Dressing Sheep in Wolves Clothing (Mod Warning page 35)

[Gee Wally]

it definitely is a debate where both sides can have a lot of good points to defend their pov

I guess at the end of the day on a purely selfish pov... I think to myself... ive seen kids play a game of pickup hockey. ive seen beer leaguers play a game of hockey. I didn't hang around long to watch. maybe a few mins and I had enough

I went to some junior games and I was able to make it through the game... and of course lots of nhl games. theres definitely a difference for me when the physical play is allowed to ramp up. it really seems to increase the energy and passion out there when everyone begins to crash and bash

now in the nhl its different then any other league, because nhl guys are making on average well over a million dollars to play. theres around 800 contracts in pretty much the entire world where an nhl player can jump from 100k to over a million dollars playing this game

competition for these million dollar jobs is fierce and competitive. if the guys on the other side value their jobs... they know that playing spirited physical competitive hockey is necessary. you are doing the same. if that player shows you up and scores a goal... your job is in jeopardy. if you get the upper hand and you score a goal because he couldn't hang and bang with you... his job is in jeopardy

men being... who men are... when your job and livelihood is in jeopardy... you get emotional and you need to up your game to keep what is yours.

even in a game like basketball... tempers are going to flare and fights will happen. but in basketball they aren't carrying deadly weapons to freak out with. in football theres so much body armor on each other that a fight would probably hurt you more than it hurts him. but they work out their aggression by just laying the torpedo down on one another

I don't watch enough rugby or aussie football to know what the deal is in those sports but I just think we are wishing for unicorns if we think the human male can get this physical with each other with a million dollar a year job on the line... and not reach a point where violence will be necessary

nhl in order to appease its advertisers... certainly is allowed to show a public face that they are against fighting... they can make it against the rules and establish whatever penalties they want. guys that fight and give the league a black eye can see their million dollar jobs come into jeopardy. this is where the race is headed anyhow so I suspect it will continue. fighting will become more and more pushed out of the game. the fights that remain will be more and more the type most of us like. the natural fights that are born from fierce competition.

I cant think of more than a handful of nhl guys who have a job based primarily on their fighting powers today. if we go back 10 years there was probably at least 5% of all nhl players that had jobs for no other reason than their fighting ability.

I think this debate was more relevant 10 years ago. I think the decision makers have weighed in. money talks. I see one of our friends here saying attendance will go down as fighting is taken from the game... but the nhl is NOT an attendance driven league anymore and as they make inroads to going global, the new markets they want to get into are not expecting fights.

the future of the nhl is online like every other sport that will thrive into the next millinia. advertiser revenues and world wide subcriptions to the streaming offers is whats going to keep the league relevant.

the physical nature of hockey is what does make it exciting and gives it the identity that people enjoy. the speed of the game... the impact of the game... without it, hockey can suck.

try to watch 2 bottom feeder Olympic teams play the game against one another... without the physical element on that big ice... its tough. its really tough.

if we cant take the physical and fierce style of play out of the game without making it boring... and if these guys have very competitive multi million dollar paychecks to protect... fights will happen from time to time no matter how much outsiders might frown on them.

I do think its occupational hazard when you give it an honest evaluation. its human nature and I think once you sign that million dollar contract you are giving consent that you are prepared to do what is necessary to earn the money

Dont get me wong Michael. Ive been a fan and played since Original 6 days. I love a spontaneous good fight.

Its just Ive also seen the changes. Masks, helmets, visors, instigator, etc..
I believe in my lifetime if I live long enough I will see full face cages and auto ejection.

Strictly my opinion of what the future holds and some reasons why.
Ive already posted far too much on litigation and evolution of medical diagnosis and studies.

So for me its not an argument Ill engage in specific to like vs like. Brcause I dont think it matters. I think its a question of when more than anything.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Is there anything we can learn about the effects of fighting on winning by looking at the stats?

Florida, edmonton, calgary are 3 of 5 teams with at least 21 fights

Vegas, winnipeg, toronto, columbus, colorado, san jose are 6 of 8 teams with less than 10 fights

Almost looks like skating a bunch of fighters who cant play sets a team back? Alot of the smaller teams with skill are in playoff spots

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Its been 2 months actually.
Theres an article around here somewhere where he himself says he's too slow and cant keep up. That his focus this off season will be to lose weight.

if you find that article I'd love to read it.

 

[Gee Wally]

if you find that article I'd love to read it.

Here you go...

Lucic discusses his slump

The game is getting faster all the time. How can Lucic make sure he doesn’t become one of the veterans who can’t keep up?
“It is a tough question to answer, because I don’t know what I will be like in four years, or what the league will look like, but it is up to me to do anything I can to get faster. That is more so on the off-ice part of it, than the on-ice part of it.
“I have to get lighter. I’m naturally a big-boned person. When we were in LA we used to do the Dexa scan and they’d give you your bone mass and all that stuff. A regular bone mass is eight pounds for an athlete and I was eleven. That is just my natural build.
“I’ve been changing my diet. I’ve felt my legs were going at the start of the season, but this next summer, no, starting right now I have to start working on things to ensure I can continue to produce at a high level,”Lucic said.
Lucic is a big man. He’ll never be small, and he’s always been in good shape, but he admitted he has to get lighter.
“When I weighed in at training camp I was 236 pounds. I’m now 238. I need to get down to 225 next year. It is just a matter of will and wanting to. I have always been in good shape, but I’ll have to come in lighter,” said Lucic.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Here you go...

Lucic discusses his slump

The game is getting faster all the time. How can Lucic make sure he doesn’t become one of the veterans who can’t keep up?
“It is a tough question to answer, because I don’t know what I will be like in four years, or what the league will look like, but it is up to me to do anything I can to get faster. That is more so on the off-ice part of it, than the on-ice part of it.
“I have to get lighter. I’m naturally a big-boned person. When we were in LA we used to do the Dexa scan and they’d give you your bone mass and all that stuff. A regular bone mass is eight pounds for an athlete and I was eleven. That is just my natural build.
“I’ve been changing my diet. I’ve felt my legs were going at the start of the season, but this next summer, no, starting right now I have to start working on things to ensure I can continue to produce at a high level,”Lucic said.
Lucic is a big man. He’ll never be small, and he’s always been in good shape, but he admitted he has to get lighter.
“When I weighed in at training camp I was 236 pounds. I’m now 238. I need to get down to 225 next year. It is just a matter of will and wanting to. I have always been in good shape, but I’ll have to come in lighter,” said Lucic.

thanks, Wally.

I still love that big lug. I love how candid he is here & how he takes responsibility. I am rooting for him to bounce back for sure. To be honest I think part of it is mental for him. We saw him go through bad slumps here too. Like the article says, before his slump started in December 24 of his 26 points were at even strength & he was on pace for 59 points. I don't think he suddenly got "too slow" over the christmas break. I bet he and the Oilers have a bounce back year next season.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

big topic on edmonton radio today... benning got run by kane and san jose last night with no push back in another team loss

its happened all year. the team fights alot but never comes to each others aid.

dressing goons wont matter... sticking up for each other does

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

thanks, Wally.

I still love that big lug. I love how candid he is here & how he takes responsibility. I am rooting for him to bounce back for sure. To be honest I think part of it is mental for him. We saw him go through bad slumps here too. Like the article says, before his slump started in December 24 of his 26 points were at even strength & he was on pace for 59 points. I don't think he suddenly got "too slow" over the christmas break. I bet he and the Oilers have a bounce back year next season.

i honestly just think lucic finds that locker room in edmonton to be very disheartening compared to la and boston

lucic gets his success only from hard physical work. guys like lucic hurt for their success

if you are watching everything burn to the ground around you its hard to give a damn

id actually take lucic back if edmonton eats 1/2. i think he can still gear it up when he feels the effort is worth the pain

 

[Gee Wally]

thanks, Wally.

I still love that big lug. I love how candid he is here & how he takes responsibility. I am rooting for him to bounce back for sure. To be honest I think part of it is mental for him. We saw him go through bad slumps here too. Like the article says, before his slump started in December 24 of his 26 points were at even strength & he was on pace for 59 points. I don't think he suddenly got "too slow" over the christmas break. I bet he and the Oilers have a bounce back year next season.

I think the game is passing him by.

Having said that if Im ever in a joint where hes having dinner or drinks , they’ll be on me.

 

[RoccoF14]

i honestly just think lucic finds that locker room in edmonton to be very disheartening compared to la and boston

lucic gets his success only from hard physical work. guys like lucic hurt for their success

if you are watching everything burn to the ground around you its hard to give a damn

id actually take lucic back if edmonton eats 1/2. i think he can still gear it up when he feels the effort is worth the pain

Not me. I think he’s done. Not happy to say that.

I’d be happy to split the tab with you Wally.

 

[Thrive]

I think the game is passing him by.

Having said that if Im ever in a joint where hes having dinner or drinks , they’ll be on me.

Likewise. His style of play and build was an anomaly in producing 1st line stats for as long as he did considering where the game was trending - but he complimented his line mates while he was young so well (Savard, Kessel, Krejci, Horton, Iginla, etc).

The game seems to have passed him by with the emotional (I don’t doubt the semi-recent trauma he had in his personal life didn’t impact his play - we’re all human, including superhero Looch) and physical tolls being realized, and that sucks to say.

 

[bob27]

Well they got bigger at the deadline.

 

[Gee Wally]

As of last night he's now gone 27 games without a goal...

Lucic hoping to 'start fresh' in March - Article - TSN


Lucic last scored on December 23 against the Montreal Canadiens, but said Wednesday he's hoping flipping the page in the calendar will help him get back on track.
“It’s been a rough two months. Sometimes you just have to start fresh,” Lucic told the Edmonton Journal. “The thing is it’s March 1 starting on Thursday. I have to start fresh with a new month.”

The 29-year-old has just five points since scoring his last goal and is a minus-13 over that same span. He threw six shots at the net over his past two games and hit the post on an opportunity against the Sharks where Martin Jones was beaten. Earlier in that same game, Justin Braun's shot deflected off Lucic and beat Cam Talbot as the Oilers went down 2-1.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

big topic on edmonton radio today... benning got run by kane and san jose last night with no push back in another team loss

its happened all year. the team fights alot but never comes to each others aid.

dressing goons wont matter... sticking up for each other does

Kane didn’t “run” Benning

I was watching and it was one of those little pushes to the back, Benning lost an edge and went hard into the boards and hit hard. Ref was two feet away and didn’t call anything.

Personally, I thought he should have gotten two minutes, but don’t think there was any intent. Lucic v Kane would be a good fight, but my money would be on Looch. He’s probably in a pretty bad mood after not scoring for this long.

 

[bruins repeat time]

Kane didn’t “run” Benning

I was watching and it was one of those little pushes to the back, Benning lost an edge and went hard into the boards and hit hard. Ref was two feet away and didn’t call anything.

Personally, I thought he should have gotten two minutes, but don’t think there was any intent. Lucic v Kane would be a good fight, but my money would be on Looch. He’s probably in a pretty bad mood after not scoring for this long.

Kane is zero match for Luc. and not in his fight class He was a better match for Horton but lost to him .

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Kane didn’t “run” Benning

I was watching and it was one of those little pushes to the back, Benning lost an edge and went hard into the boards and hit hard. Ref was two feet away and didn’t call anything.

Personally, I thought he should have gotten two minutes, but don’t think there was any intent. Lucic v Kane would be a good fight, but my money would be on Looch. He’s probably in a pretty bad mood after not scoring for this long.

didn't see it myself... only going based on what I hear about 30 experts say on various talk shows out of Toronto, Edmonton, Calgary

you see it much different then every single other person ive heard discussing the play

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Kane is zero match for Luc. and not in his fight class He was a better match for Horton but lost to him .

I heard a lot of rumors over the years from people close to the Vancouver giant camp that lucic and kane were quite good buddies. maybe too good of buddies to want to fight even after all these years?

 

[bruins repeat time]

I heard a lot of rumors over the years from people close to the Vancouver giant camp that lucic and kane were quite good buddies. maybe too good of buddies to want to fight even after all these years?

You could be right but as I say he basically isn't ever dropping him with a guy like Luc unless under very extreme circumstances .

 

[Fenian24]

I heard a lot of rumors over the years from people close to the Vancouver giant camp that lucic and kane were quite good buddies. maybe too good of buddies to want to fight even after all these years?

I find it interesting that a team that has 4 good fighter (or had) in Lucic, Kassian, Maroon and Nurse is getting run, but I have watched a lot of Edmonton games this year and agree, the guys that should be stepping up and setting a physical tone aren't

I also agree Lucic has checked out and if Boston could get him with Edmonton retaining 50% I still feel he would be very useful here.

I do have to wonder if the lack of response is a directive from the coaching staff, I can't see Lucic and previously Maroon allowing their teammates to be run unless they are being told not to retaliate.

As much as I am disappointed in Boston not having enough toughness players have tried to answer when a teammate was given a questionable hit Schaller and Kuraly have tried they just aren't very good at it. A full season with McQuaid would have helped, hopefully Wingells, who isn't a fighter but is definitely a pain to play against resigns next year. Based on what I saw of him in Worcester and San Jose he would be a nice addition.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I find it interesting that a team that has 4 good fighter (or had) in Lucic, Kassian, Maroon and Nurse is getting run, but I have watched a lot of Edmonton games this year and agree, the guys that should be stepping up and setting a physical tone aren't

I also agree Lucic has checked out and if Boston could get him with Edmonton retaining 50% I still feel he would be very useful here.

I do have to wonder if the lack of response is a directive from the coaching staff, I can't see Lucic and previously Maroon allowing their teammates to be run unless they are being told not to retaliate.

As much as I am disappointed in Boston not having enough toughness players have tried to answer when a teammate was given a questionable hit Schaller and Kuraly have tried they just aren't very good at it. A full season with McQuaid would have helped, hopefully Wingells, who isn't a fighter but is definitely a pain to play against resigns next year. Based on what I saw of him in Worcester and San Jose he would be a nice addition.

I think edmontons locker room is seriously cracked

when yakupov left... he basically cried and said they bullied him and made him feel like a loser

there was rumors that draisailts black eye this year was because nurse punched him

hall and ference beasically got into a shouting match in the media when ference was calling out he locker room

souray got run out of town both for criticising the locker room and the medical staff

pronger supposedly left town over problems with the wife of another player I guess if the rumors are to be believed

some of my examples go back... quite awhile... but I'm mostly just talking about the main ones

theres been a ton of little things get mentioned that make me think this team hasn't had leadership or comradery in the locker room for the past decade and I don't think its any better today

 

[Fenian24]

I think edmontons locker room is seriously cracked

when yakupov left... he basically cried and said they bullied him and made him feel like a loser

there was rumors that draisailts black eye this year was because nurse punched him

hall and ference beasically got into a shouting match in the media when ference was calling out he locker room

souray got run out of town both for criticising the locker room and the medical staff

pronger supposedly left town over problems with the wife of another player I guess if the rumors are to be believed

some of my examples go back... quite awhile... but I'm mostly just talking about the main ones

theres been a ton of little things get mentioned that make me think this team hasn't had leadership or comradery in the locker room for the past decade and I don't think its any better today

Would explain why the continue to add great picks in the draft, make decent signings and still can't improve. I have always believed in chemistry being important to a teams success this sounds like a perfect example of how bad chemistry can kill a team.

 

[Dr Hook]

theres been a ton of little things get mentioned that make me think this team hasn't had leadership or comradery in the locker room for the past decade and I don't think its any better today

So where do you lay the blame? I understand it happening to a team in a certain moment with a specific set of personalities, but a decade+ of dysfunction has to be ownership, doesn't it? Not being an Oilers fan I have no idea, but a player of Looch's talent, no matter how slow he is getting ought to be doing much better than he is this year.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

didn't see it myself... only going based on what I hear about 30 experts say on various talk shows out of Toronto, Edmonton, Calgary

you see it much different then every single other person ive heard discussing the play

I don’t go by what biased “experts” say, I look at it myself.

Like I said, should have been a two minute penalty. Nothing more.




Hardly what I would call a big hit.

 

[Fenian24]

Cheap hit from behind to throw a player off balance into the boards. Example 1A of why there should be no instigator. Face to the boards, pushed from behind 3 feet from boards knowing player will crash head first into boards or at least chest first, weak and cowardly, what I would expect from Kane.

Don't think he should be suspended but an Oiler should have fought him

 

[EverettMike]

I don’t go by what biased “experts” say, I look at it myself.

Like I said, should have been a two minute penalty. Nothing more.




Hardly what I would call a big hit.

Had no idea what you guys were talking about, after watching it a couple times I'd say 5 minutes and a game misconduct. Super dangerous spot on the ice, and a little push is all it takes.

If they had called it that way I can't see it also getting a suspension.

What the f*** was the ref looking at though?

 

[Dr Hook]

Had no idea what you guys were talking about, after watching it a couple times I'd say 5 minutes and a game misconduct. Super dangerous spot on the ice, and a little push is all it takes.

If they had called it that way I can't see it also getting a suspension.

What the **** was the ref looking at though?

If it was Marchand it would have been 5 and a suspension to follow. No, it wasn't brutal hit, but it was dirty, and Kane knew what he was doing. It should have been called, I agree. I am so glad we didn't get him on our team as some wanted.