Don Cherry/Sidney Crosby

[Vlad The Impaler]

There are meaningless regular season games too. You can't say one game is meaningless and others not when the definition clearly fits them.

I dunno. It's your team. Of course you have to pace yourself. Players (like Mario, an easy example) will miss regular games (preferably against weak opponents and away). But no regular season game is truly meaningless.

The CHL top prospect game is CLEARLY meaningless as far as team spirit is concerned. And I am of the opinion that team spirit should rule hockey. The top prospect game is a very selfish event. It is a very good, can't miss event if you want to impress the scouting community. Which is why anyone interested in a NHL career should do his best to attend.

But it has almost nothing to do with hockey. Hockey is about winning games, as a team. It's about the crest, it's about your teammates. It's not about playing on a line with complete strangers that you may never play with (or even talk to) again in what amounts to a show for scouts.

The fact it is meaningless doesn't mean it is meaningless that Crosby missed it. Every game you play helps you. It would definitly have been preferable for him to play. For some reason or another (some will say justified, others disagree) he didn't. That's too bad for him. But the game remains very much meaningless on a hockey level.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

To some degree, especially the part of the jersey and logo you play for, you're absolutely right. It is rather meaningless.

I look at the Top Prospects Game kinda like a "Last Chance for Gas" sign when you're on the highway. After this game, you have to know that some people will only remember you by what you did here, while others will continue to follow your path. Still others have already made up their minds about you. Just like your gas tank. It's either full and you ignore the last gas sign, somewhere in the middle and you decide if it's worth it to stop now or wait it out, or you're close to empty and you absolutely stop for gas.

A guy like Crosby has a full tank. He doesn't need to stop. A guy like Zagrapan, who also played in the WJC, could probably stop for a little gas, but he's already got enough to get to his destination. A guy like Brule, who is still burning over not one but TWO snubs (no invite to the Canadian WJC, which is still an issue, and a drop to No. 6 in the latest rankings), should really stop for a fill-up in order to ensure a long, successful journey.

 

[hfboardsuser]

First of all, nice to see a well thought-out to response. Kudos to you.

You and I have differing opinions on what rules hockey. Team spirit is important, yes, but I think it's more about playing every chance you get (within reason)- especially if you're representing your league and essentially draft class in the Top Prospects game. That is honor, and not one to be taken lightly. My view on this comes from playing on a lot of losing teams throughout my life. I've found that even though my team may lose, if I've given my absolute best effort in a blowout, it's nothing to be ashamed about.

I say within reason because, as you pointed out, players with chronic medical conditions like Lemieux are prevented from doing so. Remember, he's also an old man by NHL standards.

But it seems to me that Crosby was not suffering from any ailment that didn't allow him to play in the Top Prospects game. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here- that's just the way it looks to me. If that is the case, there is no excuse. You may think the game is meaningless- but to me it is not.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The kid made a decision. Whether right or wrong, whether you see something wrong with it or not, he stuck to his decision. Perhaps it's not unlike Wayne Gretzky calling the Devils a "Mickey Mouse" operation. We look back now and laugh at that comment. Perhaps it's not unlike Mario Lemieux standing up on draft day but not joining the Pens table because he was in a contract dispute with them. Again, now we look back in laughter.

Down the road, I think we'll all laugh about the great Crosby injury-gate debate and laugh.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

First of all, nice to see a well thought-out to response. Kudos to you.

You and I have differing opinions on what rules hockey. Team spirit is important, yes, but I think it's more about playing every chance you get (within reason)- especially if you're representing your league and essentially draft class in the Top Prospects game. That is honor, and not one to be taken lightly. My view on this comes from playing on a lot of losing teams throughout my life. I've found that even though my team may lose, if I've given my absolute best effort in a blowout, it's nothing to be ashamed about.

I say within reason because, as you pointed out, players with chronic medical conditions like Lemieux are prevented from doing so. Remember, he's also an old man by NHL standards.

But it seems to me that Crosby was not suffering from any ailment that didn't allow him to play in the Top Prospects game. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here- that's just the way it looks to me. If that is the case, there is no excuse. You may think the game is meaningless- but to me it is not.

I respect your opinion. For the record, I think it's WRONG if he didn't attend but could. I just sincerely have no reason to doubt that he was banged up. How banged up? I dunno.

I completely disagree with those who say he could skip the game simply because of injury risks or other stuff. If you can play, you should play (if you are interested in being drafted, of course). I just think he was banged up. Could definitly have played if it was an important game but didn't. That is of course just my opinion. I base it on the fact I find that game somewhat important. Important enough that you can't miss it just because you're the concensus #1. I just can't imagine his agent "suggesting" that he misses an event like that.

So while I still maintain it is meaningless, I don't want to make it sound like you can skip just about any event whenever you feel like. Banged up or not, he really should have tried to warn people more in advance. But since I don't know exactly how the whole situation played out, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on that one. Maybe the situation developed rapidly and the decision couldn't be taken earlier.

 

[WADEugottaBELAKthat]

Why does Sidney Crosby have to act as though he's a normal player? He's not.

The prospects game is of no bearing to his draft status. He knows this as well as anyone. Furthermore, it is possible that he is such a team player that he is resting to help the the cause that currently means the most to him...the Oceanic. Not that far-fetched.

 

[SwisshockeyAcademy]

First of all, nice to see a well thought-out to response. Kudos to you.

You and I have differing opinions on what rules hockey. Team spirit is important, yes, but I think it's more about playing every chance you get (within reason)- especially if you're representing your league and essentially draft class in the Top Prospects game. That is honor, and not one to be taken lightly. My view on this comes from playing on a lot of losing teams throughout my life. I've found that even though my team may lose, if I've given my absolute best effort in a blowout, it's nothing to be ashamed about.

I say within reason because, as you pointed out, players with chronic medical conditions like Lemieux are prevented from doing so. Remember, he's also an old man by NHL standards.

But it seems to me that Crosby was not suffering from any ailment that didn't allow him to play in the Top Prospects game. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here- that's just the way it looks to me. If that is the case, there is no excuse. You may think the game is meaningless- but to me it is not.

Were you one of the promoters of this game? Not many people other than players would say the game is not meaningless to them. ( Some scouts, players parents etc.)

 

[daver]

Long time lurker, few time poster.

I have followed Crosby for a few years and find it very interesting to see how he does at each step up. Pretty good so far. What is just as interesting is the hype, media coverage and fishbowl environment surrounding him, and how he and his "entourage", for lack of a better term, handle it.

I am amazed at the apparent dislike for him when he does something questionable. I can attribute this only to envy. People want to see him either fail to live up to expectations or have such an ego that he's hard to like, so it brings him back to their own level of hockey inadequacy or lack of public recognition. I guess this a reality he has to face but it is a pretty sad commentary.

 

[Sammy*]

Long time lurker, few time poster.

I have followed Crosby for a few years and find it very interesting to see how he does at each step up. Pretty good so far. What is just as interesting is the hype, media coverage and fishbowl environment surrounding him, and how he and his "entourage", for lack of a better term, handle it.

I am amazed at the apparent dislike for him when he does something questionable. I can attribute this only to envy. People want to see him either fail to live up to expectations or have such an ego that he's hard to like, so it brings him back to their own level of hockey inadequacy or lack of public recognition. I guess this a reality he has to face but it is a pretty sad commentary.

Do you consider Cherrys arguably meritorious crtisicims (all of 2 to my knowledge) exibiting apparent dislike. I dont.
Imo, I think alot of posters get their back up wher there may be a valid critisimm of Crosby ( I am only aware of 2 facts that may give rise to comment).,who are then attacked in the fashion that you have here. I dunno, maybe fanboys really dont like anything but glowing commentary for their heros. I attribute that to immaturity or a lack of success in their own life so as to try to live through someone who is acheiving something. I guess this is the reality we have to face but it is a pretty sad commentary

 

[PEli*]

So what is your explanation for Crosby playing, and dominating, in the QMJHL days before and after the Prospects Game, while missing the prospects game claiming injury and fatigue?

I supported Crosby on this issue, trusting that he was injured. Obviously Crosby wasn't in too much pain.

Excuse? He doesn't need an excuse. There is no rule, unwritten or written that says that a player has to play in an exhibition game. That's the beauty of team sport. You play for your team. That's your only obligation.

Why set out to appease Canadian viewers when your team needs you healthy. And to anybody who believes he lied about being unhealthy, what's your point? What reason would he have to lie? Afraid of flying? Afraid of something else?

I don't buy it. Crosby plays on a team which I hate with a passion. I am absolutely sick of Crosby being the center of attention in my favorite league and I'm sick of his relationship with his team and the way his team manages him. That pretty much makes me as impartial as possible. So my viewpoint on this is...

Big deal. He didn't play in a prospects game. In my mind, he did a few fringe guys a favor and helped his own team out in a huge way. He wasn't dominating before the prospects game. He's scored 26 points in his last 6 games. Why? He's healthy. Or at the very least, close to being healthy.

I understand the disappointment. I'm a fan too. I wanted to see him at the game as much as anybody else. But get the **** over it, people. It isn't a big deal.

 

[The Kingslayer]

It seems like Cherry doesn't like watching kids have fun playing hockey either. I watched his commentary of the infamous "lacross goal" and was caught off gaurd. I would have thought that he would have enjoyed someone playing with creativity but whatever, I guess he won't love you unless you're scarred, toothless and have over 200 PIM in a season.

I enjoyed watchin that goal as much as the next guy, but I agree with Don on that situation. The game was over you dont need to pull a move like that off when your beating a team 6-0 or something like that. When Mike Legg did it the game was tight and that means alot more if your able to pull that off in agame where its tight checking. I would have been upset if I was the team he did it too, but I wouldn't be as upset if he had pulled that move off in OT or something.

 

[target]

To clear up some facts...the game was 4-0 and it was 30 seconds into the 3rd period, hardly game over.

 

[KariyaIsGod*]

I don't see what the big deal is here. He was fatigued, he was suffering from a sore back and preparing to embark on the most grueling schedule out of any team in the CHL.

He doesn't have to be there. That's why the INVITE players and don't ORDER them to go.

Just think, by not playing, he gave some other otherwise unheralded prospect a chance to impress a few scouts.

I hope the next NHL player to skip an all-star game gets at least this much criticism from you guys. I suppose that's wishful thinking though because he won't.

 

[Sammy*]

I don't see what the big deal is here. He was fatigued, he was suffering from a sore back and preparing to embark on the most grueling schedule out of any team in the CHL.

He doesn't have to be there. That's why the INVITE players and don't ORDER them to go.

Just think, by not playing, he gave some other otherwise unheralded prospect a chance to impress a few scouts.

I hope the next NHL player to skip an all-star game gets at least this much criticism from you guys. I suppose that's wishful thinking though because he won't.

Do you think that ones point of view that he should have played is so outrageous as to be without any merit whatsoever. I get your point that it was ok for Crosby (I take a differing view) but I certainly dont think your point of view is ridiculous & I can understand why one would hold it. So my question is, why is the contrary view that he should have played (& I limit my comment to that alone because a few of the comments about Crosby have been somewhat over the top) so outrageous/offensive?

 

[daver]

Do you consider Cherrys arguably meritorious crtisicims (all of 2 to my knowledge) exibiting apparent dislike. I dont.
Imo, I think alot of posters get their back up wher there may be a valid critisimm of Crosby ( I am only aware of 2 facts that may give rise to comment).,who are then attacked in the fashion that you have here. I dunno, maybe fanboys really dont like anything but glowing commentary for their heros. I attribute that to immaturity or a lack of success in their own life so as to try to live through someone who is acheiving something. I guess this is the reality we have to face but it is a pretty sad commentary

The apparent dislike comment was directed towards people in general. I agree there seems to be just as much god-like status put on him also. I hope an inflated ego or thin skin doesn't hamper his potential. It doesn't appear to be so far.

 

[pld459666]

I have a hard time believing

that any scount really puts any stock into this game.

Yes it may show that a kid has skills, but in the concept of what these kids are going to be doing once they advance to the next level, what they do in this game shouldn't be taken into consideration.

It's like a CHL all-star game that really doesn't serve any purpose and if I ran a team and a scout came to me with a glowing report on what one kid did at a prospects game, I'd tell him to attend nuerous regular season games and get me a real report.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Do you think that ones point of view that he should have played is so outrageous as to be without any merit whatsoever.

It is an unsupported and fairly illogical assumption. That's why it doesn't fly with me. All logical evidence points to the contrary. It simply does not look in character. It makes no business sense. It makes absolutely no sense unless he was banged up.

Does that mean it's not a possibility? No. Maybe the kid was just a jerk and didn't want to play. But it seems way too unlikely. Under those circumstances, and unless further evidence is presented, my best bet is to go for the most logical assumption.

The most logical assumption is that he was banged up enough that he could use the day off.

I am extremely critical of QMJHL kids (like all other kids). I'm certainly not one for wishful thinking. I've seen the kid plenty of time, I have friends who are extremely critical and follow the Q. I have read articles, I've seen interviews. And none of this has ever provided me with evidence that this kid could have character issues.

He's not the next Mike Ricci but he is not a scared player. He competes hard for such a finesse talent. From the point of view of his agent, I just can't buy it either. I have explained why. Logic dictates his agent wanted to see him play that game.

I don't have a problem with people who think he could play that game but it would be nice for you guys to say why he could and why he didn't.

I get your point that it was ok for Crosby (I take a differing view) but I certainly dont think your point of view is ridiculous & I can understand why one would hold it. So my question is, why is the contrary view that he should have played (& I limit my comment to that alone because a few of the comments about Crosby have been somewhat over the top) so outrageous/offensive?

I find it more far-fetched than offensive. It is only otrageous in that, as I said only a few weeks ago, it seems like every top prospect has to get at least a couple of buckets of crap as they get older.

It was unfounded accusations for Ovechkin then, now it's Crosby's turn and the wheel will keep on turning.

Someone (on this thread or the other Crosby thread) said that maybe it is justified to be critical because others are too wrapped up in a Crosby worship. I say **** that. I say let's offer informative or at least balanced views.

The people who are overrating this kid big time do not justify people who unfairly criticize him, IMO.

I'm still waiting for any explanation as to why he would miss this game when in shape and able to play. The only justification that appears to make sense on the surface is that he did perform well before and right after he missed that game. That isn't really solid, seeing as the same thing happens to plenty of hockey players after they sit out a game.

It could easily be reversed into evidence that the rest was beneficial. I just honestly don't understand why he would do this.

I'm also kind of disappointed that you suggest that defending Crosby on this matter makes us Crosby fanboys. Or at least that's how I took it reading bits of this thread.

I don't think I am that big of a Crosby fan to tell you the truth. I just can't see why he'd miss the game just for the hell of it.

 

[(lone)Yashinfan#79]

Don Cherry and Brendan Shanahan are two amazing hypocrites. Both will preach till there heads turn read about more offence but lamblast a guy for being creative.

Wasn't it Shanny boy who got upset after Crosby's lacrosse goal saying he would never be dumb enough to try to do that in the NHL. Yet a couple weeks ago when he was doing his sermon on the mound he said the NHL should crack down on obstruction so guys like Crosby can flaunt their skill.

Brendan Shanahan is a sanctimonious jackass, for a myriad of reasons, but this one is merely the latest... another overpaid stat-whore who sees the writing on the wall and can't face the fact that he'll be making less dough and that a young phenom will be skating circles around him in two years... having grown up with an impression of Shanahan as a malcontent who whined for trades out of NJ, St. Louis, Hartford, he's hardly the player of humility who should be launching into any discertations on league improvement.
as for Cherry, you know he's just being the devil's advocate at every turn vis a vis Crosby, because that is his typical contrarian self.

 

[Vincent_TheGreat]

Yeah, god forbid if Cherry has said 2 non-positive things about your hero. All media guys should just worship at the throne of Crosby & never be critical.
By the way, othe than the Top prospects game & his hot dog goal issue, please enlighten the unwashed about all the other terrible criticisims Cherry has dogged Crosby with.

My hero? My hero is Vincent Lecavalier! And Cherry has said bad things about him, but at the time they were legit critiscism! Dogging a 16 year old for a goal like that is stupid and childish! Just keeping proving my point smart guy.

 

[Sammy*]

My hero? My hero is Vincent Lecavalier! And Cherry has said bad things about him, but at the time they were legit critiscism! Dogging a 16 year old for a goal like that is stupid and childish! Just keeping proving my point smart guy.

Whaddya mean dogging him. He's commented about two acts. Hardly dogging him.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Brendan Shanahan is a sanctimonious jackass, for a myriad of reasons, but this one is merely the latest... another overpaid stat-whore who sees the writing on the wall and can't face the fact that he'll be making less dough and that a young phenom will be skating circles around him in two years... having grown up with an impression of Shanahan as a malcontent who whined for trades out of NJ, St. Louis, Hartford, he's hardly the player of humility who should be launching into any discertations on league improvement.
as for Cherry, you know he's just being the devil's advocate at every turn vis a vis Crosby, because that is his typical contrarian self.

Dis-respect for one of the greatest powerforwards of all time. Crosby would be lucky to have a career like Shanahan has said.

All Shanny said was if he saw someone doing that in the NHL he would try to take their head off, he didn't say anything about Crosby.

 

[SwisshockeyAcademy]

Whaddya mean dogging him. He's commented about two acts. Hardly dogging him.

You say it as though Cherry has let a myriad of Crosby's mistakes just slide by. Crosby has hardly been in any controversy of any kind but when there has been some Cherry has been on the scene. He knows how to get his name in the papers.

 

[Sammy*]

It is an unsupported and fairly illogical assumption. That's why it doesn't fly with me. All logical evidence points to the contrary. It simply does not look in character. It makes no business sense. It makes absolutely no sense unless he was banged up.

Does that mean it's not a possibility? No. Maybe the kid was just a jerk and didn't want to play. But it seems way too unlikely. Under those circumstances, and unless further evidence is presented, my best bet is to go for the most logical assumption.

The most logical assumption is that he was banged up enough that he could use the day off.

I am extremely critical of QMJHL kids (like all other kids). I'm certainly not one for wishful thinking. I've seen the kid plenty of time, I have friends who are extremely critical and follow the Q. I have read articles, I've seen interviews. And none of this has ever provided me with evidence that this kid could have character issues.

He's not the next Mike Ricci but he is not a scared player. He competes hard for such a finesse talent. From the point of view of his agent, I just can't buy it either. I have explained why. Logic dictates his agent wanted to see him play that game.

I don't have a problem with people who think he could play that game but it would be nice for you guys to say why he could and why he didn't.



I find it more far-fetched than offensive. It is only otrageous in that, as I said only a few weeks ago, it seems like every top prospect has to get at least a couple of buckets of crap as they get older.

It was unfounded accusations for Ovechkin then, now it's Crosby's turn and the wheel will keep on turning.

Someone (on this thread or the other Crosby thread) said that maybe it is justified to be critical because others are too wrapped up in a Crosby worship. I say **** that. I say let's offer informative or at least balanced views.

The people who are overrating this kid big time do not justify people who unfairly criticize him, IMO.

I'm still waiting for any explanation as to why he would miss this game when in shape and able to play. The only justification that appears to make sense on the surface is that he did perform well before and right after he missed that game. That isn't really solid, seeing as the same thing happens to plenty of hockey players after they sit out a game.

It could easily be reversed into evidence that the rest was beneficial. I just honestly don't understand why he would do this.

I'm also kind of disappointed that you suggest that defending Crosby on this matter makes us Crosby fanboys. Or at least that's how I took it reading bits of this thread.

I don't think I am that big of a Crosby fan to tell you the truth. I just can't see why he'd miss the game just for the hell of it.

Vlad,
I have said it before. I dont think this is a big deal, but I also dont think what he did is beyond criticism (speculative on the facts though it is).
I also take a contrary view that I dont think it is far fetched at all that he didnt play because that while he may have had a few nicks , the driving force behind it was his handlers just saw only bad things (nothing real bad, just maybe not playing well & the yammereing that results) that could come out of playing. In short, only a downside to playing.
All in all I dont think its a big deal at all, bbut I also dont think any balanced criticism is its beyond fair commentary

 

[Sammy*]

You say it as though Cherry has let a myriad of Crosby's mistakes just slide by. Crosby has hardly been in any controversy of any kind but when there has been some Cherry has been on the scene. He knows how to get his name in the papers.

2 frickin cases he has commented on. I am sure Crosby has done some other things that one could comment on (maybe not, perhaps hes near perfect), Cherry has commented on all of 2 of them & in a quite circumspect & respectful way.
I've said it before, I'll say it again , there is enough things you guys can whine about Cherry on without creating a "Cherry" issue where there isnt one. I frankly see this as Cherry haters (fair enough but they hit the wrong spot here) &/or Crosby lovers, who think he is beyond criticism.

 

[SwisshockeyAcademy]

2 frickin cases he has commented on. I am sure Crosby has done some other things that one could comment on (maybe not, perhaps hes near perfect), Cherry has commented on all of 2 of them & in a quite circumspect & respectful way.
I've said it before, I'll say it again , there is enough things you guys can whine about Cherry on without creating a "Cherry" issue where there isnt one. I frankly see this as Cherry haters (fair enough but they hit the wrong spot here) &/or Crosby lovers, who think he is beyond criticism.

I am not saying he is beyond criticism, nobody is. I'm sure Don is not done with Crosby. Hopefully when Crosby is in his prime Don will be safely away from primetime and all the kids in the Q can rest easy knowing they will not have to hear anymore bigoted, selfserving comments from a man that i will acknowledge has done more good than bad, but that cannot help himself in some cases . He just cannot leave some players alone.