Does bringing Hamhuis back 1-2 years make sense?

[Dynamite Time]

I know Heiskinen is good but also young. Do we want to throw him straight into the NHL next year? Lindell-Klingberg Methot-Johns Hamhuis-Honka. I think the way Gologoski helped Klingberg is something Hamhuis could do with Honka. The pressure to push Heiskinen straight into the game won’t have to be, unless of course he takes it and runs away with it.

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[Kcb12345]

This is a really good question, and although I would love to see Hamhuis back I think it's more likely we see Pateryn back as #7D, and if Heiskanen struggles or Honka does then he would slide in. My expected D-pairs (barring any trades):

Lindell-Klingberg
Methot-Honka
Heiskanen-Johns
Pateryn/Heatherington

I'm hoping Methot can be our "Hamhuis" for next season, but you never know. Hamhuis has been great this year though so who knows what Nill wants to do. I think Hamhuis is likely gonna want a raise next year (or the same contract) and is likely gonna have to find it somewhere else.

 

[Dynamite Time]

Yeah after I put in my post I was also thinking a healthy Methot could be a great partner for Honka; of course you know who he was with in Ottowa. You’re right as well on Hamhuis wanting a raise. We need that extra cap for other contracts.

 

[jballa95]

Im betting that Heiskanen is in the NHL next year. They could try and put him in the AHL to get used to the rink size but I think he'll play his way out of there very quickly (much like Klingberg did). I think Hitchcock will like him too much to send him down. I don't think it will take him long to get top 4 minutes as well. Heiskanen and Lindell are going to be a nice 1-2 punch down the left d-side for years to come. Then you place Klingberg and one of Johns/Honka or another on the right, and our top 4 is looking relatively established for the long term.

 

[serp]

Someone is gonna offer Hamhuis money we shouldn't pay him and with Heiskanen coming over and Method will around i don't think it makes sense to keep Hamhuis .

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

It might depend on how the year ends. If they have a nice playoff run, Hammer may want to come back on a team friendly deal, sort of like Lehtonen. If we miss the PO (thought impossible a few weeks ago, but a struggling team right now might drop in the standings) or lose in first round, the thought would be "it isn't working" and Stars will not offer a contract.

I thought (and think they think) Heatherington is also ready for the NHL for RHD, which doesn't help the pairings like Miro making it on the left side. If we bring back Hammer, it can only be for a year on a reasonable contract, or we may be back to our dreaded 8 D problem.

 

[WhatWhat]

Heiskanen might need a bit to get used to the ice size but the Kid is already playing 25 a night in a mens league and killing it. I will be shocked if he isnt a solid contributor for us next year early on

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Just seems like Nil prefers to bring them over for a 0.5-1.5 year stint in the AHL. Read he won't come over for T Stars playoffs this year, so I suspect a full AHL year next year, with a few call ups, and then full time in 19-20, maybe even next year last half, if impressive enough or injuries to the NHL side happen.

 

[BigG44]

This conversation is just about Heiskanen though. Like FirstRow mentioned, Heatherington is NHL ready. Hamhuis was a luxury this year in that he stepped up big when Methot went down. Next season, the money just doesn't make sense IMO to sign Hamhuis as a guy to replace Methot in the Top 4 when he's injured. You have 2 young guys that could step in to that 3rd pair role. Just let them battle it out, but my guess would be based on Hitch's choices this season that Heatherington is your likely 3rd LD behind Lindell and Methot to start the season. Heiskanen goes to the AHL. It's disappointing that Bayreuther's developed has been a little slower. I didn't expect to him to set the AHL on fire, but it sees he's struggling still with the all around game. I'd feel more comfortable because of Methot's age and injury history, if Dallas had a third defender on a two-way contract who could potentially step in to a slot on the 3rd pair if Heatherington or Heiskanen were forced up the lineup because of several injuries. Nyberg and Vala will likely both be in the AHL or ECHL next season, but I doubt either is going to be an option in the NHL realistically in 18-19. I'd expect Dallas to sign another depth D or even re-sign Bodnarchuk.

Also, I'd be fine if Pateryn was signed to actually be Dallas' 7th D, but that's probably not going to happen. The best case scenario is someone desperate for a right shot D overpays him in free agency and Dallas walks away. If Pateryn is back on this roster, I don't have much confidence that he'll be sitting on the bench. That will likely be Honka, again. Hitch seems to like the R/L balance so there would be a chance Honka might have the opportunity to play over Heatherington and Heiskanen though.

My first choice at least consider what we know today:

Lindell-Klingberg
Methot-Johns
Heatherington-Honka

Heatherington and Honka were a pair for a year in junior, and they've been a pair in the AHL. It's a perfect situation where you have a guy in Heatherington who can support Honka's adventures up ice. In this scenario, I'd be happy to see a veteran, 7th defender added.

 

[BigG44]

Just seems like Nil prefers to bring them over for a 0.5-1.5 year stint in the AHL. Read he won't come over for T Stars playoffs this year, so I suspect a full AHL year next year, with a few call ups, and then full time in 19-20, maybe even next year last half, if impressive enough or injuries to the NHL side happen.

He's still eligible for the slide. I'd say if he's not a full time NHLer by mid season, you probably won't see him play more than 9 games.

 

[serp]

I sincerely doubt Heatherington makes the team over Heiskanen next year. Heatherington is a depth defenseman . I would be shocked if Heiskanen doesn't outright make the team out of training camp next year. I'm almost certain he would've massively complicated the glut on defense even more if he didn't get injured prior to training camp. Miro is a top 3 pick and there's a very good chance he's the best player out of the 2017 draft.

Heiskanen is a special talent who at 18 years is doing incredible things against men. He's probably NHL ready right now . I like Heatherington but you can't compare those two.

 

[BigG44]

No one is comparing the two. That's a massive leap from what's been said. I would not be surprised to see Heiskanen in the NHL next season, but to say it's a forgone conclusion ignores the reality of the situation. Nill is traditionally slow to promote, and saying that Heiskanen is a lock for the NHL ignores a well established history of keeping inferior D on the roster rather than waive or trade them. Heatherington requires waivers next year. He's very likely either going to be a 6/7 D in Dallas at minimum. If Dallas re-signs Pateryn, which again wouldn't be surprising at all even though I'd rather not see it happen, and they don't trade Honka, there's little to not chance Heiskanen is on the roster to start the year unless they carry 8 D ... yet again ... and watch Honka continue to deteriorate as an asset.

No one said Heatherington was better today or had better upside than Heiskanen. The question was does signing Hamhuis make sense, and part of that discussion must acknowledge who will likely be roster options for Dallas. If you were laying odds based on recent history, it's a better bet to assume Heiskanen doesn't start in the NHL even though I believe most people, myself included, would say why not give the guy who has the positive attributes you listed a chance to get his legs under him at the NHL where he may already be ready for that level of competition.

If the conversation was just what do fans want to see happen, Heiskanen likely wins that spot hands down. If the conversation is what's Dallas' D likely going to look like based on an educated guess, contracts and waivers play far too important of a role in Nill's decisions to say with certainty that Miro's an NHLer in October. Dallas has proven time and again merit doesn't trump contract and waivers. Heiskanen may be an exception, and that would be nice to see.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

Hamhuis on a short term deal?

Yes please

 

[serp]

I think the situation with Heiskanen is quite different to pretty much any prospect we had in ages. He's an absolute blue chip prospect . Those even for conservative coaches/gm's usually play right away . I personally would not re-sign Hamhuis and Pateryn ( think they'll get overpaid ) and go with

Lindell-Klingberg
Methot-Honka
Heiskanen-Johns
Heatherington

and be done with it.

 

[BigG44]

My hope with Pateryn is that Johns plays his way intany a nice raise, which he seems to be doing, and Nill doesn't see the value in paying a 27 year old having a career year, and very likely a fluke, too much money.

Johns is a tough player to figure out though. He'll be 26 this summer with only 1 season before UFA. Anything beyond 1 year is going to pay closer to UFA rates. I look a guy like Brendan Smith (ignoring this fall from grace this season and only focusing on years prior to current contract), and I think a reasonable argument can be made to suggest Johns is a more offensive and more physical player than Smith, and they both play similar minutes. That means around $4+ for UFA years isn't that unreasonable for Johns). Then add in he's a right shot. He's also arbitration eligible this year.

The one thing in Dallas' favor is I don't think Johns would risk going to arbitration. IIRC, his choosing arbitration gives Dallas the chance to ask for the award to be a 2 year deal. That would potentially be a major mistake because I would say the awards have been much more conservative and in the teams favor lately. I don't know that he or his representation would want to make that gamble.

I think/hope is that Johns gets some term ... a cap hit likely in the $3 to $4 range, and that should give Nill pause to pull the deal on what would likely be a bad contract when Pateryn eventually (hopefully) gets outplayed by younger competition. I can't think of any decent comparables, but being a right shot and filling a Top 4 role on a likely playoff team, I have to think someone overpays and pushes up his price to $2 to $3 if not north of $3. I just can't believe that a team won't eventually regret that though. I don't think anyone should give him much more than Jordie got.

 

[HatchtrickBateman]

I wouldn't mind seeing him back on a short term. Also am I missing something on Pateryn? He's been pretty damn good for us. I feel like he's past the point of a fluke, not like he's a fwd getting some awesome puck luck with goals. I'm sure someone will pay him more and he may very well walk, but I've been more than happy with him in the lineup this season. I understand he doesn't have a wow factor, but he's been a pretty solid dman

 

[serp]

If you look at Pateryn without Hamhuis is numbers are not nearly as good. There's a decent chance that Hamhuis in a contract year elevates Pateryn to a level that he won't be able to repeat without him.

 

[BigG44]

If you look at Pateryn without Hamhuis is numbers are not nearly as good. There's a decent chance that Hamhuis in a contract year elevates Pateryn to a level that he won't be able to repeat without him.

Exactly the key question here. Is Pateryn finally putting it together at the age of 27 or is he benefiting from A) a steady partner and B) a system that overall seems to be favorable for defenders in their own zone. I don't think Dallas' defenders magically improved because Ruff left. Hitch put in a system that is more conducive for solid defense.

It's genuinely not an attack on Pateryn. I'm happy he's playing well. D to tend to develop slower, but I don't think you pay a guy because of a single good season after years of mediocrity. That last two summers have been more conservative in terms of UFA's overall. Although, 2017 was moving back in the direction of UFA seasons of past. Plus, 31 teams now spreads talent even a little more thin. It's not unreasonable to assume someone could overpay him, and I just keep having flashbacks to Mark Fayne. I don't want Dallas to be the team that gambles on a late blooming defender and gets stuck with a guy making almost $4 million.

Finally, the question is do you want to give your coach a guy next year who there's little doubt will push Honka out of the conversation for regular duty? You've already allowed multiple young defenders to eat scratches and not really give them a fair shake to get into a rhythm. It's clear that Oleksiak and Nemeth aren't top pairing D, but given the opportunity to play consistent minutes, they've shown they are serviceable every day D. I genuinely don't care that it's not with Dallas, but I think it's a pretty reasonable argument to make that rather than twiddling your thumbs and allowing them both to struggle in Dallas, you could have made a decision sooner, moved on from one, and when it came time to send the other away, young 3rd pairing D don't restock the cupboard, but they bring back usable assets. The fact that Dallas got a 4th round pick out of BOTH Nemeth and Oleksiak is not a feather in Nill's cap. That poor asset management should have been an educational moment for Nill. He has Honka potentially going down the same path. Signing Pateryn keeps him on that track. I'd be disappointed, but re-signing Pateryn means you ought to move on from Honka via trade rather than watch him sit and become another wasted asset.

It's just difficult for me to not consider Honka when looking at Pateryn. Pateryn is at his ceiling. He's proven he might be serviceable. Honka clearly has more potential, but he's also not established himself as a guy that can be an every day player. Losing Pateryn doesn't hurt your team so much that it's worth not investigating if Honka can be the player you thought he was. That's my main concern.

 

[Benneguin]

Except that the defense did improve the moment Ruff left. It’s not magic. As you said, the reason is Hitch’s system. unless that’s going away soon I don’t see why you wouldn’t continue to expect similar results from Pateryn going forward. What he’s doing isn’t rocket science nor does it require elite skill. He’s just a solid depth guy, if someone wants to pay him like someone he’s not then sure look elsewhere otherwise let’s pay him what he’s worth and not replace him with another inexperienced or over the hill D man that saves a few dollars.

This is the thing I hate about our revolving door / rinse repeat approach to icing a team each year. We never build up chemistry. It’s always a bunch of new guys trying to figure each other out each year and so we spend half the season figuring out who plays well with whom. We are finally starting to gel on the blue line, let’s keep building on that. Granted Pateryn is not an important piece but when you talk about letting him go and then Ham, etc., you start to eat away at that. Benn, Bishop, Rads, those guys aren’t getting any younger, and who knows what happens to Seguin. At some point you have to say now is the time we go for it.

 

[Hull Fan]

Pateryn is an absolute disaster transitioning out of the defensive zone when under any kind of pressure. There's a reason Dallas leads the league in icings. He cannot come back because Hitch will continue to play him instead of Honka. Hamhuis is a decent vet but again not that great in clearing the zone with our team in possession of the puck still. The sooner Dallas has Honka and Heiskanen in the lineup nightly the better possession team they'll be. On a hard scoring team handicapping the offensive zone breakout makes no sense.

Thanks Hamhuis, you were better than I thought you'd be but I wish you well.

 

[northstars]

I doubt Hamhuis is retained. If Heiskanen doesn't make it to start the season Heatherington will be a viable option on the left side.

 

[Duffeldof]

Situation with Stars defence future is interesting.

I think Hamhuis will be back. Considering that Nill likes veteran experience, he likes to be prepared to injuries etc. and he doesn't count on youngster until they have proven their level. Also Hamhuis is family man (three daughters, right?) his probably willing to sign extension rather than moving.

Hamhuis will sign 1-year 2mil extension with modified NTC.

Nill is probably sketching out next season like this:

Lindell - Klingberg
Methot - Johns
Hamhuis - Honka
Heiskanen/Heatherington

Pateryn will snatch payraise from UFA market, 3year 1-1.5mil

 

[serp]

Heiskanen is not brought over to be #7 . No way in hell.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Hitch said Hamuis and Patyrn have to be sheltered against physical lines, favoring Johns and Methot for tougher assignments now. That doesn't bode well for Dan H.

 

[jballa95]

Miro Heiskanen is in the top 6 next year. Texas can also be used for Miro to get used to the NA rink but I doubt he would be there for long. But no way Heiskanen is 7th D, he's not going to be in the same situation Honka is.