Confirmed with Link: "Doctor" Derek Ryan Signed 1y 1.425m

[Unsustainable]

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[JCLA]

Don't hate it. Maybe a bridge until they believe wallmark will be ready.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Is this a "significant" enough of an increase to justify the freaking out over the original tweet?

 

[the halleJOKEL]

yes always

 

[tarheelhockey]

Derek Ryan sucks.

 

[AD Skinner]

I got scared of the word significant but I really have no problem with this as long as he doesn't start getting top line minutes as soon as Skinner hits a cold snap. I wonder if they may move toward having 4 do-it-all lines instead of scoring lines/chip and change lines.

 

[Breakdowns]

At least only 1 year deal

 

[NotOpie]

This is nothing more than a Geico move.

 

[DougieSmash]

Worst day ever.

- He should be 13th forward.
- He must play RW.
- He will play center on third line.
- He's total waste of 4th line because can't play any D.
- Wallmark, good or not, probably brings the same production because he will pass the puck to Skinner.

 

[NotOpie]

Worst day ever.

- He should be 13th forward.
- He must play RW.
- He will play center on third line.
- He's total waste of 4th line because can't play any D.
- Wallmark, good or not, probably brings the same production because he will pass the puck to Skinner.

Weren't there a few shifts of Skinner/Wallmark/Lindholm last year. I seem to remember them being pretty good shifts.

I'm not advocating for it, but a playmaker of Wallmark's capabilities on Skinner's line wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. However, putting a rookie on Skinner's line and expecting big things from him, has "coach-killing move" all over it.

 

[bleedgreen]

It's a good insurance signing. He raised the skill level a bit, gave us more offensive depth and stepped up into a higher role when needed at times. Our overslotting him is a depth issue that's on the team, not him.

Had we landed a top 6 center maybe his wouldn't happen, though maybe they would've wanted him for the fourth line spot regardless. I think he's currently number three, with unknown player x knocking him down or Wallmark getting the fourth line spot.

 

[Ole Gil]

This is definitely Chad Larose 2.0. You can try to talk yourselves into him being on the 4th or #13, but much like Chad/Eric, Ryan's going to be right next to Skinner most of the season.

 

[geehaad]

This is definitely Chad Larose 2.0.

Ryan isn't the leech that LaRose was. He has the skill to make his linemates better.

 

[AD Skinner]

And as has been discussed, Skinner is going to get his no matter who he plays with. I just wish we had more options than someone who likely would not crack the roster on other NHL teams.

 

[Ole Gil]

Ryan isn't the leech that LaRose was. He has the skill to make his linemates better.

DR had a 3.31 GF/60 in 400 minutes with Skinner, and 1.06 GF/60 in 400 minutes without him.

But really, I'm just talking about how people who want him on the 4th line are going to be disappointed.

 

[Ole Gil]

And as has been discussed, Skinner is going to get his no matter who he plays with. I just wish we had more options than someone who likely would not crack the roster on other NHL teams.

In Ryan's defense, Skinner didn't just get his. He got the most he's ever gotten. 27 even strength goals is a lot. He hadn't broken 20 since his rookie season.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Ryan isn't the leech that LaRose was. He has the skill to make his linemates better.

He absolutely does not make his linemates better. He might help them score more points, but there's a distinction.

 

[DougieSmash]

Aside from the first season with Ruutu and Jokinen, last few years Skinner most frequent linemates are players like Dvorak, Nash, Ryan, Stempniak and etc. That's pretty strange.

 

[RodTheBawd]

DR had a 3.31 GF/60 in 400 minutes with Skinner, and 1.06 GF/60 in 400 minutes without him.

But really, I'm just talking about how people who want him on the 4th line are going to be disappointed.

How do those numbers look for the rest of Skinner's linemates?

 

[geehaad]

He absolutely does not make his linemates better. He might help them score more points, but there's a distinction.

Ok, I'll bite. How is helping them score more points different than the point I was making?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Ok, I'll bite. How is helping them score more points different than the point I was making?

He assists on Jeff Skinner's goals (and vice versa) but he does not make Skinner a better player. He's not the one driving offense on that line, and he's not doing anything in his own end that a replacement level player wouldn't do.

This becomes extremely apparent when you take Skinner away and suddenly Ryan is scoring at like a 5-point-per-season pace.

Replace Ryan with a traffic cone and maybe the line scores a handful fewer points, but it's not an appreciably worse line as long as the traffic cone gets in the way of a shot every now and then.

 

[Vagrant]

Aside from the first season with Ruutu and Jokinen, last few years Skinner most frequent linemates are players like Dvorak, Nash, Ryan, Stempniak and etc. That's pretty strange.

Not that there's any excuse for that, but I think the most common sentiment is that Skinner likes to play with players that will give him the puck and allow him to do whatever the hell he wants. The times we tried to pair him with Staal it just didn't work out because they're both the same kind of player in a sense. They want the play to start and end on their tape. I think when he starts trying to consider his linemates too much it takes away from the assertiveness and individualism that makes him special. Being on a line with Skinner means your job is to get the puck to Skinner and when Skinner doesn't have it your job is to try to get it back. He doesn't really need a setup man in a conventional sense. I don't like Skinner being in deferential mode to anyone else on the ice with him and the times we've tried to pair him with skill players that has been an issue.

As far as Ryan is concerned, I think I have made myself pretty clear on that. Great guy. Great team player. Great story. It just sucks that he's going to have to play over slot because we likely aren't going to be able to accomplish one of our offseason goals. I remember Francis talking early in the offseason about adding two top nine forwards or something to that effect and we haven't even been able to add one.

The thing about all the folks saying "30 points!" is that I don't know the number, but I would imagine that a certain amount of icetime is worth a certain amount of points at a relative level around the league. As the quality of the icetime increases and the quality of the linemates increases, that number also increases. The gut feeling that I have, and again I don't have the stats on it but I would imagine someone here likely does, is that adjusting for quality of icetime and quality of linemates, Derek Ryan's production last year was at BEST replacement level with those factors considered. Not to mention the fact that his shooting percentage was incredibly high and his even strength production incredibly low, indicating potential for an even worse encore. I truly believe that all things considered, you could plug Poturalski into the slot where Ryan occupied last season and expect similar statistical output. To me, that makes him a guy you'd probably want to move on from.

 

[NotOpie]

Ryan isn't the leech that LaRose was. He has the skill to make his linemates better.

Or at least he doesn't make them worse...

Not that there's any excuse for that, but I think the most common sentiment is that Skinner likes to play with players that will give him the puck and allow him to do whatever the hell he wants. The times we tried to pair him with Staal it just didn't work out because they're both the same kind of player in a sense. They want the play to start and end on their tape. I think when he starts trying to consider his linemates too much it takes away from the assertiveness and individualism that makes him special. Being on a line with Skinner means your job is to get the puck to Skinner and when Skinner doesn't have it your job is to try to get it back. He doesn't really need a setup man in a conventional sense. I don't like Skinner being in deferential mode to anyone else on the ice with him and the times we've tried to pair him with skill players that has been an issue.

As far as Ryan is concerned, I think I have made myself pretty clear on that. Great guy. Great team player. Great story. It just sucks that he's going to have to play over slot because we likely aren't going to be able to accomplish one of our offseason goals. I remember Francis talking early in the offseason about adding two top nine forwards or something to that effect and we haven't even been able to add one.

The thing about all the folks saying "30 points!" is that I don't know the number, but I would imagine that a certain amount of icetime is worth a certain amount of points at a relative level around the league. As the quality of the icetime increases and the quality of the linemates increases, that number also increases. The gut feeling that I have, and again I don't have the stats on it but I would imagine someone here likely does, is that adjusting for quality of icetime and quality of linemates, Derek Ryan's production last year was at BEST replacement level with those factors considered. Not to mention the fact that his shooting percentage was incredibly high and his even strength production incredibly low, indicating potential for an even worse encore. I truly believe that all things considered, you could plug Poturalski into the slot where Ryan occupied last season and expect similar statistical output. To me, that makes him a guy you'd probably want to move on from.

It always seemed to me Jeff actually performs well when he's got one linemate who is also a scoring threat and somebody on his line that clears space. Way back when, Erik Cole and Skinner spent time on the same line and it was damn effective. Cole helped Skinner not just by mentoring him, but took some of the defensive pressure off with his speed, size, and ability to put the puck in the net.

PDG served some of that space-clearing aspect a couple of seasons ago. He even "finished" on a couple of Skinner rebounds.

The other thing isn't so much that Skinner doesn't need a playmaker on his line, but he would benefit greatly from it. I'm sort of surprised that Teravainen wasn't tried on that line with Skinner and Rask. Would have thought that might have worked well. Regardless, that's why I think Skinner's line in particular is still a work in progress. He needs a space eater/clearer. He doesn't really have that today.

 

[geehaad]

He assists on Jeff Skinner's goals (and vice versa) but he does not make Skinner a better player.

Fine. Derek Ryan helps his teammates score more goals. LaRose did not.

 

[Roboturner913]

Skinner doesn't necessarily even need linemates that are really active with the puck all the time. He kinda just needs them to run interference for him, so to speak, and be around the net looking to cash in on the garbage. Honestly, to me, he's a center in all but name. He might not take faceoffs but his overall game is much closer to what you'd expect to see from a center than a winger. I think there's probably a point of diminishing returns on how good a player you want to line up with him; I'm not saying he should play with Nordy/Mcginn type pluggers but I think putting him with somebody like Aho or Staal for instance doesn't allow you to maximize those talents.