Doughty Hit on Carrier (UPD: Suspended One Game)

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Doughty is responsible for not hitting him in the head no matter where his head is at.

That's actually not true. But Doughty is responsible for hitting squarely through the body.

If you make solid body contact but the player has put himself in a vulnerable position where head contact is unavoidable, it's still a legal hit.

To me, Carrier put himself in a vulnerable position BUT Doughty poorly timed the hit and ended up picking the head instead of hitting squarely through the body.

And I say this as a fan of Doughty's.

 

[Muston Atthews]

There's nothing clean about a shoulder to the head.

Yes there is. As long as the head isn’t the principle point of contact you can hit someone’s head with your shoulder all you want

 

[Bingo71]

It’s obvious that the Knight’s MO was to target Doughty all game and it worked. It got in his head and agitated him and caused him to do this.

I just get so sick of fan bases yelling “dirty hit” when someone hits a player on their team and then yelling “keep your head up son” when their player hits someone else.

I don’t know, the hit by Doughty certainly wasn’t the dirtiest I’ve seen but I think there is little doubt that he knew who it was and wanted to get a little “payback”.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That's actually not true. But Doughty is responsible for hitting squarely through the body.

If you make solid body contact but the player has put himself in a vulnerable position where head contact is unavoidable, it's still a legal hit.

To me, Carrier put himself in a vulnerable position BUT Doughty poorly timed the hit and ended up picking the head instead of hitting squarely through the body.

And I say this as a fan of Doughty's.

That is only the case if the head changes position immediately prior to contact being made. That is simply not the case here.

Yes there is. As long as the head isn’t the principle point of contact you can hit someone’s head with your shoulder all you want

Then that's not a shoulder to the head is it? That's a body check. This is not a body check. This is a shoulder to the head.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

That's actually not true. But Doughty is responsible for hitting squarely through the body.

If you make solid body contact but the player has put himself in a vulnerable position where head contact is unavoidable, it's still a legal hit.

To me, Carrier put himself in a vulnerable position BUT Doughty poorly timed the hit and ended up picking the head instead of hitting squarely through the body.

And I say this as a fan of Doughty's.

Pretty much this, at first, I wanted to see it again, I thought Carrier might have pulled up last second to make a move, and that's what caused it, but no, Doughty just mis-timed it and glanced off the shoulder

 

[Daz28]

Yes there is. As long as the head isn’t the principle point of contact you can hit someone’s head with your shoulder all you want

So are you saying the principal point of contact was the shoulder? Seems like you're just nit-picking.

 

[fsanford]

Did you even watch the game? Twice the Kings player hooked a Knight so hard it ripped the stick out of their own hands. One was a break, and no calls. Fleury was running around with no helmet, and the wanted a Kings goal so bad they wouldn't blow the whistle. It's gonna be really hard for the refs to continue to try to keep the Kings in this series w/o it becoming obvious. If they don't, the Knights will blow them away. As for a suspension, he deserves it, but I'll be shocked if it's more than a meaningless fine. As for the "contact" part, he maybe barely grazed his shoulder. 99% of the force was applied to Carrier's head.

Love this about the playoff's the conspiracy theorist come out and present these insane arguments.
Thanks for the good laugh.

 

[Fogelhund]

There will have to be some action on this. Fine, or one game suspension... At this point, the liability of a hit to the head, not punished, make very poor optics, and could have legal repercussions. Intent or not, is not relevant.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

1 game would be fine, but I suspect they leave it at a fine and a talking to.

Either way, Doughty making a hit like this has to be seen as a win for the Knights. Carrier played his role to a tee last night and if he can continue to get under Doughty's skin, the Kings will have much a tougher time getting back into it and winning this series.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

That is only the case if the head changes position immediately prior to contact being made. That is simply not the case here.



Then that's not a shoulder to the head is it? That's a body check. This is not a body check. This is a shoulder to the head.

I agree that his head didn't change position with this hit.

But you can still throw a legal check that makes head contact without the head materially changing position immediately prior to contact IF the player puts himself in a vulnerable position where head contact is unavoidable.

To be clear, I think this hit meets the criteria for illegal check to the head. Just clarifying the current rule.

 

[HanSolo]

And if Carrier had his head up, he wouldn't have....

Enough already. That's an old adage used to denote that if you keep your head up, you won't get demolished by a-usually clean-hit.

A player having his head down does not excuse reckless behavior. A player cannot be expected to have his head on a 360 swivel at all times. Carrier was struggling to settle the puck and passed it off. Doughty didn't give him enough time to look and even if he had it doesn't matter. You've been told, and it's completely true, that if the hitting player has time and foresight to adjust a hit accordingly, it's his responsibility to avoid contact to the head. Doughty had time. More than enough to minimize risk. He shouldn't have been aiming that high in the first place.

 

[Muston Atthews]

So are you saying the principal point of contact was the shoulder? Seems like you're just nit-picking.

Yes. I don’t see how it’s nitpicking when one play is legal and the other is not

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yes there is. As long as the head isn’t the principle point of contact you can hit someone’s head with your shoulder all you want

Principle point of contact is no longer in the rule.

The key criteria based on the rule and how the DoPS has tended to enforce it is whether the player hit squarely through the body.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I agree that his head didn't change position with this hit.

But you can still throw a legal check that makes head contact without the head materially changing position immediately prior to contact IF the player puts himself in a vulnerable position where head contact is unavoidable.

To be clear, I think this hit meets the criteria for illegal check to the head. Just clarifying the current rule.

The only way someone can throw a legal check that makes head contact is if it's a full body check. That's true regardless of head position. However, again, that doesn't apply here.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Enough already. That's an old adage used to denote that if you keep your head up, you won't get demolished by a-usually clean-hit.

A player having his head down does not excuse reckless behavior. A player cannot be expected to have his head on a 360 swivel at all times. Carrier was struggling to settle the puck and passed it off. Doughty didn't give him enough time to look and even if he had it doesn't matter. You've been told, and it's completely true, that if the hitting player has time and foresight to adjust a hit accordingly, it's his responsibility to avoid contact to the head. Doughty had time. More than enough to minimize risk. He shouldn't have been aiming that high in the first place.

A player with the puck is expected to have his head on a swivel, hence keep your head up.

 

[Daz28]

Love this about the playoff's the conspiracy theorist come out and present these insane arguments.
Thanks for the good laugh.

Duhhrrr, it's only a conspiracy if everyone didn't see it. Try and tell me what I said didn't happen, and watch you get laughed off the boards.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The only way someone can throw a legal check that makes head contact is if it's a full body check. That's true regardless of head position. However, again, that doesn't apply here.

Right.

I think we're saying the same thing. And I agree it doesn't apply here.

 

[Anglesmith]

Doughty is responsible for not hitting him in the head no matter where his head is at.

This isn't true, actually. It is in international play, but under NHL rules, hitting the head is not, in and of itself, illegal.

What makes this illegal isn't just that he hit him in the head, but the fact that he did so instead of hitting the body. If it's a hit where the head can't be avoided in making the check, or where the head is moved suddenly into the path of the hit, then there is no foul play. But on this play, Doughty ducks the shoulder of Carrier in order to deliver the hit to the head. One of the more telling features of hits like these where you know that it's a bad hit is just looking at the momentum of the two players. A body-check between two heavy guys like this would alter the momentum of both players significantly. When a player picks the head, they are exerting the impact on just the head, which is obviously much lighter than the body delivering the blow. To make the head travel at the same speed as Doughty's body, very little of Doughty's momentum needs to be imparted, which is why he continues on without being significantly slowed up by the hit.

 

[fsanford]

Big decision, a suspension probably decides the series. If Doughty is suspended and the Kings manage to win game 2 (which would be doubtful) Kings would gave major momentum and probably win the series

If Doughty is suspended and Knights go up 2-o, pretty hard for the Kings to come back on a team the rolls what amounts to 4 second lines.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

A player with the puck is expected to have his head on a swivel, hence keep your head up.

A player with the puck is not fair game to hit anywhere and anyway no matter what you think.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Enough already. That's an old adage used to denote that if you keep your head up, you won't get demolished by a-usually clean-hit.

A player having his head down does not excuse reckless behavior. A player cannot be expected to have his head on a 360 swivel at all times. Carrier was struggling to settle the puck and passed it off. Doughty didn't give him enough time to look and even if he had it doesn't matter. You've been told, and it's completely true, that if the hitting player has time and foresight to adjust a hit accordingly, it's his responsibility to avoid contact to the head. Doughty had time. More than enough to minimize risk. He shouldn't have been aiming that high in the first place.

Wait, what? Doughty didn't give him enough time to look? Look at what? He's entering the offensive zone ffs, what do you think is going to happen when you do that?

Shouldn't have been aiming that high? Ok, fine, he will aim at his ankles next....

Man, some of the hyperbole in this post alone is enough to make people's head spin, you would think Doughty jumped out of the air with a lightning bolt and tagged Carrier on the shin....

Carrier has a responsibility to keep his head up, just like Doughty has a responsiblity to time the hit correctly and angle the hit correctly, neither did that, but man....cmon

 

[Fire Benning]

One game would seem appropriate.

 

[IceNeophyte]

And if Carrier had his head up, he wouldn't have....

Is "The checker is responsible for avoiding hits to the head" that difficult a concept to understand?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This isn't true, actually. It is in international play, but under NHL rules, hitting the head is not, in and of itself, illegal.

What makes this illegal isn't just that he hit him in the head, but the fact that he did so instead of hitting the body. If it's a hit where the head can't be avoided in making the check, or where the head is moved suddenly into the path of the hit, then there is no foul play. But on this play, Doughty ducks the shoulder of Carrier in order to deliver the hit to the head. One of the more telling features of hits like these where you know that it's a bad hit is just looking at the momentum of the two players. A body-check between two heavy guys like this would alter the momentum of both players significantly. When a player picks the head, they are exerting the impact on just the head, which is obviously much lighter than the body delivering the blow. To make the head travel at the same speed as Doughty's body, very little of Doughty's momentum needs to be imparted, which is why he continues on without being significantly slowed up by the hit.

You're just repeating the semantics game someone else posted before you. Doughty is responsible for not hitting someone in the head. That is meant to say that he mostly gets the head or only gets the head hence why it's being referred to as a shoulder to the head. A full body check is not a shoulder to the head.

 

[Daz28]

Yes. I don’t see how it’s nitpicking when one play is legal and the other is not

lol, you may have to give me your definition of what principal is. He barely grazed his shoulder. I think you mean initial, but that doesn't matter if the initial contact is only on the fabric of the jersey.