Doug Armstrong Question

AjaxManifesto

Pro sports is becoming predictable and boring
Mar 9, 2016
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You mean there's been something positive about this team? Some glimmer of promise or hope that they're moving in the right direction or that things will get better? Maybe in a few years when they decide to blow up the team and start over. If Stillman does some major moves in the offseason I won't be shocked, there needs to be an answer to this but Mike Yeo will still be coach and even if he's somehow not, you got a Dog & Pony show for a coaching staff and a team that's looking gutted out with no ready-to-go replacements in sight. That's not how you build a contender and I'm pretty much done with this team at this point. "Maybe Next Year" has become their slogan and I'm not hearing it anymore until I actually see it.

As sports fans we live on hope. There can be only one winner. Season after season we hope it's us. I'm hopeful that missing the playoffs is the spark that gets things going.
 
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TK 421

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Sep 12, 2007
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Most of us have seen the pics of Armstrong's face in our last 2 losses and you have to think the results this year are weighing heavily on him. Which is fair considering he was responsible for the extensions to Yeo, Allen Berglund, Lehtera...etc. The injuries were completely out of his control however and while I do think his premature extensions have been counter productive I can't help but feel some sympathy for him. I can't stand Yeo as a coach but I feel sympathy for him as well.

Armstrong must be feeling especially bad atm because he actually was in a position to make a trade to try and turn things around and didn't. I know we as a fan base were divided about adding or staying pat at the deadline but I still think he made the right call. Trading Stastny was also the right call as much as I don't like admitting it. Foley and a late 1st was a great return for an impending UFA who we most likely weren't looking to re-sign anyway. I know it hurts this year but if Foley helps us get faster and more tenacious next year and the Winnipeg 1st can be used as a chip to acquire a top 6 player then we'll be able to look back on this season as a bump in the road.

I think this off season will be Armstrong's most aggressive to date and will see us in much, much better shape next year. How far will that take us? I'm skeptical to say the least. I've made it very clear how little faith I have in Yeo so despite all the personnel changes I anticipate, I'm finding it really difficult to see a return to the PO's in what promises to be another dogfight in the Central.

This off season is going to be really tough to stomach so please just remember to be kind to your fellow Blues fans. Lots of uncertainty, anger and a general feeling of helplessness will be going on with our fans and it would be a kindness to just remember that before responding to a different opinion with a snappy response.
 

BlueDream

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Aug 30, 2011
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Most of us have seen the pics of Armstrong's face in our last 2 losses and you have to think the results this year are weighing heavily on him. Which is fair considering he was responsible for the extensions to Yeo, Allen Berglund, Lehtera...etc. The injuries were completely out of his control however and while I do think his premature extensions have been counter productive I can't help but feel some sympathy for him. I can't stand Yeo as a coach but I feel sympathy for him as well.

Armstrong must be feeling especially bad atm because he actually was in a position to make a trade to try and turn things around and didn't. I know we as a fan base were divided about adding or staying pat at the deadline but I still think he made the right call. Trading Stastny was also the right call as much as I don't like admitting it. Foley and a late 1st was a great return for an impending UFA who we most likely weren't looking to re-sign anyway. I know it hurts this year but if Foley helps us get faster and more tenacious next year and the Winnipeg 1st can be used as a chip to acquire a top 6 player then we'll be able to look back on this season as a bump in the road.

I think this off season will be Armstrong's most aggressive to date and will see us in much, much better shape next year. How far will that take us? I'm skeptical to say the least. I've made it very clear how little faith I have in Yeo so despite all the personnel changes I anticipate, I'm finding it really difficult to see a return to the PO's in what promises to be another dogfight in the Central.

This off season is going to be really tough to stomach so please just remember to be kind to your fellow Blues fans. Lots of uncertainty, anger and a general feeling of helplessness will be going on with our fans and it would be a kindness to just remember that before responding to a different opinion with a snappy response.
The good news is that Yeo should undoubtedly be on the hot seat next season. If it's December and the Blues look like they might be fighting to make the playoffs, he should be canned. The roster has its flaws but nobody in this organization should view missing the playoffs 2 years in a row as acceptable. That cannot happen.

We've seen it with Payne and Hitchcock - Doug Armstrong isn't afraid to fire a coach if things aren't going well. Yeo has a year and a half under his belt now, with questionable results. Give him another half season at most, and if the team still looks like crap, that's easily enough time to justify letting him go, and I think Armstrong would do it.

The other good news is that acquiring at least one top 6 player - if not two - should be a guarantee, because we have the assets. So at least we don't have to say "if we can acquire a guy." It's WHEN we acquire one. No excuses.

I go back and forth between being optimistic and pessimistic as I'm sure we all do. The team has its issues. But we still aren't in a bad spot. Just need a good offseason with a couple key moves.
 

simon IC

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Most of us have seen the pics of Armstrong's face in our last 2 losses and you have to think the results this year are weighing heavily on him. Which is fair considering he was responsible for the extensions to Yeo, Allen Berglund, Lehtera...etc. The injuries were completely out of his control however and while I do think his premature extensions have been counter productive I can't help but feel some sympathy for him. I can't stand Yeo as a coach but I feel sympathy for him as well.

Armstrong must be feeling especially bad atm because he actually was in a position to make a trade to try and turn things around and didn't. I know we as a fan base were divided about adding or staying pat at the deadline but I still think he made the right call. Trading Stastny was also the right call as much as I don't like admitting it. Foley and a late 1st was a great return for an impending UFA who we most likely weren't looking to re-sign anyway. I know it hurts this year but if Foley helps us get faster and more tenacious next year and the Winnipeg 1st can be used as a chip to acquire a top 6 player then we'll be able to look back on this season as a bump in the road.

I think this off season will be Armstrong's most aggressive to date and will see us in much, much better shape next year. How far will that take us? I'm skeptical to say the least. I've made it very clear how little faith I have in Yeo so despite all the personnel changes I anticipate, I'm finding it really difficult to see a return to the PO's in what promises to be another dogfight in the Central.

This off season is going to be really tough to stomach so please just remember to be kind to your fellow Blues fans. Lots of uncertainty, anger and a general feeling of helplessness will be going on with our fans and it would be a kindness to just remember that before responding to a different opinion with a snappy response.
Excellent post, thanks for stating this! I think we all need an occasional reminder. Oh well, draft is coming up, um, relatively soon ... :)
 

Thallis

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Jan 23, 2010
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You mean there's been something positive about this team? Some glimmer of promise or hope that they're moving in the right direction or that things will get better? Maybe in a few years when they decide to blow up the team and start over. If Stillman does some major moves in the offseason I won't be shocked, there needs to be an answer to this but Mike Yeo will still be coach and even if he's somehow not, you got a Dog & Pony show for a coaching staff and a team that's looking gutted out with no ready-to-go replacements in sight. That's not how you build a contender and I'm pretty much done with this team at this point. "Maybe Next Year" has become their slogan and I'm not hearing it anymore until I actually see it.

The defense is still very good and we have decent pieces and youth to build around. You can't have a Stanley Cup team without contributing young players anymore. It's a reality of the cap era now that the contracts with infinite term are gone.
 

simon IC

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I think any discussion about Armstrong's future, at this point, is purely academic. He just signed an extension, and from what I have read, Stillman seems to really like him. DA is not going anywhere, anytime soon. Yeo, is a completely different matter. I think he should be gone already, but Armstrong won't fire him because it will simply make our GM look bad. Given Armstrong's demeanor after this teams recent failures, however , I imagine Yeo is now on a very short leash. He will be given just enough rope to hang himself, and I'm certain he will.
 

mk80

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Jul 30, 2012
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I have been (and still am) a huge critic of Armstrong. I'd personally love to see the team go a different direction (and still can't believe we passed up Jarmo Kekalainen), however that's all for not as he is beginning his 4 year extension.

I will say this his recent moves I have really liked. He moved Lehtera and our 1st rounder for Schenn which is a huge plus. With the spiral that we took this season moving Stastny to recoup a first round pick and a good prospect in Eric Foley was a great decision. Trading Shattenkirk was also the right decision.

That said and as I stated I am a critic, we still need to hold him accountable for questionable moves:

For example: If we look back to the years of first round exits to the Kings, Hawks, etc. We were all saying move on from Hitch then and DA kept up those 1 year contracts, which the final led to the assistant coaches leaving and pursuing other positions and put us in a corner where we had to commit ourselves to a coach that would take over from Hitch and forced us into Yeo. Regarding Shattenkirk he should have been traded at the draft or summer before that season.

In addition I also feel DA was/is behind the time on transitioning to speed and skill which most of the league was doing those 1 year contract years, it's why teams like Nashville, Winnipeg, heck Colorado last night, Dallas, etc. all our a bit ahead of us currently with their rosters. I expected the step back to go forward so ultimatel I'm ok with the long summer this season. As I said while I still hold Armstrong accountable for some things, I have felt much more confident in his recent moves.
 

AjaxManifesto

Pro sports is becoming predictable and boring
Mar 9, 2016
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I think any discussion about Armstrong's future, at this point, is purely academic. He just signed an extension, and from what I have read, Stillman seems to really like him. DA is not going anywhere, anytime soon. Yeo, is a completely different matter. I think he should be gone already, but Armstrong won't fire him because it will simply make our GM look bad. Given Armstrong's demeanor after this teams recent failures, however , I imagine Yeo is now on a very short leash. He will be given just enough rope to hang himself, and I'm certain he will.

My prediction: if the PP and secondary scoring are bad in Nov & Dec 2018 Yeo is fired.
 

Bluesguru

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Aug 10, 2014
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You hit on something here: Armstrong at the deadline has been a seller rather than buyer for the last two seasons. As Blues fans we always expect to make the playoffs (no matter how flawed the team is), but upper management by their actions is telling us "we don't think this is the year".

It's a mystery. Armstrong always says he has a now plan, a next year plan, and a five year plan (I paraphrase here and may have the exact years wrong); anyhow, I'd love to hear what those plans are. Obviously the ownership thinks its a winner; hence, his big GM contract extension that was signed this season.

Good memory! Noticed he didn't bring that up this year - ha
When he got signed to his extension this year, missing the playoffs this year was the furthest thing from anyone's mind.
 

Renard

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Nov 14, 2011
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St. Louis, MO
The Blues front office, regardless what they say, has no interest in winning it all. They seem to be clinging on to the belief that they can draft all their solutions and ELC them on the cheap or acquire players for cheap that will take the place of top line talent. It is an easier road to train a D Corps than a talented, dynamic Offense, which is why the Blues have more of one than the other. They need to pay for the pieces they're missing and hopefully they can acquire them. Doug Armstrong is good only for a team that rebuilds, nothing more, nothing less. Mike Yeo is the most useless coach this side of useless. There is no such thing as a Year 3 Retool, yet here we are. The front office has proven that they are incapable of solving problems detrimental to the team in a timely fashion. Drafting a solution can take years and when you have a core, you build on it ASAP and make the years count. It's ridiculous beyond words that the Blues spend to the Cap and are where they are at now. With the money spent and the players they have drafted, there is still a large hole at C, even when Stastny was here. The team still suffers from horrible lack of Offense and now has a PP unit that is beyond useless.

Every point you have made is spot-on. The fanbase continues to allow for a next year when that nonsense should have stopped a long, long time ago. The front office is allowed to continue this nonsense and the team is getting worse. I am about done with the level of blatant stupidity that the team is handing down to the players, yet expecting them to go out there and give it their all 82 games a year while the Front Office has given up on the team by the TDL, like they did this year. They threw in the towel and didn't even try to help better the team's chances. Whatever they said they did, I flat out don't believe them. I don't see the desire to win in them and I don't see the front office giving them the tools to compete. I've lived long enough to see this team for a good period of time and I'm done with the half-heart, half attempt, not-good enough, mismanaged mess that has become this Franchise's identity. The success of many teams stem from this team's failure and I'm tired of being represented by that.

If nothing happens in this offseason, I'm done with this team. Stillman says he's such a fan, I want to see him prove it and I'm sorry, I'm not seeing it, nor do I think we will see it.

This is nonsense.

We are all disappointed with the past season, but you have given in to despair.

A healthy Robbie Fabbri and a more consistent Jake
Allen would have made a lot of difference in the team's record.
 

TheDizee

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kimzey59

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a more consistent Jake
Allen would have made a lot of difference in the team's record.

At this point; I find believing in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and a werewolf being the fix to our offense to be more realistic than Jake Allen finding any level of consistency.
 

Renard

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Nov 14, 2011
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At this point; I find believing in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and a werewolf being the fix to our offense to be more realistic than Jake Allen finding any level of consistency.

The Blues, despite all the injury misfortune, the weak goaltending at time, the trade off of Stastny, finished with 44 wins and 32 losses. We were closer to the top in the division than we were at the bottom, and have some outstanding prospects.

Its tempting to be sarcastic, but I prefer to look for forward to next season.

As far as Jake Allen is concerned, I maintain that no one can predict goaltending. Do you remember the horrible December and January of 2016-2017 that Carey Price had for Montreal? It was at least as bad as Allen's February of this season.
 

GoldenSeal

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This is nonsense.

We are all disappointed with the past season, but you have given in to despair.

A healthy Robbie Fabbri and a more consistent Jake
Allen would have made a lot of difference in the team's record.

I'll leave this here and let you and others really ponder on your words. You'll notice a disturbing trend that we tend to lose the players that become lynchpins to winning Cups, something that I as a player would also do if the team isn't showing me that they're dedicated to winning. You'll also notice some other things. This team's legacy and real problem is that the front office can't learn from past mistakes and continue to repeat them, decade after decade.

So, after watching this, show me where the front office has shown a desire to win? The Lauries are the last and really the only one who seriously pulled out all the stops and pursued the Cup, and had they owned the team another 5 years, we'd have a Cup and honestly, Demitra might still be alive. That's a really crazy thought to think about.

 

Bluesnatic27

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Aug 5, 2011
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So, after watching this, show me where the front office has shown a desire to win? The Lauries are the last and really the only one who seriously pulled out all the stops and pursued the Cup...

You want me show you where the Blues have shown a desire to win?

Okay. The Lauries pulled out all the stops in hopes of winning a Stanley Cup. That wasn't so hard.
 

Dbrownss

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
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I'll leave this here and let you and others really ponder on your words. You'll notice a disturbing trend that we tend to lose the players that become lynchpins to winning Cups, something that I as a player would also do if the team isn't showing me that they're dedicated to winning. You'll also notice some other things. This team's legacy and real problem is that the front office can't learn from past mistakes and continue to repeat them, decade after decade.

So, after watching this, show me where the front office has shown a desire to win? The Lauries are the last and really the only one who seriously pulled out all the stops and pursued the Cup, and had they owned the team another 5 years, we'd have a Cup and honestly, Demitra might still be alive. That's a really crazy thought to think about.


I'm not really sure what you want the front office to do outside of spend to the cap. You can blame roster construction all day long but that's ultimately on the GM. Even then...there's no guarantee it's going to work. No one can definitely say a roster is going to win a cup today. Look at f***ing Vegas. Literally everyone figured that was a lottery team and many thought Dallas was going to make a spash.....yea.

You can be upset with the results but I find it wrong to question the desire of management. I'd argue with the shift in drafting and trade targets, management is looking to break the cycle of "the big bad Blues".
 
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Majorityof1

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I'm not really sure what you want the front office to do outside of spend to the cap. You can blame roster construction all day long but that's ultimately on the GM. Even then...there's no guarantee it's going to work. No one can definitely say a roster is going to win a cup today. Look at ****ing Vegas. Literally everyone figured that was a lottery team and many thought Dallas was going to make a spash.....yea.

You can be upset with the results but I find it wrong to question the desire of management. I'd argue with the shift in drafting and trade targets, management is looking to break the cycle of "the big bad Blues".

"Never let truth get in the way of a good story." - Mark Twain
 

simon IC

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I'm not really sure what you want the front office to do outside of spend to the cap. You can blame roster construction all day long but that's ultimately on the GM. Even then...there's no guarantee it's going to work. No one can definitely say a roster is going to win a cup today. Look at ****ing Vegas. Literally everyone figured that was a lottery team and many thought Dallas was going to make a spash.....yea.

You can be upset with the results but I find it wrong to question the desire of management. I'd argue with the shift in drafting and trade targets, management is looking to break the cycle of "the big bad Blues".
We haven't been "big" or "bad" for quite some time now.
 

David Dennison

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I think that there are fair criticisms of Army (mostly signing middling, aging, replaceable talent to medium/large deals), but trading away Shatty and Stastny at the deadline arent one of them. The Blues roster has shed a lot of good veteran players since 15-16 when we lost in the conference finals (in addition to Fabbri injuries and the decline of former key guys like Bouw/Steen), I think he was right to make the call that we were better off re-tooling for a couple of years rather than going for it with worse odds than the year before.

IMO, despite missing the playoffs, the Blues seem to be on more stable footing going forward than we were a year ago at this point. Addition of Schenn, emergence of Dunn (and even continued development of Edmundson/Parayko), more cap space to add a player, better depth, and some high potential young guys in our back pocket who could contribute (Thomas, Kyrou, even throw Fabbri in there since he hasnt played in a year and a half).
 
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LetsGoBooze

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IMO, despite missing the playoffs, the Blues seem to be on more stable footing going forward than we were a year ago at this point. Addition of Schenn, emergence of Dunn (and even continued development of Edmundson/Parayko), more cap space to add a player, better depth, and some high potential young guys in our back pocket who could contribute (Thomas, Kyrou, even throw Fabbri in there since he hasnt played in a year and a half).

Completely agree, and moving Shatty and Stastny helped with the renaissance of our farm system and opening up opportunities to trade for impact players (Schenn, and possible moving of the Jets 1st).
 
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