Speculation: Did Torts pull his goalie KNOWING Detroit tied the game and the Flyers were already eliminated?

[Bondurant]

I don't care what motivated Torts or what he did or did not know? He owes Detroit nothing. He can call his shots however he chooses.

Don't lose 7 games in a row. Sign reliable goalies and defensemen. Yzerman has made some late stage Holland type signings and it hurt.

 

[SirloinUB]

Other than being the lamest playoff elimination of all time this is a nothingburger.

 

[Frobbo]

How about the Wings going up by two early and take the decision out of Torts hands? He probably plays for OT to try and finish the season strong with a couple of wins after a horrific stretch. Skin of teeth win against a lottery team was part of this too.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

THEY NEEDED A REGULATION WIN. They weren't watching the Wings game, they were trying to win their own game. Getting to OT with WSH was the end of their season regardless what Detroit did. Also, why on earth would he do it? Just to screw with his "arch nemesis Detroit Red Wings?"

While I agree on one point... they absolutely were paying attention to the other game. Guys on the ice, no. Guys in the pressbox? Yes. Especially in a game with playoff implications like that one? They absolutely had people paying very close attention to it.

While it shouldn't have changed Torts's plan... it's simply a falsehood to say that Philly would not have known. Known in enough time to react to not pull the goalie when you're talking the space of a minute or two? No. But they absolutely had eyes on the Wings game.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I don't care what motivated Torts or what he did or did not know? He owes Detroit nothing. He can call his shots however he chooses.

Don't lose 7 games in a row. Sign reliable goalies and defensemen. Yzerman has made some late stage Holland type signings and it hurt.

Definitely agree on this.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Yep. Because by losing they guaranteed a better first round pick, they dropped 2 positions and could now get the 2nd overall pick with lottery luck. If you’re eliminated there’s no point in screwing up your draft position. You’re assuming intent that you can’t assume because there’s a way more reasonable explanation.

No, the reason is that Torts didn't care what happened in the Detroit game. His staff did and if it was 100% clear even ten minutes earlier, they would have resigned themselves to the fact. Like if Detroit had tied with 10 minutes to go in Philly's game... they don't pull the goalie, probably.

It's got nothing to do with draft position or negligence. Torts and his players were operating under the "we have to win this game in regulation or we're dead". The staffers wouldn't have had time in the span of about two-three minutes to pull the "don't yank the goalie" alarm in time for it to matter.
Philly was trying to win. But they couldn't solve Charlie Lindgren who apparently is either Dominik f***ing Hasek or Vesa f***ing Toskala with no steps inbetween.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Definitely agree on this.

I don't. He made those "Holland era type signings" because he wanted young guys like Raymond and Seider to be in playoff like atmospheres. The Wings collapsed because they were operating with a career backup and a #3 goalie as their "starters" for the year. They lost the momentum when Lyon got overworked and Reimer was asked to do more than a spot start here or there along with Larkin dipping out for two weeks without them adding anything at the TDL.

I have no problem with the Wings signings except maybe Holl. I don't hate Copp or Compher.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Some people should be embarrassed by what they posted in this thread. It's almost amusing given how little it actually matters in the bigger scheme of things.

 

[14ari13]

No because the Caps still had ways to get in with one point. Obviously that goes away once we win in the shootout but you don't know that at the time.

But the caps would not be comfortable to go to ot knowing that if we win and they lose in ot they would not make it. It would make them nervous and maybe easier for flyers to score.
Had the flyers scored straight away the caps could pull their goalie and try to equalise.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I don't. He made those "Holland era type signings" because he wanted young guys like Raymond and Seider to be in playoff like atmospheres. The Wings collapsed because they were operating with a career backup and a #3 goalie as their "starters" for the year. They lost the momentum when Lyon got overworked and Reimer was asked to do more than a spot start here or there along with Larkin dipping out for two weeks without them adding anything at the TDL.

I have no problem with the Wings signings except maybe Holl. I don't hate Copp or Compher.

You like the Copp signing and term? Yeah its a no for me on that.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

You like the Copp signing and term? Yeah its a no for me on that.

No, I don't hate it. Would I have signed that contract? Probably not. But honestly, it's not an Abby-level deal or even a Weird Flip type of deal.

Copp is a fine player and the cap is still going up. That dollar and term is nowhere near as f***in terrible as Nielsen in 2016 or Abdelkader in 2014.

Why is everything that if I don't excoriate something that I'm in love with it? Copp is overpaid by a little, not a lot.

 

[Gniwder]

Yep. Because by losing they guaranteed a better first round pick, they dropped 2 positions and could now get the 2nd overall pick with lottery luck. If you’re eliminated there’s no point in screwing up your draft position. You’re assuming intent that you can’t assume because there’s a way more reasonable explanation.

For sure, imagine if we're a Flyers fans (god forbid, lol), and they dropped 2 spots in the draft by winning a meaningless game. We'd all be pissed.

People here lack perspective.


Edit: Imagine if we were Flyers fans, we'd be even bigger assholes to each other, lol.

 

[GreytWun]

Maybe just maybe the Wings should have played better in March so that we didn’t have to depend on other teams to make it in. Just saying.

 

[PavelDatsyuk13DET]

He needs a goal to go, they have scored one in 57 minutes. Totally fine with Torts and the Flyers serving their interests. The empty net goal happened on a very tight timeline for those of us following both games live in the moment.

If you don’t want to rely on someone else close out the second period against Washington a couple weeks ago.

The Wings have themselves to blame for being at home. They played 82 games and didn’t have the tiebreakers. Not real interested in this narrative over the last few days, it is a strange sour grapes in my opinion.

Lots of coaches have also moved closer to the three minute mark since Roy became a coach.

3 minutes vs 1:30 seems to be a difference of opinion. A lot of coaches wouldn't have done it that early, Torts did. Agreed on having nobody but ourselves to blame.

 

[WaW]

Torts did nothing wrong.

Would be nice if there was some way to stop this from ever happening again, but it's really sort of a give and take. I think having those two games happen simultaneously was an injection of late season drama the league kinda needed. Shitty that we drew the short straw in the end.

 

[Gniwder]

3 minutes vs 1:30 seems to be a difference of opinion. A lot of coaches wouldn't have done it that early, Torts did. Agreed on having nobody but ourselves to blame.

When did the Wings pull their goalie?


There's a difference between playoffs being on the line vs one game during the regular season. Plus I've noticed a trend of coaches pulling the goalie earlier either way.

 

[PavelDatsyuk13DET]

When did the Wings pull their goalie?


There's a difference between playoffs being on the line vs one game during the regular season. Plus I've noticed a trend of coaches pulling the goalie earlier either way.

I don't recall what time exactly they pulled their goalie, it would be interesting if there was actual data to support this trend that some people are seeing. I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

There shouldn't be any difference between "one regular season game" vs when the playoffs are on the line in terms of pulling your goalie especially for a team like the Wings. Every point is going to matter for this team so they should be doing everything possible to win. Clearly every point matters, if we had one more point then we would have made it instead of Washington.

 

[The Real Pastafarian]

I feel like the league should have intervened. Sort of like in a poker tournament on the bubble and you play hand for hand. The refs stop the game and face off at center ice formally informing the Flyers they are eliminated and put their goalie back in.

You think the league should have ordered them to put their goalie back in??? OK, I don't want to go ad hominem, but that might be the most absurd thing I've ever read on this forum.

You said that had Torts known the Flyers were eliminated, and he still pulled his goalie, that would be unethical. Wouldn't it be precisely the opposite? If he knew his team was eliminated and then changed his strategy based on the fact that they were out, just to affect the playoff chances of other teams, that would be unethical.

Torts had to assume that the Red Wings would lose in regulation, because that had to happen for the Flyers to make the playoffs, and it was something he could not influence. He would not have been watching that score because there was no reason to, it would be a needless distraction.

But even if he learned that the Flyers had been knocked out seconds before pulling the goalie, and still pulled the goalie, that would be a) the most ethical course and b) the best course of action for his team because i) maybe the report about the Red Wings making OT was wrong -- maybe it was Caps misinformation for example and ii) maybe the Red Wings equalizing goal would be overturned by Toronto. Maybe the Red Wings would forfeit the game because of something the league would find out after the game. Again, Torts would have to assume/hope that this would happen, because it would have to happen for them to make it in.

 

[SoupNazi]

This poll is pretty definitive in the answers.