Speculation: Duchene trade looking back

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unicornpig

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i thought it was just karlsson but it seems ottawa fans will defend their players to the death no matter how wrong they are.
 

topshelf15

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They should, but Dorion doesn't exactly have a good trade record, and no matter the trade your team takes a hit when it loses the best defenseman in the game.
I dont they move him,but even if they do ..PD wont take peanuts for him,there will at least a blue chipper and a very high draft pick coming back....There is just too much at stake here in Ottawa with the new arena plans being worked out...Sinking the already pissed off fanbase even more ,wouldnt be a good thing
 

topshelf15

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i thought it was just karlsson but it seems ottawa fans will defend their players to the death no matter how wrong they are.
What are you going on about???Its not defending our players,its the nonsense ..That we have no hope for a rebound season ,when its pretty easy to see we still have some quality players in our system and on our roster
 

Foppberg

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I dont they move him,but even if they do ..PD wont take peanuts for him,there will at least a blue chipper and a very high draft pick coming back....There is just too much at stake here in Ottawa with the new arena plans being worked out...Sinking the already pissed off fanbase even more ,wouldnt be a good thing

Well I'm of the opinion that he's done in Ottawa, so. And what you said didn't really address anything, I'll be surprised if Ottawa makes the playoffs whether or not they trade EK, and if they do they're a bottom 10 team. Blue-chippers and high draft picks are nice but they're not going to help you next season.
 

topshelf15

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Well I'm of the opinion that he's done in Ottawa, so. And what you said didn't really address anything, I'll be surprised if Ottawa makes the playoffs whether or not they trade EK, and if they do they're a bottom 10 team. Blue-chippers and high draft picks are nice but they're not going to help you next season.
That makes no sense,so a guy like Dahlin wouldnt help us??
 

topshelf15

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I'm talking about what you would get back for EK, not where you guys might draft.
How the hell do you know what we will get back for EK??That the entire point here ,you guys had a historically bad season last year....Yet your players bounced back ,didnt they???How come ours cant??
 

topshelf15

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At the cost of EK? For next years standings? No, he wouldn't be a net-gain.
Are you sure??Ek could have injuries again next season and Dahlin could score 60 as a rookie...That the point ,there is no way to actually tell....But everybody seems to think we are for sure destined for a bottom 3 finish,when there is just as much likelyhood we could turn it around
 

Foppberg

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How the hell do you know what we will get back for EK??That the entire point here ,you guys had a historically bad season last year....Yet your players bounced back ,didnt they???How come ours cant??

If a team trades Dahlin for EK... They're an idiot. But even if they did, like the post above you said, Dahlin wouldn't fill the void of Karlsson. Which is my point, no matter what you get back for EK you'll be worse off without him.
 

topshelf15

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If a team trades Dahlin for EK... They're an idiot. But even if they did, like the post above you said, Dahlin wouldn't fill the void of Karlsson. Which is my point, no matter what you get back for EK you'll be worse off without him.
Again ,we are talking about hypotheticals...So here is one ,Ottawa wins Dahlin and resigns EK.....So are we are worse team than this year or better??
 

topshelf15

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Do you really not know the answer to that?
Thats the thing,it could actually happen ...Not likely but Ottawa is in contention....Why i dont think anybody should count on anything being absolute in this league...Your team is living proof man...Ottawa ,does have enough on the team and coming up through the pipe to rebound
 

Foppberg

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Thats the thing,it could actually happen ...Not likely but Ottawa is in contention....Why i dont think anybody should count on anything being absolute in this league...Your team is living proof man...Ottawa ,does have enough on the team and coming up through the pipe to rebound

I never said you can't, anything can happen. All I said was if you lose EK it doesn't matter what you get back from the deal or at the draft, you're a worse team next season without him.
 

Sensinitis

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I never said you can't, anything can happen. All I said was if you lose EK it doesn't matter what you get back from the deal or at the draft, you're a worse team next season without him.

To be fair, this season's version of EK wasn't the version that we have been accustomed to, save for maybe the past 10 games or so.

So depending on the return, if we get a good young roster player that can play now (or 2?) and some good, young prospects and fill in the rest of the holes in the lineup adequately, that mix of players might be better than having this year's version of EK (minus the past 10-15 games) minus that return.

So what I'm saying is that it would really be hard for the team to be worse than this season, regardless. That being said I doubt he's traded.
 
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Foppberg

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To be fair, this season's version of EK wasn't the version that we have been accustomed to, save for maybe the past 10 games or so.

So depending on the return, if we get a good young roster player that can play now (or 2?) and some good, young prospects and fill in the rest of the holes in the lineup adequately, that mix of players might be better than having this year's version of EK (minus the past 10-15 games) minus that return.

So what I'm saying is that it would really be hard for the team to be worse than this season, regardless. That being said I doubt he's traded.

Well it kind of proves my point. This years EK isn't the usual one, and you're a bottom club. So remove him completely? Doesn't look good. If/Whenever he's traded I expect that Ottawa will get a good return, but in the short term it'll hurt the Sens. I also don't expect Karlsson to make it past this summer as a Senator, so.
 

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There’s a huge difference between replacing a player like Duchene and Karlsson. Replacing Karlsson is literally impossible.
 

Sensinitis

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Well it kind of proves my point. This years EK isn't the usual one, and you're a bottom club. So remove him completely? Doesn't look good. If/Whenever he's traded I expect that Ottawa will get a good return, but in the short term it'll hurt the Sens. I also don't expect Karlsson to make it past this summer as a Senator, so.

I think you mixed yourself up here, or maybe I wasn't clear enough. This logic doesn't apply if the Sens were a basement team in a season where EK was great. Karlsson usually carries the team on his back (see 2017 playoffs for the most recent example). The Sens usually go as he does. This season, status quo in that regard. Karlsson sucked for his standards, and the team puts up a historically bad season (for its standards, in the past 20 years) as a result. He singlehandedly lost a few games for us, imo. We are a bottom club BECAUSE EK isn't his usual self. There's some serious correlation there. So if you take out an ailing hampered Karlsson and replace him with a young roster player with upside and maybe other parts put into the lineup, I highly doubt the Sens would do as bad as this season. It is very likely they don't make the playoffs (again, depending on the return of course), but not a basement team... It would take a lot of bad luck for the team to be WORSE than this season, in the standings, like you said earlier. Simply replicating this result would be difficult. You still have Duchene, Hoffman, Stone, Pageau, Dzingel, Chabot, etc. assuming those guys are kept, and some of the young guys will have another year under their belt, thus some progression there as well. Chabot, Brown, White, Chlapik, potentially Formenton, Wolanin, Jaros, etc. Add to that a good haul as a result of trading EK, and it's not as doom and gloom. You guys got an awesome return for Dutch, imagine the Sens get something better if they trade EK.

FWIW, the team was 3-1-1 to start the season without Karlsson. Once he came back, they went 2-2-3. The wheels soon after fell right off once they came back from Sweden, even though they won both games there. Anyways, this is just my opinion as someone who has watched a ****load of Sens games, it's fine if you disagree. It would all depend on the return though, for sure.
 
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McRobbiezyg

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I think you mixed yourself up here, or maybe I wasn't clear enough. This logic doesn't apply if the Sens were a basement team in a season where EK was great. Karlsson usually carries the team on his back (see 2017 playoffs for the most recent example). The Sens usually go as he does. This season, status quo in that regard. Karlsson sucked for his standards, and the team puts up a historically bad season (for its standards, in the past 20 years) as a result. He singlehandedly lost a few games for us, imo. We are a bottom club BECAUSE EK isn't his usual self. There's some serious correlation there. So if you take out an ailing hampered Karlsson and replace him with a young roster player with upside and maybe other parts put into the lineup, I highly doubt the Sens would do as bad as this season. It is very likely they don't make the playoffs (again, depending on the return of course), but not a basement team... It would take a lot of bad luck for the team to be WORSE than this season, in the standings, like you said earlier. Simply replicating this result would be difficult. You still have Duchene, Hoffman, Stone, Pageau, Dzingel, Chabot, etc. assuming those guys are kept, and some of the young guys will have another year under their belt, thus some progression there as well. Chabot, Brown, White, Chlapik, potentially Formenton, Wolanin, Jaros, etc. Add to that a good haul as a result of trading EK, and it's not as doom and gloom. You guys got an awesome return for Dutch, imagine the Sens get something better if they trade EK.

FWIW, the team was 3-1-1 to start the season without Karlsson. Once he came back, they went 2-2-3. The wheels soon after fell right off once they came back from Sweden, even though they won both games there. Anyways, this is just my opinion as someone who has watched a ****load of Sens games, it's fine if you disagree. It would all depend on the return though, for sure.

So you're saying the senators should trade karlsson?
 

Sensinitis

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So you're saying the senators should trade karlsson?

Not at all. The past 10-15 games or so we have seen him get better, and he himself has said he feels better. This summer he will have a full couple of months to train, something he didn't have the chance to do for a second last summer.

Karlsson will be much better next season, regardless which team he plays for. I hope it's the Sens.
 

McRobbiezyg

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Not at all. The past 10-15 games or so we have seen him get better, and he himself has said he feels better. This summer he will have a full couple of months to train, something he didn't have the chance to do for a second last summer.

Karlsson will be much better next season, regardless which team he plays for. I hope it's the Sens.
yeah i feel ya, I dont think the senators should ever trade karlsson. i was just giving you a bit of a hard time :P
 
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The Abusement Park

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I think you mixed yourself up here, or maybe I wasn't clear enough. This logic doesn't apply if the Sens were a basement team in a season where EK was great. Karlsson usually carries the team on his back (see 2017 playoffs for the most recent example). The Sens usually go as he does. This season, status quo in that regard. Karlsson sucked for his standards, and the team puts up a historically bad season (for its standards, in the past 20 years) as a result. He singlehandedly lost a few games for us, imo. We are a bottom club BECAUSE EK isn't his usual self. There's some serious correlation there. So if you take out an ailing hampered Karlsson and replace him with a young roster player with upside and maybe other parts put into the lineup, I highly doubt the Sens would do as bad as this season. It is very likely they don't make the playoffs (again, depending on the return of course), but not a basement team... It would take a lot of bad luck for the team to be WORSE than this season, in the standings, like you said earlier. Simply replicating this result would be difficult. You still have Duchene, Hoffman, Stone, Pageau, Dzingel, Chabot, etc. assuming those guys are kept, and some of the young guys will have another year under their belt, thus some progression there as well. Chabot, Brown, White, Chlapik, potentially Formenton, Wolanin, Jaros, etc. Add to that a good haul as a result of trading EK, and it's not as doom and gloom. You guys got an awesome return for Dutch, imagine the Sens get something better if they trade EK.

FWIW, the team was 3-1-1 to start the season without Karlsson. Once he came back, they went 2-2-3. The wheels soon after fell right off once they came back from Sweden, even though they won both games there. Anyways, this is just my opinion as someone who has watched a ****load of Sens games, it's fine if you disagree. It would all depend on the return though, for sure.

I get that you guys have some good players coming up, and you do. Chabot, White, and Brown especially should be good NHL players in the near future, but to trade a near generational defenseman like EK and think there won’t be a negative impact on the teams performance seems optimistic, like very optimistic. Dorion will have to have an incredible summer to trade EK and keep the Sens from being a bottom 10 team especially if they insist on Ryan coming with him.
 

Korpse

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Which as of now is the 2nd largest single season turn around in history. So good luck duplicating that!

Only becuase they had one of the worst single seasons in history. Ottawa wouldnt need to duplicate it. ;)
 
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