Do You Consider Ovechkin Generational?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Passchendaele

Registered User
Dec 11, 2006
7,731
1,148
I would not call Crosby's Hart record better. He has more nominations, OV has more wins and a better peak (back-to-back wins followed by a narrow miss).

Ovechkin also had at least two seasons derailed by injuries (10/11 and 15/16), which could have well improved his Hart record. The fact that he played through them does not mean he was healthy. Not to mention the 09/10 Hart he lost because of a little injury here, a short suspension there.

But yes, a Richard winner does not always win the Hart and sometimes is not even nominated. Just like the Art Ross winner does not always win (Jagr being a prime example, Iginla being probably the most controversial example) or sometimes is not even nominated (MSL 12/13, Benn 14/15).

As good as Iginla was, he most certainly DID NOT deserve the Hart that year. Flames were out of the playoffs.

Jose Theodore deserved it 100%. He was playing over his head every night and led a pretty bad team deprived of its best player for the whole season to the playoffs. You can't judge the man based on his less-than-stellar overall career. That very season, he was better than all of them. Roy, Brodeur, Burke, etc.
 

Beukeboom

Registered User
Apr 1, 2007
1,922
1,353
That's an odd standard, especially considering how Ovechkin has passed Hull and is, at least IMO, a better player than Hull was.
How has he passed Bobby Hull? By having less Arts? Less SC?

Bobby was the first to score more than 50 goals and back then the season was 70 games. He also got more goalscoring records. I am pretty sure Bobby Hull is at Ovie's level.
 
Last edited:

GreatGonzo

Surrounded by Snowflakes
May 26, 2011
8,860
2,902
South Of the Tank
How has he passed Bobby Hull? By having less Arts? Less SC?

Bobby was the first to score more than 50 goals and back then the season was 70 games. He also got more goalscoring records. I am pretty sure Bobby Hull is at Ovie's level.
3 Harts
3 Lindsay's
6 Rockets
1 Art Ross

So because Hull has a cup and 2 more Art Ross' means he's still better? Statistically as well, Ovechkins goal scoring is up there with the all time greats.

I'm not taking anything away from Hull because he truly was one of the all time best wingers, he was the beginning, while Ovechkin simply elevated the play. It isn't that far off to believe he has passed Hull.
 

Beukeboom

Registered User
Apr 1, 2007
1,922
1,353
3 Harts
3 Lindsay's
6 Rockets
1 Art Ross

So because Hull has a cup and 2 more Art Ross' means he's still better? Statistically as well, Ovechkins goal scoring is up there with the all time greats.

I'm not taking anything away from Hull because he truly was one of the all time best wingers, he was the beginning, while Ovechkin simply elevated the play. It isn't that far off to believe he has passed Hull.
It is not that far off, but to me they are pretty much equals. Their careers so far are exceedingly comparable. I don't see Hull as generational and thus neither is Ovie.

With that being said Hull left the NHL at 31 and Ovie keeps on writing his legancy. So once it is all said and done Ovie migh definately be seen as the better player. Hardly by a landslide thou.
 

Raym11

Registered User
Oct 6, 2009
8,173
1,892
This is NOT going to be a popular opinion but I think Ovechkin is generational and Crosby is not. In my opinion Ovechkin has a legit chance to be the greatest goal scorer of all time which makes him generational in my opinion.

Of course this all comes down to the question: what do you think generational means? I think it's a label that is used way too loosely.


Crosby is the greatest grinder of all time by those merits. Generational grinder
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,360
25,417
Fremont, CA
I consider him a generational goal scorer in the same manner that I consider Thornton a generational playmaker, but I don't consider either of them generational players, nor do I consider Crosby one.
 

Raym11

Registered User
Oct 6, 2009
8,173
1,892
this debate is simple, for 10 years you could say "The Big 3" and everyone who watched hockey knew exactly who you were talking about. Generational in their own rights. I think the word has been misused.

So yes. Ovechkin is generational for this era.


the other big 3, Orr Gretzky and Lemieux eclipsed what generational means in the sport of hockey. When people say Generational these days they don't mean that level of greatness.
 

GreatGonzo

Surrounded by Snowflakes
May 26, 2011
8,860
2,902
South Of the Tank
It is not that far off, but to me they are pretty much equals. Their careers so far are exceedingly comparable. I don't see Hull as generational and thus neither is Ovie.

With that being said Hull left the NHL at 31 and Ovie keeps on writing his legancy. So once it is all said and done Ovie migh definately be seen as the better player. Hardly by a landslide thou.
I think what Ovechkin did at his peak, along with being a constant top goal scorer in a lower scoring era puts him above Hull. But that's just my opinion. I definitely see where your coming from though.
 

CokenoPepsi

Registered User
Oct 28, 2016
4,749
2,223
Im starting to think we need a new term.

99, 66, 4 can all be upgraded to "legendary" status.

Guys like Crosby, Ovechkin and Jagr can be generational
 

Some Other Flame

Registered User
Dec 4, 2010
7,336
8,667
Ovechkin was absolutely generational

This place has a tendency to go off the deep and this is just another example. If the ridiculous standards here were carried over to real life, about two thirds of the Hall of Fame wouldn't be there.
 

end

Registered User
Mar 18, 2007
16,857
791
Arklay Mansion
So Esposito is generational too? (And keep in mind that he actually played the full seasons listed above and got 5 Art Rosses out of his ppg numbers, while Crosby got only 2, and 2 of Crosby's seasons you list above add up to 77 games combined).

Also, "the elite goal-scoring class" Ovechkin belongs to includes Howe and not Esposito.
How is Esposito not the most dominant forward of his time? Esposito broke the goal scoring record by 18. It would be like if Ovechkin scored 110 in 2007-08. Imagine being in 1971 and telling everyone that what Espo is doing is actually not that important historically.

Howe is lovely but when it comes to scoring goals at a dominant level over time you should find something to show to put him in that class. Howe led the league in goals 5 times, Esposito and Ovechkin 6 times. I think better evidence would be times leading in goals per game; Hull (8), Ovechkin and Lemieux (6), then Esposito, Richard and Conacher (5). Howe and Gretzky led the league in GPG three times.

It's also pretty funny how people are so quick to give Crosby credit for ~30 game seasons in 10/11 and 11/12 "he would've 100% won the ross and hart, look at his PPG!". But when Ovechkin led the league in PPG over 70+ games in 08/09 and 09/10, people act like it never happened.
Yes, and that year Caps fans acted like PPG really mattered. Strangely this opinion disappeared after that season. It was similar to how during their rookie season Caps fans insisted Ovechkin's slightly better team success was proof of Crosby's inferior status.

I like Ovechkin but I also like Crosby (and Esposito) and I'm not going to watch dirt be kicked on any of them.
 

Zuluss

Registered User
May 19, 2011
2,436
2,027
Howe is lovely but when it comes to scoring goals at a dominant level over time you should find something to show to put him in that class. Howe led the league in goals 5 times, Esposito and Ovechkin 6 times. I think better evidence would be times leading in goals per game; Hull (8), Ovechkin and Lemieux (6), then Esposito, Richard and Conacher (5). Howe and Gretzky led the league in GPG three times.

Here are the numbers of goal-scoring titles, as well as top3, top5, top10 finishes:
Howe: 5*1st, 12*top3, 14*top5, 19*top10
Esposito: 6*1st, 7*top3, 8*top5, 9*top10

Here are percentage leads over 5th place in goals:
Howe: 81-74-65-42-31-30-27-15-11-10-7-3-0-0
Esposito: 90-43-42-30-28-13-11-0

Add to that the fact that NHL coexisted with WHA during the 1970s and the talent pool was diluted, as well as the impact Bobby Orr had on Esposito's numbers, and Howe is worlds ahead of Esposito as a goal-scorer. Esposito did not last long enough either at his peak or as an elite goal-scorer to be compared to Howe.
 

Zuluss

Registered User
May 19, 2011
2,436
2,027
As good as Iginla was, he most certainly DID NOT deserve the Hart that year. Flames were out of the playoffs.

That's what is wrong with Hart votes sometimes. They go as if putting a player on a stacked team and having him produce at the same rate would somehow make him better (just because the stacked team won the division/President trophy).
 

hockeykicker

Moderator
Dec 3, 2014
35,065
12,505
How has he passed Bobby Hull? By having less Arts? Less SC?

Bobby was the first to score more than 50 goals and back then the season was 70 games. He also got more goalscoring records. I am pretty sure Bobby Hull is at Ovie's level.

hey buddy, ovechkin scored 50 goals in 70 games too. just cause the season is 82 games now doesnt mean he didnt have 50 goals by game 70
 

Beukeboom

Registered User
Apr 1, 2007
1,922
1,353
hey buddy, ovechkin scored 50 goals in 70 games too. just cause the season is 82 games now doesnt mean he didnt have 50 goals by game 70
True. But still, Bobby Hull set a new goal scoring record and did so at least one more time that I can recall, maybe even more. He also got a new NHL point per season record. Obviously that would be pretty much impossible to do after #99 but it kind of shows what level Hull was at. Bobby on several occasions did something no one had ever done before. He also led the league in goal scoring 7 times during his 15 proper NHL seasons.

So to say Ovechkin is clearly better than Hull is not backed up with stats and achievements. You can make a case but it is not by a wide margin in that case. Not as of now, but he still seems to have some great hockey in him. Even so I don't deem him as generational and neither was Hull.
 

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
46,844
22,691
NB
I don't like throwing the word "generational" around loosely, but Ovy is so far ahead of everyone else in terms of goal-scoring, over such a long period, that it's hard not to think he's a once-in-a-generation shooter, at the very least.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->