DDRhockey
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Diego Armando Maradona
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DDRhockey
Hockeyfan since 1986
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Maradona played his prime in the 80s when serie a was the best league. He took a budget team to several titles. The other players played with world class teammates.
For starters, Serie A didn't hit its "NBA status" until the 90s. By the time the 7 sisters were at their peak, Napoli was in Serie B (Milan, Juve, Inter, Roma, Lazio, Parma, Fiorentina).
Second, Napoli was never a "budget" team. At the time, you could only have 3 foreigners in your squad - and Napoli had Maradona, Careca and later Alemao.
They also had Ciro Ferrara, Carnevale, De Napoli etc. - all players who were being called up to Italy squads.
Maradona's club career left a lot to be desired and absolutely pales in comparison to almost every other player from that "best ever" tier.
Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Platini, Zidane, Messi, Cristiano, etc. (can't really compare Pele as he never came to Europe)
All of them dwarf Maradona's club career.
As far as I'm concerned, Maradona was one of the most talented ever, along with Messi.
He is in that top tier of the "best ever" players - but ultimately, he falls behind players like Cruyff, Messi, Cristiano, Platini, etc.
And I realize defenders will never be the sexy picks, but if you asked me today, knowing everything I know about these guys, whether I'd pick Maradona or Baresi/Maldini for my club, I'd pick the latter 10 out of 10 times.
(at the same time, I'd still pick guys like Cruyff, Messi, Cristiano, Platini, Zidane, etc. over Maldini/Baresi/etc.)
DDRhockey
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Why is club career only important? Maradona has cleary one of the best international careers ever.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
The argentinian Gerd Müller had a fine international career, but one of the best ever? Come now.
He had one of the best tournaments ever, like Fontaine or Platini did.
But outside of that, much like his club career, Maradona's performances and results left a lot to be desired.
In 1982 a strong Argentina side was ousted in round 2, beating only Honduras and Hungary, and losing to Brazil, Italy and Belgium. He scored 2 goals vs Hungary, but was completely neutralized in other matches (including the infamous Gentile man-marking).
In 1990, his performance was rather pedestrian (admittedly, he was coming off an injury) and Argentina squeeked through the group stage, and then scored 2 goals in 3 games to get to the finals (1-0 va Brazil, penalty shootout wins vs Yugoslavia and Italy), then lost in the final to Germany going scoreless again.
1990 was a pretty awful tournament and everyone played defensive football, but Argentina were one of the worst culprits.
He scored no goals in the tournament and honestly looked really pedestrian the whole tournament.
In 1994, they had a good group stage (though they did lose to Bulgaria), but then Maradona was sidelined because of the doping test and they lost to Romania 3-2 (in possibly the best game of the tournament, along side the QF between Brazil and Holland).
He scored a goal vs Greece (fantastic one, after great passing), but Argentina largely didn't depend on him at that point anway.
So, his international career really does boil down to one tournament, when you look back at it.
Maradona in 1986 is the greatest individual performance in a final series I've ever seen.
But in addition to agreeing with your assessment of his performances in other World Cups (giving an honourable mention to the fabulous passage of play that mugged Brazil in the 1990 round of 16), it's often forgotten that he featured as a regular in two Copa Americas (as well as being mainly a reserve in a third). He won neither, and in 1989 he failed to score at all. That can't be attributed to him turning provider: he started six games, in which Argentina netted a mere two goals in total.
Admittedly a spate of red cards didn't help the team, but then again, the myth of Maradona would have it that in 86 he carried little short of a bunch of traffic cones to glory.
Notwithstanding that trio are substantially different players from one another, I'd be surprised if anyone argued that Maradona's peak and career weren't some way ahead.
DDRhockey
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YNWA14
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Yeah you'll see that a lot in older videos (the defending is atrocious). It's why you shouldn't compare across generations. There's no way Maradona scores that goal today, and I don't really think he has the discipline as a person to conform to today's training standards either.
Make no mistake that today's football is the hardest to play. The atheltic and structural advances alone over the last 20 years are ridiculous.
Make no mistake that today's football is the hardest to play. The atheltic and structural advances alone over the last 20 years are ridiculous.
DDRhockey
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Well isnt it the same in hockey? Gretzky wouldnt score today like he did in the 80s.
Incubajerks
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YNWA14
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Absolutely. Though I think Gretzky would conform a bit better to the different athletic demands (training, diet) of today. Still the hockey being played then vs. now is night and day and it's why you can't really compare today's players to him in terms of their scoring exploits. I think that applies to most sports actually. It's natural progression; players today are more dedicated, more athletic, better trained, etc. and have the past to look on for inspiration/to learn. Each generation should be better than the last in theory with diminishing gains over time.
I still think Maradonna is extremely overrated based on what I've seen and a lot of the reasoning provided here.
Duchene2MacKinnon
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YNWA14
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It was a better goal IMO, but I also think that Messi is better.
I spent too many years watching Mike Williamson to be emphatic on this score.
And I have a contractual obligation to churn out the stale but true point that attacking players of the present generation benefit from all sorts of changes introduced with the specific intention of making it easier for them to create and score goals.
Prior to 1992, the pitches, the equipment and the rules (as well as the enforcement of the rules) abetted defenders.
By the bye, the best defenders of the old era nevertheless survived into the new. Which is why a peak Ronaldo was left marvelling at the prowess of a 38 year old Pietro Vierchowod.
It should be said that the 80s were a grim decade for English football generally, not least because the tendency of the clubs to play long ball football brought about platoons of centre backs whose games revolved around headers and going to ground to tackle. Such players were ill suited to dealing with Maradona's supreme balance (aided by a very low centre of gravity) and close control.
In 1986, those problems were compounded when Mark Wright, who would have started at CB, suffered a broken leg. Even at the time, Terry Fenwick's selection was judged dubious.
Likewise, Peter Reid, although an integral part of a great Everton team, would not have played had Bryan Robson not popped a shoulder and Ray Wilkins been sent off for throwing the ball at a referee.
Nor did it help that an English aversion to sports science disadvantaged them when it came to adapting to Mexico's heat and altitude. They pretty much stepped off the plane resigned to the idea that maintaining fitness would be a struggle. Sure enough, the issue came to pass.
Lastly, the goal occurred minutes after Maradona's unjustly awared first goal. Some English minds may have been still focused on that rather than the job at hand.
In short, even at the time, if you'd asked experts to point you to a really good defence, they wouldn't have directed you to watch England.
Whilst I'm not as harsh on Maradona as some others here, I'm more alert to the question marks about his place in the pantheon.
Even so, I remember umpteen conversations about football in the late 90s during which the observation was made, 'football is so much better now, goals like Maradona scored in '86 would never happen because players are stronger and faster and defending is better'.
Were that theory correct, we shouldn't have witnessed the emergence of Messi.
Even so, I remember umpteen conversations about football in the late 90s during which the observation was made, 'football is so much better now, goals like Maradona scored in '86 would never happen because players are stronger and faster and defending is better'.
Were that theory correct, we shouldn't have witnessed the emergence of Messi.
YNWA14
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I don't think anyone said 'goals like that' can't be scored only that he wouldn't score them today (or rather that the defence wouldn't look like that today, even in Messi's goal it was more impressive IMO as they were not just basically allowing Messi to walk through them). The discussion specifically there was that it's relative and why it's so hard to compare across generations. The game changes too much, as do the players and the coaches. We can argue forever about players' place in history as to where they should be or shouldn't be but it's best to just compare them to their peers in a similar timeframe. Otherwise there are too many moving pieces.
Put the Messi that scored that goal in the 80s and he could probably dribble the entire field with his close control and acceleration.
Put the Messi that scored that goal in the 80s and he could probably dribble the entire field with his close control and acceleration.
