Draft and UDFA Thread 2017-18

[Joey Bones]

Assume we don't win a Lottery Pick and we want to add another 1st round pick.

Who are some teams and scenarios where we could do that?

Thanks in advance.

Rangers will definitely have a lottery pick no matter what with their first pick is

 

[Joey Bones]

If anybody's argument is lacking context, it's the Bash Brady Battalion. I get choosing one prospect over another and having preferences, but dragging a kid through the mud because he chose to play tougher competition, all while ignoring all the many great things he did this year, is why I made those tweets.

The same people bashing Tkachuk and trying to marginalize his season are the same guys who bashed Mittelstadt for his USHL 5v5 production, the pull-up and his freshman season. Oh, would you look at that -- Mittelstadt had 5 pts in his first 6 NHL games, and rendered all that nonsense moot.

Tkachuk led his team (an NCAA tournament team) in assists as a freshman -- that is not an easy thing to do -- and without playing on the first line until later in the season. He was tied for 2nd in his conference in freshman scoring, and the guy who was first (Bowers) had only one more point. He's produced the same number of points in the same tournaments as Zadina and Svechnikov. Literally the same tournaments -- U18, U17, U20 -- same competition, all top-line players, all PP1 players -- same production.

I just don't get why people can't say "I like this prospect better but the other guy ain't bad either". NHL scouts are in love with Tkachuk, and for good reason.

I don't know who this Bash Brady Battalion are, but my context was from multiple live viewings and he underwhelmed in all of them I've seen. Brady plays on a stacked BU team that'll consist of mostly future NHLers. Svech and sometimes Zadina make plays happen on their own on teams that'll mostly have players not make pro hockey. I really don't think Brady can be that guy for an organization to start up offensive chances. If anything, I could see him as a middle 6, power grinder that'll agitate opponents yearly. His shot is subpar for a player "ranked" so high. I think he can be a good option outside the Top 10. Otherwise, he really hasn't shown much to be that franchise tagged player or deserving of said high "ranking".

And no, not all of us that don't see Tkachuk being this godsend didn't like Mittelstadt. I, for one, loved Mittelstadt, but just thought there were other players (Petterssen, Glass, Brannstrom, Suzuki) to be better players than him, at the time.

You have a good service with your draft site (and I tend to agree a lot with your analyses), but I really don't agree with you on Tkachuk....

 

[Steve Kournianos]

I'm not saying he's a bad prospect, and I don't think he's going to be a bust. I think saying he's on the same level as Svechnikov and Zadina and would be doing the same things they are in juniors based on U17, U18, and U20 (where Svechnikov didn't get first line or PP1 time for most of the games) is disingenuous because while the quality of competition is similar (Zadina/Svechnikov probably have it harder because Brady doesn't have to play against the US), the quality of their team mates isn't close.

The leading his team in assists thing is fine, but I'm wary on using a season of assists to prove his offensive prowess. Look at Skjei, for example, before and after he was drafted he was never seen as a guy who had any significant offensive upside, his rookie year he scores like 40 points or whatever it was, but someone here crunched the numbers and a lot of them were secondary assists, and to the surprise of some people, he didn't replicate his output again this year.

And I originally had a problem with the list of other players that did something similar to Tkachuk that you tweeted, but I realize it's probably because you want to include players that are currently at their peak/have peaked to give it that kind of context. But I'd rather look at Tkachuk compared to contemporary prospects/players like Keller, Jost, Connor, Boeser, etc.

I don't hate Tkachuk, I just don't see the offensive upside that the people who are high on him see. I think he fits in somewhere in the last half of the top 10 this year, and in regards to this thread and Rangers specific needs there's quite a few other players I'd take over him

The bolded looks like a pretty ridiculous statement. Zadina played on lines with Kaut, Chytil and Necas at every major international tournament. Svechnikov played with Lipanov, Denisenko, Kostin, Chekhovich. I mean, come on. Every kid I listed is either a first rounder, expected first rounder or kids considered legit NHL prospects. Tkachuk played with Josh Norris, Evan Barratt , Sean Dhooghe and Jacob Tortora. Who would you rather play with?

The Russians won the silver at the 2015 U17 Worlds. US didnt medal.

The Czechs will have anywhere from 10-12 draft picks (after this year) from the roster at the U17 and U18s. The NTDP roster from those same tournaments will have 11 or 12, depending on if Hutsko gets drafted.

Keller, Jost, Connor and Boeser were not drafted out of college. They were college freshman after they were drafted. They all played in the USHL or Junior A their draft year. That's a full year's difference.

I listed those former NHL players because they were college freshman. I also have the entire list of every NCAA freshman who was drafted in the first round. The only NCAA freshman forward drafted in the first round in the last 10 years who significantly outproduced Brady Tkachuk (by 10+ points) was Jack Eichel. Jordan Schroeder was second by 14 points.

College coaches don't like entrusting freshman with big minutes. Same goes for the CHL with draft-2 rookies. They play the older guys out of respect and giving them exposure to get signed or drafted. That's why leading your team as a freshman in any major stat category is a big deal. That's why this argument was stupid from the get-go, because so many fans (especially on these boards) value CHL gaudy stats over moderate totals in the USHL and NCAA -- two leagues where clearly and factually more difficult to score in.

It is simply not common in this day and age for an NCAA freshman in his draft year to put up big numbers. Thirty or 40 points in the NCAA as a freshman (against 19-23 year olds) is just as impressive as 70 or 80 points in the CHL against 17-21 year olds. NHL GMs and scouts know that.

Look at Kieffer Bellows. Great, great example, IMO, and not an outlier. Lights up the USHL as a draft-1, lights up the NTDP in his draft year, goes to BU (with Keller as his center) and sucks hard as a freshman, then leaves for the WHL and lights it up.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

I don't know who this Bash Brady Battalion are, but my context was from multiple live viewings and he underwhelmed in all of them I've seen. Brady plays on a stacked BU team that'll consist of mostly future NHLers. Svech and sometimes Zadina make plays happen on their own on teams that'll mostly have players not make pro hockey. I really don't think Brady can be that guy for an organization to start up offensive chances. If anything, I could see him as a middle 6, power grinder that'll agitate opponents yearly. His shot is subpar for a player "ranked" so high. I think he can be a good option outside the Top 10. Otherwise, he really hasn't shown much to be that franchise tagged player or deserving of said high "ranking".

And no, not all of us that don't see Tkachuk being this godsend didn't like Mittelstadt. I, for one, loved Mittelstadt, but just thought there were other players (Petterssen, Glass, Brannstrom, Suzuki) to be better players than him, at the time.

You have a good service with your draft site (and I tend to agree a lot with your analyses), but I really don't agree with you on Tkachuk....

To be fair, I've watched him have bad games. I even tweeted about it early in the season. He looked lost and uncomfortable. But again, there's so much more than just shooting skills.

No mention of his speed for a power winger? Agility? His hands? His vision? Playmaking? His IQ? Reads? Routes? Positioning? Zone entries? Leadership?

He's ranked sixth on my next list, so I too don't see his upside as high as the likes of Svechnikov or Zadina. But the above skills and traits I mentioned when combined into an entire package is why he was ranked second by CSB and why he'll be a top-five pick.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

I agree with what you're saying re: Tkachuk but 6 games really doesn't prove ****.

I agree but that wasn't the point. The point is that Mittelstadt's detractors are slowly but surely fading away, and for a while they were clinging to the freshman year NCAA totals (after exhausting a handful of other reasons to discredit his success).

 

[brians1128]

@Steve Kournianos what's your take on Akil Thomas, Denisenko, and Bokk? They all seem to be ranked around late teens to early 20's, all right handed shots with potential, I would love for the Rangers to land one of them. Denisenko seems like he might fall at the draft (could be completely wrong) but he seems the most skilled out of the 3. Bokk seems like the better shooter out of the trio, and Thomas the best skater and most complete game.

 

[Mac n Gs]

The more I read about Jay O’Brien, the more I want to give him a shot with a 2nd round pick. Was going through the CS euro list before and saw Ivan Mozorov too. Does anyone know anything about him?

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/c-w-ivan-morozov-mamonty-yugry-mhl-2018-draft.2467923/

He looks really interesting in these clips here.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

@Steve Kournianos what's your take on Akil Thomas, Denisenko, and Bokk? They all seem to be ranked around late teens to early 20's, all right handed shots with potential, I would love for the Rangers to land one of them. Denisenko seems like he might fall at the draft (could be completely wrong) but he seems the most skilled out of the 3. Bokk seems like the better shooter out of the trio, and Thomas the best skater and most complete game.

Thomas -- Strong two-way center, can play wing. Not listed as a big kid but plays a power game. Very strong on his skates, very good stickhandler and can pick the corners. Numbers indicate he was more of a pass-first guy but he's not a pure playmaker. Skating speed is decent, not explosive but agile and can protect the puck when he's hounded. Maybe more of a second-line guy than a center you build around.

Denisenko - super skilled, a pure offense-first type winger. Very good controlling the puck and can finish in a variety of ways. Has had some injury issues and hasn't had a run of dominant games, but when he's on he reminds me of William Nylander. Sick hands, very good passer and doesn't need a lot of room to be creative. Has Pastrnak-like potential to be a first-line scorer and a 30-30 guy, but needs to be more consistent. Is a bit of a hot head and vanishes but he is the best player on the ice when he feels like it. Might go as high as the teens but I think the Rangers definitely should target him.

Bokk -- Another wild card but has that game-breaking ability. I'm ignoring his SHL stats. He was dominant in the J20 and for Germany at so many tournaments. Both he and Denisenko would be great compliments to hardcore puck battlers like LA and Chytil. He can pass the puck as well. You won't have him killing penalties or out trying to hold a late lead but his speed, stickhandling and shot are enough to consider him a first rounder with legit top-six upside.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Was going through the CA euro list before and saw Ivan Mozorov too. Does anyone know anything about him?

He was very good at the 5 Nations. Big two way center. Kind of similar to Anisimov, could be a 2nd-3rd rounder.

 

[Lion Hound]

Get your DVR’s ready!!!!

Upcoming calendar for the IIHF U-18’s. Here’s 14 more games, plus a preview show where we fans can watch draft eligibles…you know, so we can’t just base our discussions off what other people think about players.

2018 IIFH U18 Championship: Canada vs. USA from 4/19/2018 10:30AM Replay 7:30PM
2018 IIHF U18 Championship: Switzerland vs. USA from 4/20/2018 6:30AM Replay 7:30PM
2018 IIHF U18 Championship: Canada vs. Belarus from 4/20/2018 10:30AM
2018 IIHF U18 Championship: USA vs. Sweden from 4/22/2018 6:30AM. Replay 7:30PM
2018 IIHF U18 Championship: Switzerland vs. Canada from 4/22/2018 10:30AM
2018 IIHF U18 Championship: Belarus vs. Switzerlands from 4/23/2018 8:30PM
2018 IIHF U18 Championship: USA vs. Belarus from 4/24/2018 6:30AM
2018 IIHF U18 Championship: Sweden vs. Canada from 4/24/2018 10:30AM

2018 IIHF U18 Championship: Quarterfinal #1 from 4/26/2018 6:30AM Replay 8:30PM
2018 IIHF U18 Championship: Quarterfinal #3 from 4/26/2018 10:30AM
2018 IIHF U18 Championship: Semifinal #1 from 4/28/2018 6:30AM Replay 8:30PM
2018 IIHF U18 Championship: Semifinal #2 from 4/28/2018 10:30AM

NHL Tonight: IIHF Men's World Championship Preview 4/28/2018 5:30PM

2018 IIHF U18 Championship: Bronze Medal Game from 4/29/2018 6:30AM
2018 IIHF U18 Championship: Gold Medal Game from 4/29/2018 6:30AM Replay 8:30PM

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Does anyone know if there's an NHL Network stream? I want to be able to watch the replays instead of the live matches, but there's no way that a replay will be listed anywhere where streams are found, so I need a stream for the specific channel.

 

[Irishguy42]

10 days until the lottery.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

My Mock Draft and Top-62 are posted for Sporting News

NHL Draft prospect rankings: Rasmus Dahlin or Andrei Svechnikov? It's 1A vs. 1B atop 2018 class

NHL Mock Draft 2018: Unraveling the mystery beyond Rasmus Dahlin at No. 1

 

[Riche16]

Kovalchuk is a shooter and Zuccarello is a playmaker. I don't see why Kovalchuk being signed would necessarily mean Zuccarello gets traded and I'd be interested to see how they might work with each other. Going forward with Zucc--if he wants to stay with the Rangers bad enough--and I think he does he'll be willing to take a short term (2-3) year contract. Pay him what he's making now or give him a small raise---I think that's fair for his production. Those two together on the powerplay should be really good. Kovalchuk has a tremendous shot and Zuccarello is a great passer. They seem tailor made for each other to me.

Not just about his contract tho... you have to factor in what he's worth as a tradeable asset. Is he worth the pay increase PLUS the loss of said asset(s).

If you're looking to win more games next year and you're planning on signing some FAs (Kovy included there) maybe it makes sense. I'm not sure Gorts feel that way. I'm also not thinking that he wants to LOSE as much as possible either. I just think his plan involves more than resigning Zucc and signing Kovy and hoping that Smith can play D again.

Time will tell.

 

[eco's bones]

Not just about his contract tho... you have to factor in what he's worth as a tradeable asset. Is he worth the pay increase PLUS the loss of said asset(s).

If you're looking to win more games next year and you're planning on signing some FAs (Kovy included there) maybe it makes sense. I'm not sure Gorts feel that way. I'm also not thinking that he wants to LOSE as much as possible either. I just think his plan involves more than resigning Zucc and signing Kovy and hoping that Smith can play D again.

Time will tell.

The Rangers are going to try to put a very competitive team on the ice next year. That is their MO. Whether it will challenge for a playoff spot or even make the playoffs we'll see. I look at what Henrik's has said about next year's team and Gorton's own remarks seem to support that. We'll be a younger team but that doesn't mean we're not going to try to win as many games as possible and it doesn't mean that Gorton's not going to add more veterans like Kovalchuk (if he does sign with us) to the mix.

Looking at where the Rangers are with their prospects--I don't look at even Chytil and Andersson as locks to make the team. I do expect they will spend considerable time with the Rangers next year but I wouldn't rule out they spend some of their time in Hartford too. And that goes for pretty much the rest of our younger players. The quantity and quality of our prospect pipeline has gone way up with the moves at the deadline but the development of those players still is a process. You want to put these players in an environment where they can make a real difference to the team winning games--that's what you need the vets for--to help show the way. Zucc is a good player for that. One of our best personalities and a player who knows what it takes to win and a player who wants to be here. Him and Kovalchuk (if he signs) together could be a really good combination---a playmaker and a shooter.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

My Mock Draft and Top-62 are posted for Sporting News

NHL Draft prospect rankings: Rasmus Dahlin or Andrei Svechnikov? It's 1A vs. 1B atop 2018 class

NHL Mock Draft 2018: Unraveling the mystery beyond Rasmus Dahlin at No. 1

Good stuff as always, thanks for posting Steve.

 

[brians1128]

My Mock Draft and Top-62 are posted for Sporting News

NHL Draft prospect rankings: Rasmus Dahlin or Andrei Svechnikov? It's 1A vs. 1B atop 2018 class

NHL Mock Draft 2018: Unraveling the mystery beyond Rasmus Dahlin at No. 1

@Steve Kournianos Only problem with the draft is you forgot the 30Th and Zucc to Florida for the 15th and take Wilde, and a second and spooner to Toronto for the 25th for Bokk. LOL

 

[Riche16]

The Rangers are going to try to put a very competitive team on the ice next year. That is their MO. Whether it will challenge for a playoff spot or even make the playoffs we'll see. I look at what Henrik's has said about next year's team and Gorton's own remarks seem to support that. We'll be a younger team but that doesn't mean we're not going to try to win as many games as possible and it doesn't mean that Gorton's not going to add more veterans like Kovalchuk (if he does sign with us) to the mix.

Looking at where the Rangers are with their prospects--I don't look at even Chytil and Andersson as locks to make the team. I do expect they will spend considerable time with the Rangers next year but I wouldn't rule out they spend some of their time in Hartford too. And that goes for pretty much the rest of our younger players. The quantity and quality of our prospect pipeline has gone way up with the moves at the deadline but the development of those players still is a process. You want to put these players in an environment where they can make a real difference to the team winning games--that's what you need the vets for--to help show the way. Zucc is a good player for that. One of our best personalities and a player who knows what it takes to win and a player who wants to be here. Him and Kovalchuk (if he signs) together could be a really good combination---a playmaker and a shooter.

I don’t dispute any of that. In fact I agree.

But, we are rebuilding and as such Zucc May hold more value to us as an asset to move up or help acquire a younger player.

I say this as devils advocate because I don’t know. I would also not be surprised if he’s our next captain. It all depends on the market for him and what Gorts and new coach want.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

My Mock Draft and Top-62 are posted for Sporting News

NHL Draft prospect rankings: Rasmus Dahlin or Andrei Svechnikov? It's 1A vs. 1B atop 2018 class

NHL Mock Draft 2018: Unraveling the mystery beyond Rasmus Dahlin at No. 1

I’d place a very large bet on Bouchard not slipping out of the top 10z

 

[YoSoyLalo]

My Mock Draft and Top-62 are posted for Sporting News

NHL Draft prospect rankings: Rasmus Dahlin or Andrei Svechnikov? It's 1A vs. 1B atop 2018 class

NHL Mock Draft 2018: Unraveling the mystery beyond Rasmus Dahlin at No. 1

I’d place a very large bet on Bouchard not slipping out of the top 10

 

[Edge]

I love Farabee, but I'm not sure the Rangers pass on both Dobson and Bouchard to take him.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

I’d place a very large bet on Bouchard not slipping out of the top 10z

Depends. Vilardi slipped because of skating and all the analysts had him in the top 10. I think Bouchard's ability to handle an NHL forecheck is still up in the air. He's turnover prone. Love every other aspect of his game. If I based the rankings of draft season production he'd be a top-4 pick but teams usually dont do that.

 

[doomscroll]

I love Farabee, but I'm not sure the Rangers pass on both Dobson and Bouchard to take him.

Agreed. Adding high-end talent and size to the defense's right side should be the number one priority of the FO, assuming their first pick is outside of the top-two. Use the 8th OA on one of those two (or Boqvist if he is somehow available), and then use 26, 30, 39, and 47 to supplement areas of need (Wing and RHD). Usually picking for need is frowned upon, and often for good reason, but the prospect needs of this organization are so clear-cut (Wing and RD) that using such an assortment of picks between 25-50 in a draft as deep as this should be very beneficial in rounding out the pool.

 

[Savant]

I love Farabee, but I'm not sure the Rangers pass on both Dobson and Bouchard to take him.

I'm starting to feel like it'll be Dobson unless something wacky happens. I don't have any evidence to back it up though.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

I love Farabee, but I'm not sure the Rangers pass on both Dobson and Bouchard to take him.

Eighth is too high for Dobson IMO. And Bouchard's skating will drive this fan base crazy lol. They acquired a bunch of dmen similar to Dobson at the deadline (even though he's a righty). I think two wingers is the way to go (unless Hughes or Boqvist fall), and Tychonick offers a similar skill set to what Bouchard has (faster but smaller). But I wouldn't too upset if they go with Smith, who is my third dman behind Dahlin and Boqvist.