Did Tim Murray destroy our rebuild?

[old kummelweck]

Isn't Reinhart currently playing wing on the fourth line? Seem like he's one bad game away from the press box.

 

[old kummelweck]

He has rarely been placed in a position where he excels the most, so you can't accurately assess his full potential.

That is utter and complete garbage. No one has gotten more time to develop at the NHL level in the sabres organization than Reinhart.

 

[Der Jaeger]

That is utter and complete garbage. No one has gotten more time to develop at the NHL level in the sabres organization than Reinhart.

IDK. He's a center, and spent two seasons developing as a puck retrieval winger in a heavy system.

If the Sabres really wanted to develop him, they'd put him at center with talented wingers for a season or two.

I think he'll develop into what he'll be around the end of his 4th season. My marker for him is Sedin due to similarities in play style. That's when things clicked for Sedin.

 

[old kummelweck]

IDK. He's a center, and spent two seasons developing as a puck retrieval winger in a heavy system.

If the Sabres really wanted to develop him, they'd put him at center with talented wingers for a season or two.

I think he'll develop into what he'll be around the end of his 4th season. My marker for him is Sedin due to similarities in play style. That's when things clicked for Sedin.

That's looking way too high a ceiling to me right now. I hope he finds his game.

It seems like the experts has 2014 entry draft wrong. Can we get a Mulligan?

 

[Der Jaeger]

That's looking way too high a ceiling to me right now. I hope he finds his game.

It seems like the experts has 2014 entry draft wrong. Can we get a Mulligan?

I don't think Sedin is Reinhart's ceiling. They are similar stylistically. I think Reinhart will take a while to round his game out. Sedin did.

 

[Buffaloed]

He made the right call to get Lafontaine here. He needed someone to oversee the organization. Where it fell apart was allowing Tim to bypass Pat and let the issues cause Pat to quit. An owner would let Tim know who he answers to and Pat should've been that guy. Terry has destroyed any image of an NHL team that the Buffalo Sabres once were. Looking at this organization, this franchise is unstable. This falls on Terry's decisions. He's making it wose by allowing Russ Brandon to be a part of the organization.

Murray: I want to tank so we can get the #1 pick
Lafontaine: You're fired!

 

[valet]

Murray: I want to tank so we can get the #1 pick
Lafontaine: You're fired!

Then Russ Brandon swoops in and coddles Murray, while LaFontaine 'falls' in a staff meeting and develops another concussion, forcing him to retire from his front office position.

 

[OkimLom]

Murray: I want to tank so we can get the #1 pick
Lafontaine: You're fired!

Pretty sure they would’ve discussed that in their interview of his plan.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Sabretooth]

* Linus Ullmark – The Amerks' MVP last season is a winner this year as a 24-year-old. In his opening 16 appearances with Rochester, Ullmark was 10-3-2 with a .919 save percentage. He might be Buffalo's most legitimate prospect.

That's maybe the most depressing thing of the whole article.

 

[Chainshot]

Why the frown?

That's maybe the most depressing thing of the whole article.

Yeah, that the guy who is supposed to be paid to provide thoughtful coverage of the team thinks that Ullmark is the Sabres most legitimate prospect is pretty depressing. Hell, I can think of three or four posters here who could do a better assessment of an old rating list, including putting it into both temporal and performance context, than that piece.

 

[Kyndig]

Murray destroyed the acronym PP for me.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Why the frown?



Yeah, that the guy who is supposed to be paid to provide thoughtful coverage of the team thinks that Ullmark is the Sabres most legitimate prospect is pretty depressing. Hell, I can think of three or four posters here who could do a better assessment of an old rating list, including putting it into both temporal and performance context, than that piece.

It's a sad face for a prospect pool that hasn't delivered.

 

[Chainshot]

Murray destroyed the acronym PP for me.

Clearly with how the team is performing on the man advantage, they are collectively slapping the PP.

 

[Chainshot]

It's a sad face for a prospect pool that hasn't delivered.

Four defensemen of various stripes, a good 40+point versatile forward, a good 30+ point versatile forward and 4 depth forwards all in the NHL? I'm not sure what Vogl is trying to do with the article outside of perhaps deflate expectations he himself tried to set.

Those suspects also turned into the top 2-way player on the team (O'Reilly), the team's leading goal score (Kane), their second pairing RHD (Bogosian) and perhaps the most complete prospect in the organization (Asplund). Five of the guys on that list are still in the system and it's possible they may still contribute (hell, Fasching is right now) or be turned into other assets. I don't get the doom.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Four defensemen of various stripes, a good 40+point versatile forward, a good 30+ point versatile forward and 4 depth forwards all in the NHL? I'm not sure what Vogl is trying to do with the article outside of perhaps deflate expectations he himself tried to set.

Those suspects also turned into the top 2-way player on the team (O'Reilly), the team's leading goal score (Kane), their second pairing RHD (Bogosian) and perhaps the most complete prospect in the organization (Asplund). Five of the guys on that list are still in the system and it's possible they may still contribute (hell, Fasching is right now) or be turned into other assets. I don't get the doom.

That all sounds nice, but it hasn't translated into a better team on the ice with respect to bottom line won/loss results. Thus we have a new GM/Coach combo. They look worse than ever with the talk of dismantling the team.

 

[Chainshot]

That all sounds nice, but it hasn't translated into a better team on the ice with respect to bottom line won/loss results. They look worse than ever with the talk of dismantling the team.

Prospect rankings and power polls don't usually mean much. But then again, that could just be age. I have THN prospect issues spanning decades and it's often the same thing: hope that can later be turned into doom. It's also easy to run players over when they are slumping. If the team starts winning and some of those players start churning out G's and A's or regularly doing better than breaking even in the +'s, someone like Vogl will get to write the "gee, they stuck with it and look at them now" daisy-and-sunshine piece. Which can then be turned into another doom-sayer hit-job when next that guy slumps or is traded.

 

[cramdizzl]

Funny how optimistic everyone was for Pegula's hires until they have the benefit of hindsight. Now it's all his fault and they were obviously bad decisions from the start.

He made the mistake of trusting Murray too much, but TM is the one who pulled the trigger and overpaid for "his guys". Same with Rex. At least going forward we have an owner willing to spend to win, who has already made mistakes to learn from.

 

[Chainshot]

Funny how optimistic everyone was for Pegula's hires until they have the benefit of hindsight. Now it's all his fault and they were obviously bad decisions from the start.

He made the mistake of trusting Murray too much, but TM is the one who pulled the trigger and overpaid for "hig guys". Same with Rex. At least going forward we have an owner willing to spend to win, who has already made mistakes to learn from.

Optimistic? Pegs left Regier in charge instead of clearing house, then sat by to watch him install Rolston as a permanent coach. He then hired LaFontaine as a transition guy after having dinner with him in what looks like a total fan-boy move. The rift then between Murray and LaFontaine and the direction of the team gets Pat to resign -- it's been a complete front-office disaster under Pegula and there remains a void at the top where an experience hockey person should be the team president.

This mess starts with the owner and rolls down hill, picking up momentum as it goes.

 

[pigpen65]

Appeal to authority of Phil Housley? Try again.

First Nolan, then Bylsma, now Housley. At some point it's gotta sink it that it's the player and not the coach.

 

[pigpen65]

Optimistic? Pegs left Regier in charge instead of clearing house, then sat by to watch him install Rolston as a permanent coach. He then hired LaFontaine as a transition guy after having dinner with him in what looks like a total fan-boy move. The rift then between Murray and LaFontaine and the direction of the team gets Pat to resign -- it's been a complete front-office disaster under Pegula and there remains a void at the top where an experience hockey person should be the team president.

This mess starts with the owner and rolls down hill, picking up momentum as it goes.

You just summed up perfectly what he said. Majority liked when Regier was fired. Majority liked when Lafontaine was brought in. Majority liked the Murray hire. Majority sided with Murray over Lafontaine. Majority liked going for Babcock. Majority liked hiring Bylsma. Yeah, in hindsight these all look like complete disasters, but the majority of fans loved these things when they happened.

 

[HaNotsri]

First Nolan, then Bylsma, now Housley. At some point it's gotta sink it that it's the player and not the coach.

While the players are accountable - if we’re bad at recruiting we’ll end up with bad coaches. We are far more likely to hire a bad coach than a good one considering our track record.

 

[tsujimoto74]

First Nolan, then Bylsma, now Housley. At some point it's gotta sink it that it's the player and not the coach.

I'll admit, watching the team this year, I may have been too hard on Bylsma. I also don't deny (and never have) that there are problems with the way our roster is built. Doesn't change the fact, though, that none of those guys are good coaches.

Losing out on the Babcock sweepstakes still stings.

 

[OkimLom]

Optimistic? Pegs left Regier in charge instead of clearing house, then sat by to watch him install Rolston as a permanent coach. He then hired LaFontaine as a transition guy after having dinner with him in what looks like a total fan-boy move. The rift then between Murray and LaFontaine and the direction of the team gets Pat to resign -- it's been a complete front-office disaster under Pegula and there remains a void at the top where an experience hockey person should be the team president.

This mess starts with the owner and rolls down hill, picking up momentum as it goes.

Yep. You can make as many changes as you want on your team, be it with the head coach or with players, but unless Pegula changes his approach to this organization's leadership structure and giving his trust to an experienced Hockey Management Personnel team, then you will see the same mediocre results we've seen under his ownership. The team itself may get a few more wins here and there and fans may get a little happy, but this team is not structured for short term success with the state of the team's leadership, nor is it built for long term consistent success.

I'll admit, watching the team this year, I may have been too hard on Bylsma. I also don't deny (and never have) that there are problems with the way our roster is built. Doesn't change the fact, though, that none of those guys are good coaches.

Losing out on the Babcock sweepstakes still stings.

I don't think we were too hard on Bylsma even with the amount of knowledge we had. He had a horrible system that didn't suit any of the player's abilities. What we didn't know for sure was how he was behind the scenes with the players. He's a head coach whose job was to teach these young guys. He was the 1st line of mentoring, teaching, and discipline for some of them, and it is very apparent he was not up to the task with his reported refusal to interact with the team unless it was necessary.

With that said, that doesn't address the issue that is the roster which was lacking, but fixable. But in the NHL you can have an average talented roster, and with a proper head coach that is willing to teach, and players willing to listen to the coach, you can be competitive.

 

[Fezzy126]

Optimistic? Pegs left Regier in charge instead of clearing house, then sat by to watch him install Rolston as a permanent coach. He then hired LaFontaine as a transition guy after having dinner with him in what looks like a total fan-boy move. The rift then between Murray and LaFontaine and the direction of the team gets Pat to resign -- it's been a complete front-office disaster under Pegula and there remains a void at the top where an experience hockey person should be the team president.

This mess starts with the owner and rolls down hill, picking up momentum as it goes.

Why do the Sabres need one of those when we have...