Draft, Muckler says BOG favour 30 balls in a bin

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Mess

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Jaded-Fan said:
Of course I take any of these with a grain of salt. Huge grains of salt. I am not reporting those linked articles as the Gospel, far from it. I am questioning how this competing rumor became as legit though without a single link to it. Show me where Muckler actually said this and I will raise this leak to the level of the prior one in my head. Both with a grain of salt, but both equally possible. Until then, why should I?
You have already defeated yourself in the debate .. You are saying the articles printed should be taken with a huge grain of salt and the next minute you are entering them into evidence to prove your point ..

If the printed article is either right or wrong, it can't hold up an more then a radio one can even if a link is provided or 30 GM's go on record and say it ..Particularly when the people that have the final say on the matter haven't even meet yet and will not until April 20th ..

Right now all we have is suggestions .. 1 weighted and 1 unweighted and equal lottery option.. Unless you can predict the future as what the BOG vote will be .. nothing matters its just discussion for everyone.

Certainly you don't believe for 1 second that at the BOG meeting Bettman will use these links you speak of to settle the issue then ..
 

Jaded-Fan

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The Messenger said:

You have already defeated yourself in the debate .. You are saying the articles printed should be taken with a huge grain of sand and the next minute you are entering them into evidence to prove your point ..

If the printed article is either right or wrong, it can't hold up an more then a radio one .. Particularly when the people that have the final say on the matter haven't even meet yet and will not until April 20th ..

Right now all we have is suggestions .. 1 weighted and 1 unweighted and equal lottery option.. Unless you can predict the future as what the BOG vote will be .. nothing matters its just discussion for everyone.

Certainly you don't believe for 1 second that at the BOG meeting Bettman will use these links you speak of to settle the issue then ..

You are not reading very closely. I take all leaks with a grain of salt, especially with how we have been burned in the past by NHL leaks. That said, some have much bigger grains of salt than others. I am pretty confident that someone who is a legit source leaked the articles like this one:

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=120872&hubName=nhl

They may have their own agenda, they may be overstating, they may be a thousand things, but it was printed enough places for me to feel comfortable that the writers of the several articles that included that info felt that the persons that they got that info from was at the meeting and had legit knowledge. So though I take it with a grain of salt, I see it as legit news to chew on.

Now take the beginnings of this thread. Where was that rumor vetted? And especially, why is there no link at all if this actually went on in the meeting? Common sense tells me that it would have made its way somewhere . . . even if it were only to a Brooks or Strachen article. That it has not makes me very wary of the rumor, and legitimately so. These negotiations have been as leaky as a sieve and yet nothing but what we have been presented with here.

Again, some grains of salt are much bigger than others.
 

mr gib

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LaBomba said:
John Muckler said yesterday on the Team1200 that the league is considering 2 options on the draft order for 2005.
#1 - draft order selected based on past 5 years with a wieghted system
He said there was very little support for this


#2 - 30 balls in a drum, pick them one by one. Everybody has a fair shot. Round 2 reverses so team 30 gets 31 as well.
He said that this was the most popular by far. He also stated that the teams that were in the bottom of the standings were already rewarded with good draft picks in 2004.

My guess, is that he wants Sydney lining up beside Hossa.
or the rangers already have the fix in
 

Mess

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Jaded-Fan said:
You are not reading very closely. I take all leaks with a grain of salt, especially with how we have been burned in the past by NHL leaks. That said, some have much bigger grains of salt than others. I am pretty confident that someone who is a legit source leaked the articles like this one:

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=120872&hubName=nhl

They may have their own agenda, they may be overstating, they may be a thousand things, but it was printed enough places for me to feel comfortable that the writers of the several articles that included that info felt that the persons that they got that info from was at the meeting and had legit knowledge. So though I take it with a grain of salt, I see it as legit news to chew on.

Now take the beginnings of this thread. Where was that rumor vetted? And especially, why is there no link at all if this actually went on in the meeting? Common sense tells me that it would have made its way somewhere . . . even if it were only to a Brooks or Strachen article. That it has not makes me very wary of the rumor, and legitimately so. These negotiations have been as leaky as a sieve and yet nothing but what we have been presented with here.

Again, some grains of salt are much bigger than others.
You keep stating the same thing over and over somehow believing that will change things .. We don't even need a link for all intensive purposes, because certainly you have read enough things include Fergy Jr stating it should be 1 -30 unweighted ..

Why are you not grasping the real issue .. GM"S have NO SAY IN THIS .. THE BOG makes the final decision. They haven't even discussed it yet .. So nothing said, leaked, not said, rumours, lies, printed, not printed is even important ..IT DOESN'T COUNT ...

What came out of their meeting has as much value as the discussion in this thread does ... NOTHING , ZERO, ZILCH .. They are not the decision makers in this ..

Not sure how many times it needs repeating to you ..
 

HSHS

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GregStack said:
Deal.

We will do the draft as though it's a usual year, and since Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Detroit, Colorado, Dallas, Tampa Bay, Phoenix, Columbus, Atlanta, Anaheim, San Jose, Florida, Minnesota, St. Louis, Boston, Buffalo, Chicago, Carolina, New Jersey, New York (x 2), LA, Nashville, and Washington all miraculously tied each other with a 0-0-0-0 record we'll give everyone the same shot at Crosby.

I'm glad someone finally brought some logic into this mess.


Does anyone know the EXACT last tie-breaker????

I know in the NFL it is a coin flip.
 

Jaded-Fan

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heshootshescores said:
Does anyone know the EXACT last tie-breaker????

I know in the NFL it is a coin flip.

Scissors, rock and paper. Or battleship. Whichever of the two methods on which the parties agree.
 

Munchausen

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ODC said:
IT'S JUST ONE FREAKING DRAFT YEAR

Capitals alone would not have won me over, but the size of the font you chose really makes your point shine. How can I counter such an eloquent thought? (well maybe if there was a size 8 font).
 

bleedgreen

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ODC said:
You don't think the *CANUCKS* (poster boy for HORRIFIC drafts) don't know about bad drafting ?

Tough beans, the draft is a complete crapshoot. You get lucky or you don't. Carolina has had its share top-3 picks and they got busts. That's how the cookie crumbles.

There was NO 04-05 season. So all teams get a 1/30 chance at draft position. That is it, end of story.
sorry - forgot you were in charge. there is no confirmation that its going to go in any direction yet - so your confidence in "thats it, end of story" is pretty hallow. when was the last time the canucks were in the top 10? carolina/hartford has had 3 top three picks in its history of over 30 years - fred arthur was a bust, but pronger and staal look pretty good. what busts were you refering to?
 

Charge_Seven

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Munchausen said:
Capitals alone would not have won me over, but the size of the font you chose really makes your point shine. How can I counter such an eloquent thought? (well maybe if there was a size 8 font).

lol

Well Played.
 

Charge_Seven

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Jaded-Fan said:
Scissors, rock and paper. Or battleship. Whichever of the two methods on which the parties agree.

I certainly hope it comes down to that...PLEASE GOD LET IT COME DOWN TO THAT
 

Gary

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GregStack said:
I say do the lottery on draft day too, just to keep all the teams guessing right up to the draft.

That would actually suck huge IMHO...I think teams should know atleast a month before hand so they can map their strategies. What kind of package could I use to get the #1 pick for the Capitals for example? If Calgary is at draft position 13 and we're at 17 and player X still has'nt been selected (who our scouts are big on) should we trade up for him? and what would that take to get the deal done? What's a enticing offer to the Flames given their current roster?
 

Jaded-Fan

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GregStack said:
I certainly hope it comes down to that...PLEASE GOD LET IT COME DOWN TO THAT

And if it comes down to Phoenix and Pittsburgh . . . not at all an impossible scenerio given the respective recent records of those teams . . .then Mario and Wayne have agreed to play twister to decide.

To be fair though they got the idea from Bettman and Goodenow. I have heard it from some very good sources that is how the two decided to resolve the NHL lockout last week.
 

WVP

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Jaded-Fan said:
And if it comes down to Phoenix and Pittsburgh . . . not at all an impossible scenerio given the respective recent records of those teams . . .then Mario and Wayne have agreed to play twister to decide.

There goes Lemieux's back....Crosby to Phoenix.
 

Jaysfanatic*

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FLYLine4LIFE said:
Such a horrible idea. Bad teams get good draft picks, its as simple as that, that is how the bad teams get better in the future. Because of the lockout that contempt just gets thrown out the door? If this was any other non-Crosby year this wouldn't even be an issue. The league really is a joke.

Funny.....if you were a Wings or Avs fan you'd be singing hallelujah, but being a Rangers fan, and being an anually bad team, you feel you should get the high pick.....
 

me2

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Munchausen said:
Capitals alone would not have won me over, but the size of the font you chose really makes your point shine. How can I counter such an eloquent thought? (well maybe if there was a size 8 font).

THERE IS ALWAYS BOLD & UNDERLINE & FUNKY COLOURS
 

signalIInoise

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HockeyCritter said:
I hear comments about how putting the kid in a market like New York or Toronto would be "good" for the game and I worry that the powers that be will see to it that it will happen.

Rest easy -- when have you ever heard of these particular powers that be doing ANYTHING good for the game?
 

Mess

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signaliinoise said:
Rest easy -- when have you ever heard of these particular powers that be doing ANYTHING good for the game?
Big Market teams will stil easily sell tickets without Crosby .. So teams like NYR and Toronto don't need him for survival

Diehard Hockey loving Small market teams would benefit most ..

I am hoping for Calgary / Edmonton .. Buffalo playing the same conference as his Fav Habs & others would make Buffalo financially sounder .. LA (Hollywood) would be a good fit for the NHL.. Minnesota would be fine as well ..

So My teams in order would be for Crosby

1) Calgary
2) Edmonton
3) LA
4) Buffalo
5) Minnesota
 

signalIInoise

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The Messenger said:
So My teams in order would be for Crosby

1) Calgary
2) Edmonton
3) LA
4) Buffalo
5) Minnesota

The rest of your post leads me to believe you lend credence to the possibility that the NHL will fix the draft. I don't think they're going to fix it, and really, it doesn't matter to me if they do.

If that's the case, you can cross Calgary and Edmonton off your short list.

Why? Because if the NHL does fix it, it will be to court American viewership, and Americans do NOT care about Canada, and will never care about anything that ever happens in Canada to Canadians. Sorry, but it's a fact of life. If the #1 pick lands anywhere in Canada, you can be assured that the draft was on the up-and-up.

If I walked down the street and asked 100 of my fellow Americans the question "Who is the President of Canada?" Maybe 15 would come up with a name, maybe 5 would give me the right name, and maybe another 5 would tell me that Canada has a Prime Minister, not a President.

Minnesota makes sense: Americans love to think they love the Midwest.

I think Chicago makes more sense, because there's media there, and a fan base that desperately needs courting and rebuilding (and more desperately needs new ownership, but that's another post)
 

EroCaps

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signaliinoise said:
The rest of your post leads me to believe you lend credence to the possibility that the NHL will fix the draft. I don't think they're going to fix it, and really, it doesn't matter to me if they do.

If that's the case, you can cross Calgary and Edmonton off your short list.

Why? Because if the NHL does fix it, it will be to court American viewership, and Americans do NOT care about Canada, and will never care about anything that ever happens in Canada to Canadians. Sorry, but it's a fact of life. If the #1 pick lands anywhere in Canada, you can be assured that the draft was on the up-and-up.

If I walked down the street and asked 100 of my fellow Americans the question "Who is the President of Canada?" Maybe 15 would come up with a name, maybe 5 would give me the right name, and maybe another 5 would tell me that Canada has a Prime Minister, not a President.

Minnesota makes sense: Americans love to think they love the Midwest.

I think Chicago makes more sense, because there's media there, and a fan base that desperately needs courting and rebuilding (and more desperately needs new ownership, but that's another post)

5 teams I'd like to see draft SC

1. Chicago
2. Washington (obviously)
3. New York Rangers
4. Nashville
5. Edmonton

5 teams I'd not like to see draft SC

1. Pittsburgh
2. Atlanta
3. Detroit
4. Colorado
5. Columbus
 

Mess

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EroCaps said:
5 teams I'd like to see draft SC

1. Chicago
2. Washington (obviously)
3. New York Rangers
4. Nashville
5. Edmonton

5 teams I'd not like to see draft SC

1. Pittsburgh
2. Atlanta
3. Detroit
4. Colorado
5. Columbus
IMO Chicago is the least deserving .. Bill Wirtz possibly behind only Harold Ballard is the worst Owner in the NHL ..

He has the market , He has the Money , He should be a Big Market Team , He could puts lots of fans in the seats by signing a key UFA if he cared .. The Windy City can easlily support an NHL team ..

Bill Wirtz just doesn't care , He has no TV deal except road games .. POOR POOR MANGEMENT ..
 

PeterSidorkiewicz

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signaliinoise said:
The rest of your post leads me to believe you lend credence to the possibility that the NHL will fix the draft. I don't think they're going to fix it, and really, it doesn't matter to me if they do.

If that's the case, you can cross Calgary and Edmonton off your short list.

Why? Because if the NHL does fix it, it will be to court American viewership, and Americans do NOT care about Canada, and will never care about anything that ever happens in Canada to Canadians. Sorry, but it's a fact of life. If the #1 pick lands anywhere in Canada, you can be assured that the draft was on the up-and-up.

If I walked down the street and asked 100 of my fellow Americans the question "Who is the President of Canada?" Maybe 15 would come up with a name, maybe 5 would give me the right name, and maybe another 5 would tell me that Canada has a Prime Minister, not a President.

Minnesota makes sense: Americans love to think they love the Midwest.

I think Chicago makes more sense, because there's media there, and a fan base that desperately needs courting and rebuilding (and more desperately needs new ownership, but that's another post)

I was just curious what you meant by Americans love to think they love the midwest? Didn't get that. Also, I think it depends WHERE in America you live to know if you care about Canada or what comes out of it. If you live in New Mexico and Nevada, probably not, but I assure you people who live in Detroit and Buffalo and other northern cities close to Canada do know a lot about the country. Because to them Canada is less foreign than a place like Texas because they're so close and frequent there more often.
 

PecaFan

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ODC said:
There was NO 04-05 season. So all teams get a 1/30 chance at draft position. That is it, end of story.

Nonsense. There's no "end of story". There's nothing in the CBA rules that states the '05 draft *must* be based on the results of an 04-05 season. This "there was no season so therefore draft chances must be equal" stuff is pure crap, based on false premises and conclusions drawn from them.

In fact, there's nothing in there at all that says selection order should be based on final standings (exception is the first round lottery). It simply says the league may determine the order, as long as it doesn't affect Club rights.

Which is why I keep referring to "spirit of the draft". The whole point of the draft is to improve the teams which have had the least on ice success in the past. Whatever system is implemented, it must adhere to these principles, if the league has any integrity.

Of course, that's a big "if" right now. :shakehead
 
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