There's no question we need a new coach. The roster is good enough to win, but they need a lobotomy.
Yeah, I'm hopeful there is a voice out there that can get through to them. I know getzlaf is the last thing from a problem though.
 

AngelDuck

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Go ahead and give Kesler a pass because of injuries...fine.

Doesn't mean he will be better next year. It's about making the right decisions moving forward. Sure, give him a chance to recover, but if his play continues to be ass next year you have to consider a buyout. Injuries ruin guys all the time. It's sports

You don't even consider getting rid of Getzlaf. He's a franchise pillar type. Even if he declines he'll still be a better player than Kesler ever was

I could see a scenario where they let someone else be captain like the Kings and Sharks did, but Getzlaf will retire a Duck
 
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ohcomeonref

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Go ahead and give Kesler a pass because of injuries...fine.

Doesn't mean he will be better next year. It's about making the right decisions moving forward. Sure, give him a chance to recover, but if his play continues to be ass next year you have to consider a buyout. Injuries ruin guys all the time. It's sports

You don't even consider getting rid of Getzlaf. He's a franchise pillar type. Even if he declines he'll still be a better player than Kesler ever was

I could see a scenario where they let someone else be captain like the Kings and Sharks did, but Getzlaf will retire a Duck

This is all bang on. I love Kesler but if the dude is ruined he has to go...

Getz is a lifer though, I don't ever see him with another team and would be upset to see it frankly. Doesn't mean I can't be pissed at him for last night's spectacle though, lol.
 

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I had a terrible dream. I went to next years training camp and Randy was still there barking at the players.

giphy.gif
 

The Duck Knight

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Go ahead and give Kesler a pass because of injuries...fine.

Doesn't mean he will be better next year. It's about making the right decisions moving forward. Sure, give him a chance to recover, but if his play continues to be ass next year you have to consider a buyout. Injuries ruin guys all the time. It's sports

You don't even consider getting rid of Getzlaf. He's a franchise pillar type. Even if he declines he'll still be a better player than Kesler ever was

I could see a scenario where they let someone else be captain like the Kings and Sharks did, but Getzlaf will retire a Duck

It's literally impossible to move Kesler though. He's damaged goods until he can prove he's not. Perry would probably take retention to move and not return much. If you believe this core is not a Cup contender moving Getzlaf would give you a quality return to jump start a rebuild. If the thought is this team literally can't survive a rebuild without Getzlaf then what happens when his play declines to Perry levels? Because it will eventually. Then you're left with no Cups to show for it, no franchise center, and no return on your investment. Not knowing when to throw in the towel is a legitimate concern. It's how you end up like Montreal or Vancouver.
 

The Duck Knight

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They have carried teams to a certain point until they cannot any longer, and it's at that point in which you then call them failures. Is that fair for any player?

Last postseason getzlaf was the best player on the ice most games. Is it fair to call him out immediately when he isn't at the ceiling of his game? What player can sustain that?

Instead of appreciating his domination it seems like you are dwelling on the times when that domination turns into merely "good". On cup teams that's when others step up.

Selanne was never a huge playoff hero, never reached even last year getzlaf in terms of postseason play, yet I never remember anyone saying he should be buried on the depth chart so he'd ask to be moved.

I'm telling you, in five years we will all be wishing we had a getzlaf back and that this era would still be going on. It'll be very revealing.

To be fair Selanne also didn't experience these levels of playoff failures when he was at his peak. So if you want to absolve Getzlaf of blame and say the other 20 guys haven't been good enough through the years (they haven't either) does that not indicate an obvious failure on the part of Bob Murray? Do you think he should keep his job at this point?
 

Dr Johnny Fever

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It's literally impossible to move Kesler though. He's damaged goods until he can prove he's not. Perry would probably take retention to move and not return much. If you believe this core is not a Cup contender moving Getzlaf would give you a quality return to jump start a rebuild. If the thought is this team literally can't survive a rebuild without Getzlaf then what happens when his play declines to Perry levels? Because it will eventually. Then you're left with no Cups to show for it, no franchise center, and no return on your investment. Not knowing when to throw in the towel is a legitimate concern. It's how you end up like Montreal or Vancouver.
Getzlaf (and Perry) have 3 years left after this one. They will both be 33 soon. Getz isn't going to return enough to just give up at this point. If he doesn't fall off a cliff he can hopefully still be a quality 2C until his contract expires. Perry would require retention at the very least and as you said, not return much. If Kesler can gracefully slide into a 3C role (albeit overpaid) he might still be a solid contributor. One of Silf/Rico would be gone for sure.

IMO, the team can be competitive going forward but only if a totally new culture is brought in. A new coach with new ideas and an emphasis on using and developing youth. I'd also take the C from Getz, all part of the new culture. That's not RC and I don't really think that's BM either. But it could be done. Would it guarantee a smooth transition? No. But this team has passed its expiration date. Without a major change in direction, it will only continue into a deeper downward spiral.
 
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To be fair Selanne also didn't experience these levels of playoff failures when he was at his peak. So if you want to absolve Getzlaf of blame and say the other 20 guys haven't been good enough through the years (they haven't either) does that not indicate an obvious failure on the part of Bob Murray? Do you think he should keep his job at this point?
Teemu didn't experience the failures because he never brought the team high enough to be considered one when they were outed. Getzlaf led his teams farther than teemu and Paul ever did.
 

The Duck Knight

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Getzlaf (and Perry) have 3 years left after this one. They will both be 33 soon. Getz isn't going to return enough to just give up at this point. If he doesn't fall off a cliff he can hopefully still be a quality 2C until his contract expires. Perry would require retention at the very least and as you said, not return much. If Kesler can gracefully slide into a 3C role (albeit overpaid) he might still be a solid contributor. One of Silf/Rico would be gone for sure.

IMO, the team can be competitive going forward but only if a totally new culture is brought in. A new coach with new ideas and an emphasis on using and developing youth. I'd also take the C from Getz, all part of the new culture. That's not RC and I don't really think that's BM either. But it could be done. Would it guarantee a smooth transition? No. But this team has passed its expiration date. Without a major change in direction, it will only continue into a deeper downward spiral.

That IMO is a must. Can't afford to go into next season with the biggest changes being a Roman Polak signing and a new 4th line that won't ever play with RC at the helm.
 
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