Draft and UDFA Thread 2017-18

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GeorgeKaplan

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Dec 19, 2011
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I know Kaut’s almost a year older in his draft season but the numbers are really impressive. Also when the two have played together at the international level Kaut did outproduce Chytil (although Zadina did help out his production).
Not only Zadina, but with Necas too, and got first unit powerplay time over Chytil. If you go back and watch those games, it’s essentially Chytil trying to do everything by himself because every time Safin or whoever else was with him touched the puck, they’d turn it over
 

Ghost of jas

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Feb 27, 2002
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I don't think Chicago would be able to fit Zuccarello. But that's going to be the most desperate team IMO. Their owner has given Bowman and Quenneville a 1 year reprieve. They don't make the playoffs next year for the second year in a row---I expect they'll be looking for new jobs.

Even with retainage?
 

Ola

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Apr 10, 2004
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Central scouting released their new rankings. Top 15 from eaxh:

International skaters:
Dahlin
Boqvist
Kravtsov
Kaut
Ginning - why?
Kotkaniemi
Denisenko
Lunderstrom
Olofsson
Filip Johansson
Kupari
Bokk
Hallander
Lundkvist
Fehervary

NA:
Svech
Tkachuk
Zadina
Bouchard
Dobson
Hughes
Wahlstrom
Veleno
Hayton
Noel -ugh
Sandin
Farabee
McIsaac
Ty Smith -wow
Akil Thomas

Notables: Wilde (17), Groulx (20), K Miller (23), Jack Drury (27), Merkley (45), Pivonka (105)

I think the others are very influenced by each other, CS is much more independent, for good and bad. I think the spread we see from them compared to the rest is more in line with the spread between NHL teams’ lists.

BTW merge those lists and Kravtsov is right around our territory.

Farabee is really low, are they asking themselves how much talent he really has?
 

Good Intentions

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Mar 30, 2018
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MSL is 5'8"

Martin St-Louis

You are just making yourself look lika a fool, trying to win arguments by changing numbers that are easily accessible.

Unless St. Louis went from 5'8" to 5'3" since he quit playing hockey. Not even my grandma shrank that much in 3 years.

I've had dinner with him. He's 5'3. He wears elevator shoes off the ice, that's how short we're referring to.

Sports 101, the listed height is bogus in many cases. I'm not going to waste any time with you.
 

eco's bones

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Jul 21, 2005
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Even with retainage?

I think you're right--looking at Cap friendly--they could do it and if the cap went up to 80--it wouldn't be that hard. I don't think it will leave them a whole lot left over for other things but they've got a lot of young and cheap to go along with a bunch of old and expensive. Zucc would be an expensive add on and IMO a better course for them would be to try to get at least two--three vet bottom 6 forwards and maybe a d-man.
 

Good Intentions

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Mar 30, 2018
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Maybe you're taller than you think.

Yikes, can I get some help here from anyone that has met MSL? 5-foot-4. No more than 5'5. The "listed" 5'8 figure is an absolute joke. Zucc has 2-3 inches on him, and Zucc is 5'6 on a good day. These are very small men. Nothing wrong with that, I just taking exception to being told I'm wrong when I know for fact otherwise.
 

Irishguy42

Mr. Preachy
Sep 11, 2015
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Using height to argue against the value of players who have already demonstrated their value over lengthy careers is fascinating.

As if their height truly means that much at that point...
 

SnowblindNYR

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Yikes, can I get some help here from anyone that has met MSL? 5-foot-4. No more than 5'5. The "listed" 5'8 figure is an absolute joke. Zucc has 2-3 inches on him, and Zucc is 5'6 on a good day. These are very small men. Nothing wrong with that, I just taking exception to being told I'm wrong when I know for fact otherwise.

I don't man, I'd be happy if someone said I was taller than I think.
 

Edge

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Mar 1, 2002
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I think the others are very influenced by each other, CS is much more independent, for good and bad. I think the spread we see from them compared to the rest is more in line with the spread between NHL teams’ lists.

BTW merge those lists and Kravtsov is right around our territory.

Farabee is really low, are they asking themselves how much talent he really has?

Kravtsov is a guy who I would be the least bit shocked to work his way into the top 10, or even as high as fifth to be honest.
 

bl02

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Jan 13, 2014
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I remember how a lot of us on here (around late late feb/early march) were talking about how exciting about grabbing Kravtsov with our Tampa pick now he's climbing the draft like no one I've ever seen before. Kaut is another one. I guess we should keep our mouth's shut lol. What happened to Denisenko??? Where is he gonna end up?
 

FireGerardGallant

The Artist Formerly known as FireDavidQuinn
Mar 19, 2016
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Were using a players height to judge a players value in 2018? This isn't 2010 anymore. Just look at guys like Sam Girad on Colorado
 

Edge

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I remember how a lot of us on here (around late late feb/early march) were talking about how exciting about grabbing Kravtsov with our Tampa pick now he's climbing the draft like no one I've ever seen before. Kaut is another one. I guess we should keep our mouth's shut lol. What happened to Denisenko??? Where is he gonna end up?

Keep in mind that the ranking don't really mean much until we actually see how the draft unfolds. Kostin was ranked first among Europeans and ended up going 31st. For all the talk about Andersson coming out of nowhere, he was ranked third among European skaters.

Like I've said, anything outside of the top 3 is pretty wide open --- and that was before Tkachuk started gaining upward momentum again.
 

Good Intentions

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Mar 30, 2018
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Hell, look at Ryan Ellis. 5'10" and arguably the best guy on the deepest defense in the NHL

No doubt.

I think we lost sight of the original point, which was that the (successful) longevity of small players is a very difficult curve to navigate. The odds aren't in your favor. MSL was a HOF-player. I know he's 5'4, not 5'8. It does not matter. Zucc has been such an outstanding overachiever, his style and heart makes him potentially fall into a MSL-lite category. Can he be 30-30 for another 3 years? The odds are against him, IMO. I would accept any 1st round pick for him. EDM1 is a dream/no chance. I'd accept any 1st. I'd also be curious to know whether Lundqvist will campaign hard for him to stay. In the end, I believe Zucc stays and Spooner goes. My two cents.
 

Beacon

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A. As I stated, would accept any 2018 1st rounder.
B. I like the suggestion of a 2019 1st. Certainly would accept that.
C. A high-upside forward prospect (unlikely scenario)

As I also mentioned, would be curious to know if Lundqvist makes any bid for his friend #36 staying. Is there a leadership angle? I would think so. Is it a conversation that will be had? I'm not sure.

Why does Zucc bring back less than a Nash or Shatty rental? Your price for Zucc seems to be about the same as for Grabner, who is nowhere near Zucc as a player.
 

Good Intentions

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Why does Zucc bring back less than a Nash or Shatty rental? Your price for Zucc seems to be about the same as for Grabner, who is nowhere near Zucc as a player.

Not sure it's "my price" - I'm certainly not in the know, but it's my interpretation that Nash netted us more than what Zucc would. Part of that may be because there are far fewer 6'4'230 power forwards with hands. Some may be name recognition/respect.

Does anyone believe Zucc is netting 8th overall, or anything very close to it? I don't see it.
 

Fvital92

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Jul 7, 2017
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Why does Zucc bring back less than a Nash or Shatty rental? Your price for Zucc seems to be about the same as for Grabner, who is nowhere near Zucc as a player.
Nash got what he got because of his status in the league, not because of his play. I don't think Zucc is valued like Nash around the league, even though he is the better player nowadays.
 

Mac n Gs

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Jan 17, 2014
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Kravtsov is a guy who I would be the least bit shocked to work his way into the top 10, or even as high as fifth to be honest.
Was actually just getting ready to reply to @Ola the same thing. That playoffs plus exposure during the combine will turn heads. He’s a bull on skates with some slick hands. He’s slippery for his size too
 

Joey Bones

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I like Veleno, don’t love him as much as some others. I think offense at the NHL level is going to be limited.

Hayton would be a solid pick if the Rangers didn’t already have Andersson and Howden. Don’t see them going with him, knowing some of the other guys on the board.

I think Wahlstrom and Dobson are higher on their lists.

Think the Rangers go off the trail with at least one of their later firsts, which will drive this board nuts.

Still put the chances of Zucc being traded at 80 percent.

Think there is a good possibility the Rangers move up from their second drafting spot.

Agreed on some of this. I honestly think that Zucc stays. What are your thoughts on Veleno, then?
 

Joey Bones

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Perhaps.

But this is also a draft that people have been paying attention to for a while and they’ve started to form wish lists. People start to get really attached to the names on their lists and any deviation usually triggers a moderately strong reaction.

When people have a name like Bokk in their head for months, it hits harder if the team goes and takes someone else if he’s still on the board.

Like Brannstrom last draft for HFNYR....
 

Joey Bones

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I'll be totally floored if the Rangers don't take at least one "character guy" with their first 3 picks. It'll send the board into a meltdown, sure, but you need players like that as well and having two other firsts makes it easier to swallow if they pass on high-skill guys.

I wouldn't be surprised if Almeida is high on their radar since he's in his 2nd year of eligibility and if they were keeping tabs on Howden they certainly saw quite a bit of him. Could see them taking him earlier than other teams have him.

Could see both happening, as well.
 

Joey Bones

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Who would fit this mold though besides someone like Hayton? The most high character player in the first round happens to be someone with incredible skill in Farabee, so I could see them reaching for him if anything. Maybe they jump on a kid like Olofsson?

Veleno or Kupari, IMO.
 
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