draft order/lottery

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by pei fan, Jun 7, 2005.

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  1. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    There is alot of talk about the NHL making the first pick available potentially to
    every team via a lottery.IMO the discussion surrounding this seems to be based
    on some misunderstanding.I would like to bring some clarification to this issue
    especially in noting the difference between "draft order" and "lottery".

    Draft order is traditonally based on the previous years standings with the last
    team going first and the first team going last ,etc.The purpose is to help
    the weaker teams become more competitve.

    The lottery was added so that teams couldn't absolutely ensure first pick
    overall by throwing the season.

    In the current rumours we are hearing the topic is stictly about all teams
    getting a shot at first pick.There is no suggestion that this will determine the
    order throughout the entire draft and really that would be a pretty ridiculous
    notion.

    So getting back to the basic premises of "draft order" and "lottery" it really
    stretches the imagination to see how it could be fair that a team such as
    Detroit could have a shot at #1 pick.The proper principal will remain for
    the draft order but there will be "disconnect" when it comes to the lottery.

    If this were a normal draft year these rumours and discussions wouldn't even
    be taking place.
     
  2. frisland

    frisland Registered User

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    But this isn't a normal year, so this conversation has to take place....over and over and over and over and over again
     
  3. Lorenzo1000

    Lorenzo1000 Registered User

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    I believe using a lottery to determine the draft order is a great idea to promote interest in Hockey, fair (as long as they reverse order of picks in the second round, First round 1-30, second round 30-1), and the only real way to do it considering no hockey was played.
     
  4. MePutPuckInNet

    MePutPuckInNet Registered User

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    why reverse the order for each round? they should have a new lottery for each round...that way the draft can continue for many many moons... :sarcasm:
     
  5. Matt Foley*

    Matt Foley* Guest

    I don't think any kind of lottery to determine the draft order would create more meaningful interest in hockey, at least here in the States. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of US sports fans don't even know who Sidney Crosby is, let alone any of the other top draft-eligible prospects.

    Now, if the NFL draft order was determined by a lottery, then you'd have the attention of the typical US sports fan.
     
  6. DaveBrown21

    DaveBrown21 Registered User

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    Bottom line is lottery or no lottery, after Crosby is picked #1, there will be little or no interest on who goes #2 and beyond.
     
  7. Lorenzo1000

    Lorenzo1000 Registered User

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    So the option is to do nothing....
     
  8. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    I don't think that is being discussed at all.I think they are looking at a draft
    order based on something reasonable (last 3 years average) but with a lottery
    that goes beyond moving you 4 positions.

    I'm pretty sure that's what's being discussed.There is no way they can make
    Columbus pick last.
     
  9. CGG

    CGG Registered User

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    They certainly can make Columbus pick last. And as woefully improbable as it may seem, Columbus could have finished 1st and/or won the Cup if there was a 2004-05 season.

    What's being discussed is a complete lottery system where every team has a chance to pick 1st or 30th. Gary himself even came up with one scenario, which may or may not be used, that gives a better chance to win to the teams who have been recently sucky (ie Columbus) but does nothing to guarantee that Colorado won't pick 1st or Columbus won't pick last. There's been a bunch of threads on this already.
     
  10. Matt Foley*

    Matt Foley* Guest

    When did I say that?

    BTW, if you want to know where I stand on how the NHL can become more popular in the States, here's my take from another forum:

    I believe that hockey's best hope of gaining popularity in the States for the long haul is making it more available for the youngsters to play. Marketing gimmicks to bring people to the arena may work in the short run, but few people will want to continue watching a sport that they can't relate to. Football, baseball, and basketball are more popular in the US than hockey because people have more access to play those sports.

    One main barrier to hockey being available to more kids in the States is that there's fewer places for them to play hockey compared to other sports. Where football, basketball, and baseball can be played in backyards and parks year-round in a lot of places in the US, access to a public rink is necessary in most parts of the country. Another is the higher cost to play hockey vs. other sports, like soccer and basketball, from what I understand (I'm not a hockey parent; maybe someone who is can attest to this).

    Hockey will be need to become more a part of our country's culture before it can achieve more success here. Ideally, hockey should follow the path soccer has taken to become more popular here, which was to make it more available to the kids. However, it's a lot easier in many parts of the US to gain access to a park to play youth soccer in, as compared to gaining access to an ice rink to play hockey in.
     
  11. CREW99AW

    CREW99AW Registered User

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    I disagree.

    While I'd love to see my team win the Crosby lottery,I'd also be thrilled if they ended with J. Johnson or Brule.
     
  12. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    I realize there's been a bunch of threads on this but I think its been misunderstood
    as this thread is proving(in regards to what my understanding is).On a matter
    of principal you have to look at the teams with recent weakness as having
    the preferred draft order.That is the whole principal behind the draft order.
    Even though there is no season to go by you still have to use the "principals"
    of the past.Whether that means using the last standings available or a 3
    year average, I'm not sure but the principal (draft designed to help weaker teams) has to be applied.I can't see any other argument being made with integrity,
    only arguments to meet special interests.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2005
  13. HSHS

    HSHS Losing is a disease

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    Agreed 100%.... teams should consider investing in local rinks and leagues (ala what the Caps are doing in Ballston)... They shouldn't run these as segregated businesses for profit, but as part of a larger business plan of expanding revenue. Not sure what performance indicators could be used. (I understand that the Caps are leasing space and not operating the rinks).

    Additionally, the league needs to figure out how to get used equipment to kids, especially lower income children. I know that equipment is plentiful in Canada... but we need some system down here too.
     
  14. HSHS

    HSHS Losing is a disease

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    I just had to do it since it was written over and over again, so please forgive me.

    This has been beaten over and over again and I think that principals who argued each position are tired. While some based their arguments on principle, others simply argued based on how it would affect their team. :D
     
  15. Epsilon

    Epsilon #TeamHolland

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    If the rumoured dispersal draft actually took place (which I don't think it will), I don't see how anyone can argue for any system other than 1-30 equal shot picks.
     
  16. HSHS

    HSHS Losing is a disease

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    I think any reasonable person would have to agree with you... but I also think any reasonable person has to understand that without the dispersal draft, some historical context must be used to slighty increase the odds of some frachises over others. Not a big fan of the current rumor being floated around.
     
  17. pei fan

    pei fan Registered User

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    :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: my bad- I do know the difference -just a
    brain fart.
     
  18. HSHS

    HSHS Losing is a disease

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    I was hoping you'd take it as being funny and not a jerk... also coming from a guy who mistakenly wrote "31 other teams" on a hockey board soon after leaving an NFL site...
     
  19. BigE

    BigE Registered User

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    Excellent clarification. Thanks. :handclap:

    Why does everyone feel the need to start a new thread on the draft lottery when the old one falls off the page? It's been talked to death and this 'clarification' is nothing new. :shakehead

    There are two camps: the first camp includes those people who generally follow weaker teams and believe that the NHL should use past years to determine lottery odds for this years draft. This first group is most likely the majority in both fan and expert circles. The second group includes those who generally follow the more successful teams and believe that all teams should have an equal shot because this year represents a precedent in NHL history. They feel all teams have been compensated for their poor seasons of the past and thus everyone is equal by 2005 standards.

    Regardless of the method everyteam but the winning one will **** its pants. What's the point in rehashing things that have been debated to no end?
     
  20. Kritter471

    Kritter471 Registered User

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    The Stars do an excellent job of this in Dallas. They operate/own seven rinks in conjunction with the local cities and run a variety of house and travel programs, along with individual players pouring a lot of support into the local junior teams and league.

    The way they do their equiptment for young or underprivledged kids is kind of a lease-to-own system with the youth programs. I have no idea how they do it at the higher levels.

    This has helped tremendously with the local growth of the game, and main reason why I think Dallas will recover fairly well from the lockout. They're really established the game in this city as not just a game professionals play, but a game locals can pick up as well.

    Though they still need to schedule more stick&puck time for adults. *grumbles*
     
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