Drafting Russians

[Redder Winger]

Between 2004 and 2011 the Red Wings didn't draft a single Russian.
I think the aversion to Russians was costly. Instead of Kuznetsov, we got Sheahan, for example.
It was a strange aversion for an organization whose renaissance owed so much to Russians.

But anyway, I wanted to do a test.
From 2006 to 2015, I'm going to replace the Red Wings first, second and third round picks with the highest Russians left on the Central Scouting Euro rankings

Let's see what happens
2006
Emmerton for Anisimov
Matthias for Vasyunov
Axelsson for Popov
Larsson for Zharkov

2007
Smith for Mayorov
Andersson for Goncharov

2008
McCollum for Petrov
Nicastro for Voynov

2009
Ferraro for Orlov
Tatar for AVTSYN
Nestrasil for BURDASOV
Fournier for ANDRONOV

2010
Sheahan for Kuznetsov
Jarnkrok for Kitsyn
Aubry for Zaitsev

2011
Jurco for Kucherov
Ouellet for ARZAMASTSEV
Sproul for MARCHENKO
Quine for S BARBASHEV

2012
Frk for Prokhorkin
Paterson for Slepyshev

2013
Mantha for Buchnevich
Nastasiuk for Yakimov
Bertuzzi for Andrei Mironov
Janmark-Nylen for Anton Slepyshev

2014
Larkin for Kamenev
Turgeon for Gavrikov

2015
Svechnikov for DERGACHYOV
Saarijarvi for Volkov


In the beginning, you get better picks simply by taking the top ranked Russian still on the board.
It's more complicated from about 2011 on, when more and more top Russians come over to the CHL.

Click to read more...

 

[PelagicJoe]

I think part of it is just crappy scouting, especially when it comes to defense.
Our only recent picks that turned out to be worth anything were Tatar, Nyquist, Larkin, then maybe Mantha and AA. All of those guys are second liners at best on a championship caliber team.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I barely know half of those guys but it looks like we’re worse off. Of course we aren’t going to pick Russians over Larkin for example but a lot of them don’t seem good.

I haven’t done any research though

 

[Flowah]

Our scouting definitely has to take some blame there. It's not like our first rounders were knocking it out of the park during those years. We really could have taken a chance on some of those Russians. Oh no. No Kindl. How will we cope? Obviously, Wings were either pretty sure about guys we were taking, or were very sure that the Russians would never come over, or we were totally unaware of the Russians. I doubt it's the third one.

Honestly it seems like most of the best Russians want to come here anyway. The money may not be as good, but you get to live in a better place, the money is still pretty damn good, you're not scared of getting kneecapped by some Russian mafia crap, and you get to play in the best league in the world, with the best players in the world. If you're competitive, and I'd say most NHL caliber players are, then you want to prove you're the best and play with and against the best. I don't see how anyone could make it to the NHL level and not have that mentality. These people want to f***ing win.

Going forward, might it be enough that we just ignore the so called "Russian factor" and barring specific knowledge of a specific player, just drafting BPA (according to needs)?

I barely know half of those guys but it looks like we’re worse off. Of course we aren’t going to pick Russians over Larkin for example but a lot of them don’t seem good.

I haven’t done any research though

Voynov, Kucherov, Kuznetsov are all excellent players we'd be lucky to have. At bare minimum there's 3 standout players on that list.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Voynov is out of the nhl. So only 2.

 

[TheMule93]

Voynov is out of the nhl. So only 2.

what voynov did may have never happened if he got drafted by Detroit, still 3

anyway, i fear evgeny svechnikov is going to scare them off of Russians even more

 

[SpookyTsuki]

what voynov did may have never happened if he got drafted by Detroit, still 3

anyway, i fear evgeny svechnikov is going to scare them off of Russians even more

And he might have developed poorly. And the others who are no names might have been superstars. It’s 2. Unless we are just talking about overall. I’m thinking we are talking about the here and now

I don’t think evgeny will scare Detroit. Only if he leaves on some dumb reasons

 

[Redder Winger]

Think about that -- by simply limiting yourself to the next ranked player from a single country - we were drafting better for the first five years.

I don't know what that says about our drafting, or Russian players, or just staying with Central Scouting's ratings. But it was odd.

I might give it a shot with the Swedes.

The Russians really disappear off the euro list in 2011 or so.

 

[Frk It]

Part of why I was so mad at the Bertuzzi pick is because I really wanted Buchnevich in that ‘13 draft, but at least Lil Bert is making me eat some crow now.

Also, I know people want to act like it wasn’t a huge concern, but I don’t think Kuznetsov comes over for many (if any) other teams.

Like Semin and Orlov, Kuznetsov fell presumably because of the difficulties in bringing a player over from Russia. McPhee has one secret weapon, though, and he knows it. It's Alex Ovechkin.

McPhee said having Ovechkin on the Caps is like having a guarantee that Russian draft picks will eventually want to make their way to Washington.

"People are concerned about signing and drafting Russian players, but we just feel that what we're doing [with] Ovechkin, that he'll play in Washington," McPhee said. "We can do some things that other teams are afraid to do."​

Nobody Does A Draft Better Than George McPhee​

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Part of why I was so mad at the Bertuzzi pick is because I really wanted Buchnevich in that ‘13 draft, but at least Lil Bert is making me eat some crow now.

Also, I know people want to act like it wasn’t a huge concern, but I don’t think Kuznetsov comes over for many (if any) other teams.

Nobody Does A Draft Better Than George McPhee​

This has been covered a lot. I don't think he comes over for a single other team in the league. In a lot of ways I am honestly surprised Washington took him with a first round pick.

I think there are reasons they are scared of doing it. They have taken a few low round guys that haven't panned out. I don't think this will play into Evgeny's brother at all if he is there to be selected they will go after him in my opinion.

The Wings generally know the likelihood of the guy coming, I bet they are similar with the Swedes now that a couple were so hard to get to come over and stay. To me this isn't necessarily about everyone else so much as the Grigorenko situation. Now that had a tragic accident involved with it but I think they were probably bummed they couldn't get him over earlier.

We need to do due diligence on any player we are drafting from Europe as some do opt not to come or have very limited patience in terms of development time and adaptation to the NA style.

 

[Redder Winger]

Kuznetsov's idol is Datsyuk. I think he might have come to Detroit.

 

[Christien]

Will never forget how badly I wanted us to take Kucherov. I was so disappointed Tampa took him. I remember him ripping up the U18's

 

[bellringer77]

I mean there is give and take on this list for me personally. You never know how delopement would of been in different systems either

 

[Pavels Dog]

Lots of teams passed on Russians. This was right after Radulov bolted and it seemed more and more young players were staying in KHL and veterans going back there.

Think about how much risk there is with an ordinary draft pick. Then you add ”might not come over no matter how good he turns out” as an additional variable. Some teams gambled and got rewarded. Some teams gambled and didn’t get rewarded, some took russians high and got burned. Just how it is.

 

[Claypool]

I'm sure Jim Nil would love a do over on Valeri Nichushkin. Can't imagine the reaction around here if Holland spent a top 10 pick of a player who bolted back to Russia.

 

[Henkka]

I remember Nikuchkin was ranked 3rd on Red Wings list made mostly by McDonell (Nill had already left at Dallas).

Ken Holland would have got absolute love by scorched Earth rebuild (like everybody here wanted after Lidström retirement), picking Nichuskin 3rd overall.

No Mantha and 3rd overall in KHL. Brilliant.

 

[Winger98]

Nichuskin isn't tearing it up in the KHL, either. He might have been doing better in the NHL.

 

[Flowah]

Part of why I was so mad at the Bertuzzi pick is because I really wanted Buchnevich in that ‘13 draft, but at least Lil Bert is making me eat some crow now.

Also, I know people want to act like it wasn’t a huge concern, but I don’t think Kuznetsov comes over for many (if any) other teams.

We had Datsyuk and the legacy of the Russian 5. That didn't have any allure? They couldn't have Datsyuk talk to a couple of these kids while he was back in Russia every summer?

 

[Redder Winger]

How does Detroit do vs Central Scouting Rankings?

2006
Emmerton 41 for Emmerton or Alexandrov
Matthias 47 for Nigel Williams or Anisimov
Axelsson 62 for Ben Shutron or Popov
Larsson 92 for Bobby Hughes or David Kveton

2007
Smith for Tommy Cross or Maxim Mayorov
Andersson for David Skokan or Nichlas Torp


2008
McCollum for Colby Robak or Voynov
Nicastro for Mikhail Stefanovich or Philip Larsen


This is boring. Red Wings are doing better than CSS in North America.

I like the Euro rankings a lot more than NA rankings.
Seems like the NHL's Euro scouts are far more likely to be on the ball.
The NA rankings seem every bit as random as one might expect.

 

[lilidk]

I don't wont another Svechnikov in 2018 draft , but there is Khovanov , who will be available late first , early second. He impress me at juniors u17

 

[Pavels Dog]

We had Datsyuk and the legacy of the Russian 5. That didn't have any allure? They couldn't have Datsyuk talk to a couple of these kids while he was back in Russia every summer?

It would have been real nice of Dats to convince young russians to come over, only to break his own contract to go back to Russia lol.

 

[lilidk]

It would have been real nice of Dats to convince young russians to come over, only to break his own contract to go back to Russia lol.

there is a time when athletes understand that they are no longer can compete at the highest level at the best league. Remember Chelios , Cleary and now Jagr

 

[TheMule93]

I don't wont another Svechnikov in 2018 draft , but there is Khovanov , who will be available late first , early second. He impress me at juniors u17

If we ended up with the 2nd overall pick you would choose Khovanov over Svechnikov?

 

[Flowah]

It would have been real nice of Dats to convince young russians to come over, only to break his own contract to go back to Russia lol.

I mean, he would have still been around for a few years for most of these players. We've only been without him for a couple years. All the guys looked at in this thread were from before 2012. He was still with us and was still going to be with us for a few.

 

[lilidk]

If we ended up with the 2nd overall pick you would choose Khovanov over Svechnikov?

No. There is a problem with his brother , why he is not scoring and i don't know what is it . If it is mental, i don't wont to see nether of them . At # 2 you can get Tkachuk or Boqwist . If we have second late #1 draft we can have Khovanov