Did the future defense just become the strength of To. ?

[darrylsittler27]

Just wanted to get this started. Did our future defense just become our strength ? Our defense is neither old nor expensive. With Reilly, Gardiner, Zaitsev and now Dermott we have the shapings of a very good top 4. We recently found Borgman and were pleased to the point that he could push one out such as Zaitsev as soon as next year. On the farm many can see Liljegren making our top 4 within 2 to 3 years, to me a steal at 17th overall. I also like Hunter's taking of Rasanen in the 2nd round and see him as a good darkhorse project. Is it me or are we future stacked and who else might creep in?

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[LeafChief]

It's rounding out nicely but it isn't high end.

 

[Mess]

Lou Lam would love to go big game hunting to add that elite top 4 guy is possible. IMO

OEL will be the talk of the summer at the draft.

 

[Cor]

Gordeev has scouts buzzing this year as well.

James Greenway has many of us here talking about him in the rookie camp as well, though I can’t say I’ve watched him at all since.

There’s ‘potential’ for sure. However it’s more for a consistent flow of cheap third pairing guys.

If the Leafs can acquire a top pairing d-man, they still should.

 

[highslot]

we are currently lacking in size and grit. if rasanen turns out and liljegren is our true #1, then we will have among the best imo.

maybe

rielly-lilj
dermott-zaitsev
borgman-rasanen

 

[darrylsittler27]

Reilly Lily
Gardiner Dermott
Zaitsev Borgman
Rasanen (?)

I'd say that depends on how Lily develops. You are looking for one guy tops. Toronto has told Liljegren to work on his defense, his offense will emerge later. I think he is top 2 material and compare him to Reilly. Does Zaitsev <--- Borgman, get pushed out? He could be nice trade bait if we eat $1M/yr. off his contract. Reilly and Liljegren skating at teams all night, not to mention Gardiner, would keep teams on their heals the whole game. I can't recall the team that had 2 elite skaters like that on defense.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I see a lot of eggs but not many chickens yet.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Not sure I follow ? Reilly hatched top 2. Dermott hatched top 4. Gardiner no longer an egg, top 4. Zaitsev hatched but contract smelly. Borgman hatched top 6. Lily incubating well, no cracks in the shell. Rasanen, well a potential black swan.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Dermott will be our best D man soon

 

[Spirit of 67]

Not sure I follow ? Reilly hatched top 2. Dermott hatched top 4. Gardiner no longer an egg, top 4. Zaitsev hatched but contract smelly. Borgman hatched top 6. Lily incubating well, no cracks in the shell. Rasanen, well a potential black swan.

I think Borgman is still a bit of a project. Zaitsev may still be. Is he the guy from the first 2/3 of last season or the guy the first 2/3 or this season?
So Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott. The rest are all questions to one degree or another.

 

[hotpaws]

I think Borgman is still a bit of a project. Zaitsev may still be. Is he the guy from the first 2/3 of last season or the guy the first 2/3 or this season?
So Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott. The rest are all questions to one degree or another.

yup and even Gardiner is a ? going forward

basically there's only TL with high end up side and the rest are prospects everyone has , i've seen Rasenen play and he has potential but he's years away and that's if he ever makes it

 

[Spirit of 67]

yup and even Gardiner is a ? going forward

basically there's only TL with high end up side and the rest are prospects everyone has , i've seen Rasenen play and he has potential but he's years away and that's if he ever makes it

Agreed.
TBH, I like Gordeev better than Rasanen. But there's so much runway between now and when they make their NHL debuts (should they ever) that it can change.

 

[rent free]

wingers is our strength for sure, then goalies, but dman isn't that bad. its pretty good, not amazing, but not awful either

 

[thewave]

From what I can tell, Lilj will be good. Dermott is good for his age. Holl looks like a good #6 if need be.

The D looks pretty good but I may watch Zaitsev a little more closely to see progress or decline.

 

[darrylsittler27]

The scouts are buzzing over Gordeev ? Which scouts ? Why ? What are they saying ? It is obvious Hunter uses later picks to get those big, tough 5-6-7 Dmen. I like Rasanen is Gordeev better? I think Zaitsev is going to be the odd man out. At $4.5 M/yr. , I would take Borgman next year. If we eat $1M, Zaitsev might fetch a late first rounder.

Next year: Reilly - (UFA)
Gardiner - Dermott
Borgman - Hainsey
Carrick - Rosen

 

[zeke]

Like I said at the start of the year, the Leafs have one of the more talented and deepest defense corps in the league.

 

[LeafFever]

I look at the Marlies D and smile. We are in excellent shape. That D is not getting talked about ebough.

 

[613Leafer]

Good solid depth, and some current and potential upper top 4 talent.

But obviously the lack of an elite #1D is still there. Aside from Pittsburgh, no team has won the Cup without a Norris calibre defenseman in over 10 years (Carolina).

Keith X3, Doughty X2, Chara, Lidstrom, and Pronger/Niedermayer have anchored the bluelines for 8/11 of the most recent winners. Pittsburgh is an anomaly there, but they have Crosby/Malkin which no one else can match down the middle.

 

[White Shadow]

The depth is growing but we currently have no all stars on defense with none on the horizon.

 

[Mess]

The Maple Leafs are 30th in the league in shots against with only the NYI giving up more.

Leafs present Dcore is a direct result of that factor and if it wasn't for Andersen's outstanding play while facing the most shots the underlying results would be much worse than they are.. Freddy is masking the constant mistakes the Dcore that plays in front of him, making it appear better than it is.

Leafs are moving in the right direction but the defensive mistakes and blunders are still far too prevalent.

 

[613Leafer]

The depth is growing but we currently have no all stars on defense with none on the horizon.

I think Dermott and Liljegren both might have the tools. Doesn't mean I think they will get to that level, and they're clearly not the can't miss all-star young D we've seen with a young Doughty. But there's an outside chance of it happening with one of them.

Most elite defensemen took years to develop and weren't top picks. Chara, Keith, Subban, Karlsson, Josi, Weber, etc. When they were ~18-21, they weren't generally looked on as locks to contend for the Norris one day.

 

[White Shadow]

I think Dermott and Liljegren both might have the tools. Doesn't mean I think they will get to that level, and they're clearly not the can't miss all-star young D we've seen with a young Doughty. But there's an outside chance of it happening with one of them.

Most elite defensemen took years to develop and weren't top picks. Chara, Keith, Subban, Karlsson, Josi, Weber, etc. When they were ~18-21, they weren't generally looked on as locks to contend for the Norris one day.

Exactly, nothing on the horizon but optimism.

 

[Spirit of 67]

yup and even Gardiner is a ? going forward

basically there's only TL with high end up side and the rest are prospects everyone has , i've seen Rasenen play and he has potential but he's years away and that's if he ever makes it

And TL isn't even playing full time in the A yet.

 

[Polaris1010]

The Maple Leafs are 30th in the league in shots against with only the NYI giving up more.

Leafs present Dcore is a direct result of that factor and if it wasn't for Andersen's outstanding play while facing the most shots the underlying results would be much worse than they are.. Freddy is masking the constant mistakes the Dcore that plays in front of him, making it appear better than it is.

Leafs are moving in the right direction but the defensive mistakes and blunders are still far too prevalent.

I never believed that in the past, and never will.

Shots on goal or against, are really dependent on the forwards.

In any hockey game, both teams will get at least 20 shots on goal. Usually 10 shots on goal a period was the rule of thumb.

If a team let 20 shots on goal in a period or 50 in a game, the whole team was not doing well.

Shots on goals not same as chances. The recent Columbus game in Toronto was a good example of that.

Columbus shot the puck every chance they got from anywhere on the ice. Anywhere on the ice the puck is directed towards the net. How can we fault the defenseman for that point shot or bad angle shot?

That is the job of the forward.

My opinion is not how bad the Leafs defense is, but how truly bad some of the forwards are at defense on the team. To play defensively as a forward, you do it every single shift, not half the time, or often with these Leafs, sometimes not at all.

 

[Polaris1010]

The Leafs best three defensemen at the moment are Reilly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, and we can put that in any order we want.

Borgman and Dermott have shown enough to make us believe that they will be top 4 material in the coming years.

In the meantime, unless the Leafs are willing to give up a lot, no other top 4 defenseman is coming to this team.

Look at the Islanders. Trade Hamonic (for a very steep price), get an injury, and they instantly become one of the worst defensive teams in the league, when they were a rather good defensive team the past few years. It can unravel quickly, as we should know as Leafs fans.