Did the USA performance vindicate the selection process?

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by CapsWolverinesUSA, Jan 5, 2007.

  1. CapsWolverinesUSA

    CapsWolverinesUSA Registered User

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    There was a lot of rightful criticism when the USA roster was announced. Some big names were left off. Some returning players were left off. Some people nobody even considered got included.

    Now that the USA has gotten 3rd in this tournament and was a shootout loss away from playing for gold, is the USA Hockey selection committee vindicated?

    I don't mean this to be a rhetorical question at all. I think you could reasonably argue that if the US had included 1 or 2 more goal scorers instead of packing the team with two-way players, that they could have found a way to beat Germany and avoid the #3 seed, and also beaten Canada in the semis. On the other hand, the team played some serious shutdown hockey when it needed to, and those great team defensive efforts got them to the bronze medal.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. MentalPowerHouse

    MentalPowerHouse Registered User

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    They didn't win gold so I can't agree.
     
  3. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

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    They didn't *lose* either.

    They just got shafted by a glorified coin toss.
     
  4. MXD

    MXD I'll sue their ass off.

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    I agree with everyone that said USA didn't really lost against Canada.

    And looking at the Final we have (after the 1st period)... The game was much better and even in the Semis.
     
  5. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    I think this was a very good team that wouldn't have been much better with the addition of a player or two. I still think Ryan, Sauer, and Sanguinetti should have had a place on this team, but I can't argue with the contributions of guys like Zimmerman, Lawson, and Abdelkader either.
     
  6. Psycho Papa Joe

    Psycho Papa Joe Porkchop Hoser

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    Who knows, with those guys, they might beat Canada.
     
  7. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    Maybe. That was as close a game as there could be. A few more guns on the PP might have helped.
     
  8. Quiet Robert

    Quiet Robert Registered User

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    I didn't follow the USA selection too closely, but I still don't understand excluding some of the CHL guys. Was it chemistry, or did they just not perform well in camps?

    I don't think anyone can say they were a better team without Bobby Ryan, surely a player of his caliber could find a spot on the team? From a Canadian pov, and while I don't follow the OHL that closely, I still can't see why a player of Ryan's caliber can justifiably be left off. Of course Zimmerman and co. did perform pretty well, but they just aren't in the same class as Ryan imo.

    I don't know if it would have necessarily led to the US winning gold, but still, it's interesting to see who they left off. They still bounced back well though, and ended up having a good tourney, considering how poorly their start was.
     
  9. therealdeal

    therealdeal Registered User

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    To the same extent, you could also say they could have been beaten a lot worse.
     
  10. nomorekids

    nomorekids The original, baby

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    exactly. no one allows for that possibility.

    i'm happy with this year's team and its performance. i honestly think that, regardless of how it turned out, that they were easily the second best team in the tournament, and i look forward to next year. i think the coaching situation has finally worked itself out.
     
  11. therealdeal

    therealdeal Registered User

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    I think this year you can't really argue either way that it would have gone better/worse. The selection process technically paid off, but technically it didn't pay off (no gold).
     
  12. Psycho Papa Joe

    Psycho Papa Joe Porkchop Hoser

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    I have a hard time believing a team would be worse off with Ryan. Hell, I would have gladly taken him on Team Canada.

    But that said, they still lost, so losing by more doesn't really enter into the equation.
     
  13. Blind Gardien

    Blind Gardien nexus of the crisis

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    Well, the USA were in a lot of close games, including the early round robin ones, that might have come out slightly differently if they had better players. Maybe they would have had an easier schedule with some early wins, maybe they could have edged Canada in the nail-biter, etc. But then again, as others have said, maybe with shakier chemistry they would just never have pulled out of the early funk and played up to their potential to medal. Who knows. We'll never know.
     
  14. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    And maybe without those guys, it doesn't get to the shootout because the team would have been terrible backchecking without such defensive minded players. Especially when you know your big guns won't play defense.
     
  15. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers White guilt milquetoast piece of human garbage. Sponsor

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    What are you talking about? You'd still have a decent checking line out there. Ryan would've only required one forward to be left off.

    Sanguinetti 1 defenseman and Sauer another.

    Sauer would've been the KEY shutdown guy along with Erik Johnson (actually, those two as a pairing would've been amazing).

    Pair Sanguinetti with a defensive minded guy and you have the "Brian Leetch" of the team who would allow Jack Johnson to calm down and not do everything himself.

    ---------

    This tournament proves, once and for all, that the selection process is completely ******ed.
     
  16. canucksfan

    canucksfan Registered User

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    What the Americans need is a selection camp. It helps build team chemistry. Players that are on the bubble and play poorly you can cut. If the USA would hae came together earlier as a team they might have finished first in their Group A.
     
  17. Blind Gardien

    Blind Gardien nexus of the crisis

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    Good call. Then at least you have some justification for cutting or keeping the ones on the edge. On the other hand, if Canada had lost by not scoring enough goals (if if if) we would have had some outcries about Giroux being cut, etc. Even with the camp. :dunno:
     
  18. DaveG

    DaveG Global Moderator

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    bingo. The problem with the US team isn't so much the players selected as it was the process itself... hell as a Canes fan I was simply happy that Lawson was selected and was beyond thrilled with his performance. Most everyone on the boards was asking why he made it before the tourny.

    Back on topic, without a pre-tourny camp late bloomers have a next to impossible time of making the team and it takes a few games to develop the kind of chemistry this years squad had, if they even develop it.
     
  19. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers White guilt milquetoast piece of human garbage. Sponsor

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    That's what most of us have already been saying (not really much in this thread but overall).
     
  20. William H Bonney

    William H Bonney Registered User

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    I agree with the sentiment that the US needs a selection camp, ala Canada. I think that's what sets Canada apart nearly every year...Their selection/team building process, and the best coaching usually in the tournament.

    However, to me, second guessing if certain players like Bobby Ryan would have helped, I think is farther down the line.

    IMO, the more realistic "second guess" would be if Frazee played the first two games...
     
  21. There is somewhat of a selection camp, the only problem is it's in August, and you should evaluate players based on how they play around tourney time.
     
  22. Frenzy31

    Frenzy31 Registered User

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    The big difference between the US and Canada is that most US players play in College and most Canadians play in the CHL. It would be very difficult to have a camp in December, just due to the logistics (final exams, etc...). The college season is so much shorter and the games have more weight that pulling 3-4 guys off a team for a month would cause a fair number of losses.

    I agree that it should be done, but I don't know that it is possible.
     
  23. Rounder

    Rounder Registered User

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    Somewhat is a good description since your top 2 defenseman did not even attend, in fact one of them blew off two years in a row. I was in Lake Placid and watched most games, the team was not chosen based on their play at the camp, at least not if the staff saw the same production I did.
     
  24. CapsWolverinesUSA

    CapsWolverinesUSA Registered User

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    It would definitely require a bit of cooperation from the NCAA, or at least the big 3 leagues and their member schools. The CCHA already ends its conference schedule at the right time for kids to make the selection camp. Cogliano missed no Michigan games last year, and only missed 1 game this year because it got pushed back a day at the last minute at ESPNU's request. The WCHA played an extra week, so Toews missed NoDak's games against Michigan Tech (who somewhat shockingly pulled off a road sweep, exploiting Toews absence). Hockey East doesn't run conference games, but some teams scheduled non-conference games for that 12/15-12/16 weekend. The BC kids (Bertram) missed no games.

    The exam issue is still there, but if the Canadian kids can manage to stay eligible grade-wise and make the selection camp, I'm confident USA Hockey can figure it out too.
     
  25. deandebean

    deandebean Registered User

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    A camp is a must.

    As for Ryan, I saw him play the other night and I don't believe he would have been a difference maker. He was not very impressive.

    Team USA impressed me for the first time in a long time. It impressed because it FINALLY showed some defensive awareness. We all know that the US program develops some highly skilled individuals. But this team was different in its own zone. It finally learned to play WITHOUT the puck. I believe your program has grown leaps and bounds with this performance.

    The US program is now second behind that of Hockey Canada. Your program has distanced itself from the russian and finnish programs. And by a mile.
     

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