Does anyone know if this is for the ECHL?

LadyStanley

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Sep 22, 2004
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We are a group of private investors interested in bringing professional hockey to Billings, Montana and growing the sport of hockey locally. Historically there has been very strong support for hockey in Billings, but given recent events, there is concern about the long-term viability of the sport in town.

Unknown. But probably.

Can't see that the AHL (which already has its 31st location determined, just not announced) is meant. And unlikely something like SPHL (geographically separated). And as it's pro, that excludes USHL.
 

JMCx4

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Seems a rather desperate reaction to losing the NA3HL Bulls to dormancy earlier this month. If their goal is to court the ECHL as an expansion option, Billings' remoteness would be a hindrance to the investors' chances. Rapid City is over 5 hours away by bus, and Boise is a 9+ hour drive. After those two, a Billings team & its competitors would have to start relying on more expensive air travel options. The Bulls had operated for 24 years. Would a pro franchise with its significantly higher initial investment & operating costs be a more hopeful future for Billings' hockey than trying to get another lower level junior team?
 

210

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The population of the "metro" area for Billings is less than the actual population in Worcester...that's not enough people to sustain an outpost franchise. Heck, the Anchorage Aces had about 4x the number of people to draw from and they eventually couldn't make it work.
 

LadyStanley

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The population of the "metro" area for Billings is less than the actual population in Worcester...that's not enough people to sustain an outpost franchise. Heck, the Anchorage Aces had about 4x the number of people to draw from and they eventually couldn't make it work.

I think that had more to do with local economic issues than anything. The state "bonus" payment that most residents get (essentially a dividend from oil production) got cut to almost nothing with the reduction in crude price. Folks had to re-prioritize their spending, discretionary and otherwise. I think the support is still there.

And of course the added payments for travel the team had to make.
 

PCSPounder

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Apr 12, 2012
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My speculation binge some months back added a necessary monkey wrench to any consideration of Billings...

...HOWEVER...

...if Colorado-to-AHL is all but signed off, the ECHL might not be in a position to ignore beggars. The E may very well be a beggar.

Someone like Boise, who's been looking around of late, probably has calculated that flying to Billings is now very likely better than, say, flying to Louisiana. There could be pressure to let these guys in.
 

210

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The ECHL aren't beggars, and they aren't going to allow an ownership group that can't show how they will make it work financially in the long term. The old business model in the ECHL was "he's got a check, give him a team". That's not happening anymore. The new business model of the ECHL is based on long term financial stability for franchises, so unless an ownership group can show it has a plan for success and deep pockets to start up the ECHL won't even talk to them.

Comcast Spectacor had to fill out all the same paperwork to buy the Aces that Cliff Rucker had to fill out to get an expansion team, and there's no doubt Comcast Spectacor was going to have a business plan that kept them close to even. But the ECHL wanted to know what it was before allowing them to buy the Aces.

No matter how many people sign that petition unless an ownership group in Billings can show the ECHL how it's going to work there the league won't give them much thought.
 

PCSPounder

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The ECHL aren't beggars, and they aren't going to allow an ownership group that can't show how they will make it work financially in the long term. The old business model in the ECHL was "he's got a check, give him a team". That's not happening anymore. The new business model of the ECHL is based on long term financial stability for franchises, so unless an ownership group can show it has a plan for success and deep pockets to start up the ECHL won't even talk to them.

Comcast Spectacor had to fill out all the same paperwork to buy the Aces that Cliff Rucker had to fill out to get an expansion team, and there's no doubt Comcast Spectacor was going to have a business plan that kept them close to even. But the ECHL wanted to know what it was before allowing them to buy the Aces.

No matter how many people sign that petition unless an ownership group in Billings can show the ECHL how it's going to work there the league won't give them much thought.

And, hey, I'm not about to fall on a sword about Billings. Read what I said initially in that thread. However, don't be so enraptured with your market being in the ECHL as meaning the league's standards have upped. The league chases the money and always will.

In the meantime, the rumors I'm starting to see involve the WHL. That doesn't mean THAT will happen, but those are rumors that got loud fast FWIW.
It wouldn't be the first time for Billings BTW.
 

ek93

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Dec 28, 2014
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Seems like Alaska Aces 2.0 in terms of travel, just in a smaller area. Not sure how they expect that to work. Best of luck, though.
 

PCSPounder

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Seems like Alaska Aces 2.0 in terms of travel, just in a smaller area. Not sure how they expect that to work. Best of luck, though.

Rapid City already confounds your average team travel agent.

At least, with Billings, Alaska Air (using their Horizon subsidiary) gets there less expensively than what you get going to Rapid City. Billings is also a 17% larger market... so it's growing faster than I thought it was. It's also Montana's primary city; Rapid City not so much for South Dakota. That MIGHT make Billings a reasonable bet... question being whether Rapid City is doing well enough and the comparison is moot or not.

(NOTE: I'm going to Rapid City next month. I would have, in one scenario, flown into Billings and taken the bus for a 6-hour ride because of the expense. It's literally cheaper for me to return from Rapid City to Portland via Las Vegas and stay a night on the strip than a more direct flight... and Vegas is what I'm going to do. BTW, I'm flying to Rapid City from Winnipeg, which is another story.)

That reminds me... if the courts in Canada come back and rule in favor of players in the Major Junior case, and the CHL subsequently implements some form of pay, the ECHL should be trying extremely fast to swoop into Spokane and at least two of Everett, Kennewick, Kent, and Portland. I have a suspicion that CHL would retrench and reorganize, and they might jettison American-based teams in the process. Since Alaska Air is based in Seattle, that makes connections to places like Boise and Billings easier. Example in another sport: Las Vegas AAA baseball attendance is much more atrocious than advertised. HOWEVER, with so many airlines flying through Vegas (and especially Southwest), they were never a threat to leave. A team in Vegas keeps costs down. Bummer about the Wranglers, I guess.
 
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JMCx4

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I was once thinking about putting an ice rink in my basement to attract an ECHL franchise, but my operating net revenue was predicted to fall well short of my capital improvement costs. Plus there's that whole minimum seating capacity thing, which is another aspect where Billings appears to have a leg up on me. :thumbd:
 

Royalsflagrunner77

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Jul 26, 2013
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Does the ice plant in that building even still operate lol . The local arena seems big enough but like you guys said travel would be a killer. which might also be a issue for finding a viable affiliate.
 

210

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Does the ice plant in that building even still operate lol . The local arena seems big enough but like you guys said travel would be a killer. which might also be a issue for finding a viable affiliate.

From the article...
"Because hockey has not been played in the arena for about a decade, any ice-making infrastructure that remains is beyond use, Hill said."
 

PCSPounder

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Does the ice plant in that building even still operate lol . The local arena seems big enough but like you guys said travel would be a killer. which might also be a issue for finding a viable affiliate.

Any worse than Rapid City?

At least Alaska/Horizon Air serves Billings. Planes bigger than the Delta flight I endured from Minneapolis into RC. Not that I think the ECHL to AHL relationship is anywhere near as crucial as the AHL to NHL relationship.

Also, Billings metro is 28% larger than Rapid City, though at the low end of the scale, that only means so much.
 

PCSPounder

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A question: would Montana be in the Seattle TV "region" or the Denver TV "region"?

Because Seattle, once established. could do the same.

The Mariners and Rockies split Montana. Billings probably goes to Denver in that arrangement.

I really believe the AHL team ends up in Everett. Seattle can use an ECHL team for further outreach, and given where ECHL markets are situated at present, probably has to. Of course, this might be as simple as chasing the Stars out of Boise.
 

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