Does the NHL owe big market teams anything?

[Hoss]

Hmmmm, have they not had this advantage all along
They have always been unable to outspend the small market teams, so I don't see why things will change? They have always had money, so what is going to be the difference? They have more money now? I can see this as being a potential problem, but no different than it has been in the past.

Yes, and now they will have the potential for a greater advantage. When I shop for new employers I consider things like equipment on site, tech support availibility, is the employer understaffed etc. along with salary, locale and cost of living stuff. In a capped NHL, the non-financial qualities of the job may be a determing factor.

 

[ScottyBowman]

Try these hard facts.

BIG market team

2003-2004: Revenues = $100M, Salary structure = $65M, Profits = $15 million
2005-2006: Revenues = $100M, Salary structure = $36M, Profits = ???

Now I know this is a really hard question for most to wrap their heads around, but try doing the math. What are profits likely to be? Even if revenues drop 20% down to $80M, do the math. Profits are GUARANTEED to be UP. This isn't rocket science, even for an NHLPA member.

Don't kid yourself. Revenue will drop alot more than 20% with some of these teams that have sky high ticket prices. Do you think people in Detroit are going to pay $70 to see Mark Mowers and some other scrubs? Doubtful. Same goes with Philly, and NY.The only team that will benefit is Toronto where they have blind fans.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

smaller teams are getting better draft picks and now even money.. IS THAT RIGHT/FAIR????

And do you think there would be NHL without all those big markets??

 

[WC Handy*]

I hope the big market teams continue to dominate to show how pointless this cap will be and how we lost 1 year for nothing.

The Wings could beat the Devils in the Cup next year and it wouldn't change the fact that they did so with everyone on an even financial playing field. Nor would it change the fact only a team or two would lose money instead of 2/3rds of the league.

 

[Bobs your uncle]

With the salary cap in place, it's clear it was put in place for the smaller market teams, what do you think the NHL owes the large market teams that lost out on an entire season and a shot at the Stanley Cup?

Teams like Detroit, Colorado, Philly, Toronto.

What does the NHL owe them since the teams like Pittsburgh, Nashville, Edmonton, etc... got their demand in a hard cap, and a low one at that?

What do we owe them?
You must be kidding!
Typical Toronto thought process.
The so-called "big" teams are owed a kick in the ass for driving up salaries over the last ten years necessitating the loss of a whole season to correct this idiotic thinking. Thanks for nothing!

 

[Jaded-Fan]

smaller teams are getting better draft picks and now even money.. IS THAT RIGHT/FAIR????

And do you think there would be NHL without all those big markets??

Do you think that there would be an NHL with ONLY big markets? Drop down to four or five teams and play each other 15 or 20 times a year and see how many are interested even in your own markets.

 

[EroCaps]

...people are forgetting that the success of the league depends upon the success of the small markets. You don't grow your fan base by contracting teams. This CBA is aimed at helping the LEAGUE which began to flounder. The NHL big market teams enjoyed the spoils over any other big markets in sports, save for the Yankees and Red Sox.

 

[Goodwith Sticks]

I hope the big market teams continue to dominate to show how pointless this cap will be and how we lost 1 year for nothing.

You and I both - and I feel quite strongly that exactly that will transpire when NHL hockey resumes

 

[Goodwith Sticks]

And scouts! THese rich teams just got twice as rich and since they can't buy players they will exploit the system another way. I think many of these small market fans who hope for doom and gloom for the Leafs, Avs, and Wings will be surprised.
Hrmm the Oilers offered me 3 mil and the Wings offer 3 mil but the wings go all out to keep their players comfortable. Who would I sign with?

Players know that the reason for this owner stacked CBA is due to the fact that the small market teams wanted it and they won't forget it. I'm sure certain teams are now on most players **** list.

No the NHL does'nt owe the large teams anything. They just gave them a holy grail of business.

best and most legit post in the thread so far hands down
as regards the boldface text .. that is very, very likely indeed.

 

[gerbilanium]

best and most legit post in the thread so far hands down
as regards the boldface text .. that is very, very likely indeed.

You are correct, it is very likely the leafs will be even better this year. Now they will be forced to unload there geriatric hasbeen unit. Nowhere to go but up for an underachieving crew such as them.

 

[se7en*]

Good god, this forum has hit rock-bottom.

The so-called "big markets" deserve nothing. You all whine that a season was lost because of the "small-markets" without even a hint of irony, ignoring that your reckless spending is a big reason why a whole season was ruined for everyone else. Thanks!

However, the fact that Leafs/Avalanche fans et al already have a problem with the upcoming CBA is very telling. It makes me smile!

 

[bcrt2000]

Try these hard facts.

BIG market team

2003-2004: Revenues = $100M, Salary structure = $65M, Profits = $15 million
2005-2006: Revenues = $100M, Salary structure = $36M, Profits = ???

Now I know this is a really hard question for most to wrap their heads around, but try doing the math. What are profits likely to be? Even if revenues drop 20% down to $80M, do the math. Profits are GUARANTEED to be UP. This isn't rocket science, even for an NHLPA member.

however, i think its fair to say that a team making that much will probably have to give up 10-20M in revenue sharing if its as significant as we've been told it is

 

[Vomiting Kermit*]

You are correct, it is very likely the leafs will be even better this year. Now they will be forced to unload there geriatric hasbeen unit. Nowhere to go but up for an underachieving crew such as them.

 

[Icey]

It's quite amusing to see people mention Boston (5th largest media market, 7th largest metro population) and Anaheim (2nd in both, also was owned by Disney) as not being big markets.

Don't kid yourself. Both are big market teams, even if their owners don't (didn't) act like it.

They are not big markets in regards to revenue. When was the last time Anaheim made a profit????????


Never.

 

[Icey]

however, i think its fair to say that a team making that much will probably have to give up 10-20M in revenue sharing if its as significant as we've been told it is

Oh, but the revenue sharing will mostly come from playoff revenue so when the big market teams suck because they had to buy out half their teams, they won't make the playoffs, so little revenue sharing for them. Instead the teams that make the playoffs (such as Calgary,Tampa Bay, San Jose, Nashville) will be the ones doing the revenue sharing.

Fact is NO ONE knows what is in the CBA. People are living off rumors and most often the rumors are incorrect. Perhaps everyone should wait until the CBA is signed to determine who owes who what and who is going to suck.

 

[ej_pens]

They are not big markets in regards to revenue. When was the last time Anaheim made a profit????????

The Bruins certainly are. They were 7th in revenues in 2003.

As for the Ducks, they reside in the 2nd biggest market in the US being owned, until recently, by a very large company. The fact that they don't bring in nearly as much revenue as the Kings is their own damn fault. They have all of the tools to be a large revenue club (and still do).

 

[Kritter471]

However, the fact that Leafs/Avalanche fans et al already have a problem with the upcoming CBA is very telling. It makes me smile!

Ah, so it's all about revenge then? How nice.

Don't fault the big market teams because they had the resources to succeed in the old system. It's not their fault that Carolina or Washington or Calgary or whoever didn't have the fortune of a very wealthy owner who was willing to invest money in the team.

Should it be fixed? Enough people in very good economic standing say yes, so who'm I to argue that. But to say "Hah! Finally, I, fan of X small-market/low-revenue/low-spending team, will finally get to avenge those dumb big-market franchises and all their stupid winning ways" is so not what this should be about. This lockout should be for a healthy league that benefits all 30 teams, not just the 8 big-spenders or the 8 hard-liners or the 14 mid-level teams.

 

[Boilers*]

Fans really shouldn't be arguing with other fans over this particular issue.

I skimmed through all of the posts to see if anyone came up with the obvious, and haven't found it yet. This shouldn't be rich teams against poor anymore. The Leafs fans should enjoy a huge decrease in ticket prices as well as every other well run team in the league. If you are a fan of a team who's fans don't show up on a regular basis ticket prices will go up. That my friends is the reward/punishment that should await faithful/non-faithful fans.

Being able to afford to take your family to a game to pass on the love of the game should be on the minds of the owners. As such Leafs/Avs fans will undoubtedly flourish like never before. Poorly run organizations might just fold.

This really is the time for the fans to turn to the owners and say " OK I've watched you and the NHLPA fight this thing out and wiped out a season, what do I as a fan get?"

The answer should be obvious.

 

[ryz]

best and most legit post in the thread so far hands down
as regards the boldface text .. that is very, very likely indeed.

post #59


I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you but you make the same statements in 2 back to back posts. What leads you to believe this? Other than the fact that I assume you are a Leaf fan? (which, of course, could have nothing to do with it).

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Fans really shouldn't be arguing with other fans over this particular issue.

I skimmed through all of the posts to see if anyone came up with the obvious, and haven't found it yet. This shouldn't be rich teams against poor anymore. The Leafs fans should enjoy a huge decrease in ticket prices as well as every other well run team in the league. If you are a fan of a team who's fans don't show up on a regular basis ticket prices will go up. That my friends is the reward/punishment that should await faithful/non-faithful fans.

Being able to afford to take your family to a game to pass on the love of the game should be on the minds of the owners. As such Leafs/Avs fans will undoubtedly flourish like never before. Poorly run organizations might just fold.

This really is the time for the fans to turn to the owners and say " OK I've watched you and the NHLPA fight this thing out and wiped out a season, what do I as a fan get?"

The answer should be obvious.

I am not sure that is always possible. Costs of everything is higher in certain markets, and in those you almost always pay more for the same thing. A million dollar home here in Pittsburgh for instance would be a 6,000 sq. foot five bedroom mansion that would knock your socks off. In NY or SF that might get you a 1,000 foot one bedroom loft. A bagle and cream cheese that costs me $1.75 here costs $6 there. A movie that I pay $7.25 to see costs $15 plus in NY. Yes, prices should reduce, even in those markets, but they wll not reduce to the same anywhere. Just is the facts in those markets.

 

[Kritter471]

The Leafs fans should enjoy a huge decrease in ticket prices as well as every other well run team in the league. If you are a fan of a team who's fans don't show up on a regular basis ticket prices will go up. That my friends is the reward/punishment that should await faithful/non-faithful fans.

Being able to afford to take your family to a game to pass on the love of the game should be on the minds of the owners. As such Leafs/Avs fans will undoubtedly flourish like never before. Poorly run organizations might just fold.

Two things.

One, the ticket situation works in exactly opposite way. Teams that don't draw well lower their prices to try and attract people to the building, with the theory of you can't sell 100 $15 tickets but you can sell 300 $10 tickets. Teams with greater demand for the tickets (the Leafs would definitely fit this scenario) can charge higher prices because people will pay them.

Two, what do I, a Stars fan, care if Tom Hicks pockets $40 million extra dollars if there's nothing that assures me he'll put it back into the team. Why should I buy a $90 jersey or $25 ticket if I think the money is lining his wallet rather than buying the team a third-line winger?

 

[Icey]

The Bruins certainly are. They were 7th in revenues in 2003.

As for the Ducks, they reside in the 2nd biggest market in the US being owned, until recently, by a very large company. The fact that they don't bring in nearly as much revenue as the Kings is their own damn fault. They have all of the tools to be a large revenue club (and still do).

You do know the Kings don't make a profit right? 7th in revenue does not make them a big market team.

You might want do a little homework and learn a little about the business.

 

[bcrt2000]

Oh, but the revenue sharing will mostly come from playoff revenue so when the big market teams suck because they had to buy out half their teams, they won't make the playoffs, so little revenue sharing for them. Instead the teams that make the playoffs (such as Calgary,Tampa Bay, San Jose, Nashville) will be the ones doing the revenue sharing.

Fact is NO ONE knows what is in the CBA. People are living off rumors and most often the rumors are incorrect. Perhaps everyone should wait until the CBA is signed to determine who owes who what and who is going to suck.

well we don't quite know what the revenue sharing formula is and its pure speculation at this point but... the NHL's proposal from Feb. is the one with Limited Revenue Sharing in the playoffs... but from what we've read from many columnists since then, they say that the NHL has agreed to increase the revenue sharing to significant amounts... again, like you said though, its only speculation at this point

 

[kdb209]

Originally Posted by ej_pens
It's quite amusing to see people mention Boston (5th largest media market, 7th largest metro population) and Anaheim (2nd in both, also was owned by Disney) as not being big markets.

Don't kid yourself. Both are big market teams, even if their owners don't (didn't) act like it.

The myth continues that Boston is cheap. In fact, they are alnost always in the top 1/3 or 1/4 of the league in payroll. It's intersting that most of their so-called cheap moves haveturned out to be great hockey decisions: dumping Khristch's big arbitration award (what a stiff), dumping Defore (no one else would touch at even half his asking price) and trading Allision (who hardly played after the trade). They've all turned out great for Boston.

Boston in the top 1/3 or 1/4 of the league????

Since the last CBA started, the payroll rank of the Bruins has been: #22 (1995), #12, #12, #20, #22, #21, #18, #11, #18, and #12 (2003-04). Never in the top third, only 4 times out of 9 even in the top half.

Sorry, you Sinden apologist, Boston is cheap.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

The NBA is a different animal, but the Patriots and the NFL are the perfect example of what the NHL can become. New England created a dynasty with superior coaching and management- end of story. The last several years have seen big NFL markets show considerable restraint in FA signings. The draft has become vital and the quality of the game has grown by leaps and bounds. The NFL dominates in the US and it couldn't do so w/out it's hard cap system.

MLB, on the other hand has slipped to a distant #2 thanks to the Yankees and Red Sox.

It's really now or never for hockey in the US. It's losing money to Golf and Nascar, which is just sad.

BS! To compare the NHL to the NFL is a laugh. All the teams in the NFL can afford the ceiling, about 50% of the teams in the NHL can afford the ceiling. Plus 85% of NFL markets have sellouts most of the time. Maybe 10% of NHL teams can count on that