Did Tim Murray destroy our rebuild?

EichHart

Registered User
Jul 3, 2011
14,417
4,751
Hamburg, NY
Saw this post on facebook, it's been talked about a lot but just look at this. Murray was the worse thing to ever happen to this franchise.

When your burn assets and $ like a drunken sailor, draft poorly and have very little to show for it youre on the road to disaster, which is where Murray's 'accelerated' rebuild has left us.

Good rebuilds are almost always done primarily through the draft, whereas ours focused primarily on burning picks/prospects for established/veteran players that have largely underwhelmed. When you have as many holes as we did post-tank and have as many misses as TM did both in the draft and in trades it doesn't take a genius to figure out what went wrong.

This is what we have to show for it going forward on some of TM's finest work...

Pysyk for Kulikov - Nothing (did swap 2 picks for 1 to move up)

TWO 3rds for Disco/Vesey - Nothing

2015 1st for Lehner & Salary dump - Shaky starter that could well be gone next year for nothing

2015 1st, Myers, Stafford, Lemieux, ArmIa - DJ Blowgo liability @ $5.2M through 2020 & whatever we get for Kane at the deadline (mid-late 1st?)

2016 2nd for Gorges - Nothing since Gorges is untradeable and a liability/scratch

TWO 2nds, McNabb, Parker for Dez/Fasching - At best a 4th line player in Fasching, likely nothing.

In all that's (2) 2015 Firsts, (3) Seconds, (2) Thirds, Myers, Stafford, Armia, Lemieux, McNabb, Pysyk and Parker for whatever Kane gets us at the deadline, a shaky goalie that should be gone next year, a made of glass Dman who's brutal even when rarely healthy plus has a back-loaded contract with $5.2M cap hit through 2020 and a 4th liner at best in Fasching.

He drafted Nylander over Serg, McCavoy and Chrychrun.

The Moulson and Okposo contracts.

The list goes on and on.

What's most amazing to me is how long many defended Murray, seemingly for little more reason than liking his gruff demeanor, ridiculous mannerisms and the idea that he was the anti-Darcy. Fast forward to today and it's nearly universal dislike with a consensus of his tenure here being an outright disaster.
 

CatsforReinhart

Registered User
Jul 27, 2014
7,315
1,623
Frankfurt
All he had to do was draft the picks Darcy loaded up on and we would be better.

On a side not maybe Bylsma wasn't so bad.
 
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kp2575

Ray's Pocket Square
Feb 11, 2015
168
53
PDX
The franchise has essentially been mismanaged for a decade now in one form or another.

-The loss of their two franchise players for nothing
-Handling of Vanek’s offer sheet
-The poor contracts that were handed out
-Darcy’s shit draft record
-Eveything stated in the OP

Pretty much the only thing that was done right in the last decade was the dismantling of the team and that got wasted away. It’s not looking good for the forseeable future.
 

CatsforReinhart

Registered User
Jul 27, 2014
7,315
1,623
Frankfurt
Yes he was. We were going nowhere with his system and behavior. Now Housley is clearly not any better but that doesn't excuse Disco Dan.
So Bylsma had this team in his first year one game under .500. Housley has the same team if not better and it looks like a trainwreck.
 

buffalowing88

Registered User
Aug 11, 2008
4,294
1,740
Charlotte, NC
I think Murray had an idea of a good team and I don't discredit him for some of the trades. Any of you who say differently should look at our comments when he was hired and then went about making trades. In reality, I just think this is a franchise in the midst of a decade-long problem that isn't going to be solved by a three-year window or rebuild, let alone a near decade of being irrelevant.

The team is simply too far gone at this point and I fully expect that the next time we make the playoffs, names like Reinhart, O'Reilly, Ristolainen, Kane, and Eichel will have already found success elsewhere. The fan base needs to settle back into tank commander yet again for this new GM and explore the possibility that we have to go back to the drawing board.

I hate to sound so pessimistic but I have been a member of this board for nearly a decade and while my posts have tailed off in the last three years, I attribute that to finding happiness in other parts of my life. The Sabres are a toxic franchise right now and while I hope that changes in the future, I'm also aware that it won't for quite some time. The league has changed and adapted and the Sabres have failed to do so time and again and it's just past the point of investing in it any longer. This is not a s@#t post, merely a message of complacency, that my life is better without worrying about an inevitability that has become a Sabres' loss and I imagine it's the same for many of you. Those who continue rooting for them, I give nothing but the utmost respect. I know it's been hard, I've just never seen it this bad in 29 years nor do I think that it will change any time soon and I have enough ulcers to worry about.
 
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Duddy

Everyday is
Dec 24, 2005
12,048
1,371
Complete and utter nonsense. There is only one person who is responsible for the Sabres' failure to build a winning organization and his name is Terry Pegula.
Basically this. For all the good he is doing forin Buffalo, he made/makes too many bad decisions for his hockey team.
 

Yatzhee

Registered User
Aug 5, 2010
8,817
2,320
No, Murray isn't solely to blame, but he bares a good portion of the responsibility. Reiger does as well.

What's done is done and cannot be undone. Pegula made the right choice in Botterill, his philosophy of a strong farm system and pipeline combined with his experience as a cap savvy AGM makes him the right individual at the right time for the job.

Fixing this mess will take a plan, and that plan is to build around Jack Eichel. There will be no rush this time I suspect. I fully expect ROR, Okposo and Kane to be moved, each for assets that adhere to the plan.
As for Risto and McCabe, these 2 are a question mark as to what Bots will do. But it's clear defense will need to be addressed. Imo
 

HaNotsri

Regstred User
Dec 29, 2013
8,158
6,013
No, Murray isn't solely to blame, but he bares a good portion of the responsibility. Reiger does as well.

What's done is done and cannot be undone. Pegula made the right choice in Botterill, his philosophy of a strong farm system and pipeline combined with his experience as a cap savvy AGM makes him the right individual at the right time for the job.

Fixing this mess will take a plan, and that plan is to build around Jack Eichel. There will be no rush this time I suspect. I fully expect ROR, Okposo and Kane to be moved, each for assets that adhere to the plan.
As for Risto and McCabe, these 2 are a question mark as to what Bots will do. But it's clear defense will need to be addressed. Imo
How are we getting assets for Okposo? By sellings his brain to some researcher?
 

Ralonzo

Я хочу!
Nov 6, 2006
15,963
7,018
Virginia
I’d rather have McNabb, Zadorov, and Pysyk on this team.
Compher as well, and the two first rounders from the Kane/Lehner deals being Roslovic and Colin White, although others were available (Konecny)

The system depth would actually be pretty decent
 

pigpen65

Registered User
Jul 25, 2011
3,941
917
Complete and utter nonsense. There is only one person who is responsible for the Sabres' failure to build a winning organization and his name is Terry Pegula.

In the sense that he's the one who hired somebody completely incompetent to build this roster for him, 100% correct. But that's really going out of your way to let the incompetent person off the hook.
 

Sabre Dance

Make Hockey Fun Again
Jul 27, 2006
12,456
2,242
Maybe there was just too much pressure on the players to win right now. Fans and media deserve some blame as well, but the architect was Terry Pegula. He wanted to win now, not later. He definitely pushed for moves to be made.

Murray made mistakes, but everyone deserves some blame. We thought this was going to be easy.
 

Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
17,695
14,102
Cair Paravel
Murray moves I am ok with or can live with:

Fasching trade. Still and incomplete deal, and was a gamble on lesser prospects to get a legit power forward, something the Sabres needed.
O'Reilly trade. Eichel needed protection, Grigorenko was never going to be good, and the price wasn't bad.
Kulikov trade. The trade was a gamble based on the expansion draft rules. And Asplund is a great prospect.

Murray moves I am not ok with:

Drafting Nylander over Sergachev or McAvoy. He passed on potential franchise defensemen for a winger.
Kane/Bogosian trade. Never liked it.
Lehner trade. Not many goalies are worth that trade. There were stopgap goalies, and better, available in free agency or via a smaller trade.
 

AustonsNostrils

Registered User
Apr 5, 2016
7,409
2,533
Compher as well, and the two first rounders from the Kane/Lehner deals being Roslovic and Colin White, although others were available (Konecny)

The system depth would actually be pretty decent

uh ... Brock Boeser. Calder winner.
 

Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
17,695
14,102
Cair Paravel
uh ... Brock Boeser. Calder winner.

I was teetering on if I re-hashed what the team looks like if the moves I didn't like didn't go through... but your post tipped me.

2015:
ROR trade includes Lemieux instead of Compher.
21st overall: Colin White. As much as Boeser is tearing it up, White would've been the pick
25th overall: Jacob Larsson.
Stafford is moved independently for a mid-round pick.

2016: select McAvoy over Nylander.

Sabres:

Girgensons - Eichel - Pominville
Pouliot - ROR - Okposo
Compher - Reinhart - White
Larsson - Josefson - Armia

Scandella - Ristolainen
McCabe - McAvoy
Antipin - Myers
x Gorges

Larsson (D) in Rochester.

Lots and lots of speculation in this...... plenty of course re-directs could've happened.
 

SundherDome

Y'all have to much power
Jul 6, 2009
14,512
6,730
Minneapolis,MN
Ffs. He didn't ruin this team. He had a vision for the team and did what he had to do to accomplish it. This hindsight bickering isn't going to do anything, for all we know we could have drafted Boeser, Sergachev etc and they could all be borderline busts because we can't develop. Just Let This Go, he didn't ruin this team.
 
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Rasmus CacOlainen

The end of the Tank
Sep 24, 2015
7,227
1,139
Europe
Ffs. He didn't ruin this team. He had a vision for the team and did what he had to do to accomplish it. This hindsight bickering isn't going to do anything, for all we know we could have drafted Boeser, Sergachev etc and they could all be borderline busts because we can't develop. Just Let This Go, he didn't ruin this team.
Wrong
 
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haseoke39

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
13,938
2,491
I'll be interested in reviewing the ROR deal in 2020, too. That was a brilliant trade for a different team. Not sure whether we'll be better off for it based on our team and timeline.
 
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