GDT: Devils vs. Panthers - 7:30 PM MSG+

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
128,935
55,940
L-o-effing-l at the people who prefer Kinkaid to Schneider
Anybody that prefers KK over Cory is either trolling, or they suffer from short term memory loss.
I think it's okay to say ''Yeah, I prefer Keith to Cory during a particular stretch of games where one is hot and the other isn't'', but as far as who is better overall? It's still Cory.

Remember, Keith delivered a lot of stinkers before his recent hot streak.
 

NjDevsRR

Anything Can Happen In Jersey
Sponsor
Apr 24, 2012
28,174
55,708
Belmar
Even at Blockaid's worst I like him more than Corey. It is unfortunate to have to be the first goalie to follow Brodeur. HF main and other naysayers can argue, but Broduer is GOAT. His abilities changed the game. Watching the Devils transition to Schneider was brutal. Still to this day the Devils' Defense seems to struggle with Schneider in net because of his shortcomings and he struggles with soft goals. This guy can't buy a shutout. "Worst" goalies have more shutouts yearly. Plus, in my opinion there is a difference between keeping a team in a game and stealing a game. Corey might come up with a big save or two after he let in two goals to make it 3-3, rarer are the games were it's definitely the teams fault and he gets the W.

Congrats to Hall. Happy to see Bratt score, Maroon with 2 pts. This team is painfully streaky. Just Win in Carolina...
If one thinks Schneider is awful then one must think Kinkaid is a steaming pile of dogshit...just going by simple logic and basic stats.

You are illogical to think otherwise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bleedred

Cage Helmet

Thank you Marty!
May 27, 2012
1,696
668
Even at Blockaid's worst I like him more than Corey. It is unfortunate to have to be the first goalie to follow Brodeur. HF main and other naysayers can argue, but Broduer is GOAT. His abilities changed the game. Watching the Devils transition to Schneider was brutal. Still to this day the Devils' Defense seems to struggle with Schneider in net because of his shortcomings and he struggles with soft goals. This guy can't buy a shutout. "Worst" goalies have more shutouts yearly. Plus, in my opinion there is a difference between keeping a team in a game and stealing a game. Corey might come up with a big save or two after he let in two goals to make it 3-3, rarer are the games were it's definitely the teams fault and he gets the W.

Congrats to Hall. Happy to see Bratt score, Maroon with 2 pts. This team is painfully streaky. Just Win in Carolina...
I agree with you on Marty, but disagree on Cory and the defense struggling due to his shortcomings. Schneider was a fantastic goalie his first few seasons here. He could have won the Vezina in 14-15 and 15-16, if those teams were as good as this one. It wasn’t a brutal transition. Of course he’s a much different goaltender than Marty, but that’s goaltending in 2018. That’s how it is in the new millennium NHL. The Marty-like tenders have gone the way of the dodo and quite frankly they’re not effective in the modern game. Only Jonathan Quick has that element and is effective while doing it. The 1993-2010 Brodeur would have been effective in today’s game, but that’s because he’s the GOAT. We’re living in a butterfly goalie world and that’s likely to be the case for the next couple of decades.
 

Cage Helmet

Thank you Marty!
May 27, 2012
1,696
668
Kinkaid played like an AHL goaltender for the better part of the season. He was very good the last half dozen starts, but has had quite a few poor games and stretches this year.
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
129,830
75,221
New Jersey, Exit 16E
The quality of our D and our playstyle most likely factor in to Cory’s struggle last year and this.

Team tried to open up a lot, and they are not good enough defensively to make up for it most nights. Cory’s strength is his positioning, but he needs the D to cut off other options.

We did that well in Cory’s first few years, but things are a lot more Helter Skelter in our own zone the past two

I don’t think we are an easy team to play behind.
 

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
128,935
55,940
We never win down there.
I think we have one win there since the 2012 playoffs. It was their opening night in 2014, when Severson scored his first goal and Luongo coughed up a bunch of point shot goals and we were up 5-0 early in the 2nd period and he got yanked.
 

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
67,115
31,150
I think we have one win there since the 2012 playoffs. It was their opening night in 2014, when Severson scored his first goal and Luongo coughed up a bunch of point shot goals and we were up 5-0 early in the 2nd period and he got yanked.

I almost forgot, at least we can't blame tonight on our other convenient scapegoat cause you didn't go this time ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bleedred

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
128,935
55,940
I think it's pretty hard to say that X goalie would have played better than Y goalie on any given night. There's a chance Kinkaid plays tonight and only allows one goal and we lose in a shootout (assuming the Bratt goal doesn't happen because it's 1-1 and we don't pull the goalie).

But Kinkaid also could have played tonight and we could have lost 5-1. It's just like in Tampa when people were saying ''Well Kinkaid probably allows 5 goals tonight'' in the game where Lack only allowed 3 goals on 51 shots, but Kinkaid may have allowed 6 goals in that game or he may have allowed 2 goals in that game.

Single games really can't be analyzed, but over a significant stretch, Cory is the better goaltender than Keith. Even if Keith was better the last two weeks, even if Keith was better last year (I don't think he would have been if he played 50+ games). There's a reason that Kinkaid isn't an NHL starter and this year and 15-16 are your proof.
 

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
128,935
55,940
I almost forgot, we can't blame tonight on our convenient scapegoat cause you didn't go this time ;)
NOPE!

Didn't go, I told you guys after we lost there in November of last year, that I'm throwing the towel in on this trip. It's too long of a drive. 4+ hours for me, 4+ hours for @Cage Helmet (who usually rides down on his bike) down I-95, which can get very congested between where he lives in Jacksonville and Sunrise. It's a hassle to find an open gas station to use the restroom in the AM hours. These would be minor inconveniences if we actually won some games down there. We played there twice last year, in the first several weeks of the season (wasn't our opener in the regular season there?) and we lost both. I vowed to cut the trip out.

Then when I saw the schedule and saw it was on a Thursday night and we didn't play both Florida teams on the same trip, I definitely was like ''To hell with this!''.
 

BurntToast

Registered User
May 27, 2007
3,357
2,630
Saratoga, New York
Kinkaid has been terrible at times but when he does well, I like him better. My own opinion. The team seems to play better with him. Right Now, minus the Hockey spread Schneider is 17-18. Kinkaid 15-10. He started off well with the Devils but the last two seasons have been crappy. Kinkaid beat him statistically last year. Devils got a new coach and while he has done better statistically he should be better because the team is better. As a starter hi is 50/50, Meh mundane, boring, so so, ok, fine. 3 shutouts in two years. He is 30 something in GAA, all most 30 something in SV%. 1 Shutout..Maybe we have two great backups.
 

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
128,935
55,940
Cory is 0 for his last 8. That is ****ing ridiculous.
The biggest cause for concern is that he's allowed 3+ goals in all of these games.

If he lost 8 in a row while allowing 1-2 goals in 5 or 6 of those 8 games, it wouldn't be as much cause for concern.

The wins/losses from a goalie mean nothing to me without context behind it. If they did, Nabokov wins the 2008 Vezina over a far superior goaltender, who had 2 fewer wins than him in one fewer start.

That's not defending Cory at all, just saying the problem is that he's let in 3 or more goals in 8 straight starts, not that he's lost them. Too much credence is put into a goalies win/loss record around here by many of you. Almost to the point where a goalie losing a game 2-1 or 1-0 is automatically worse on him than winning a game 4-3 or 5-4.
 

blood gin

Registered User
Jan 17, 2017
4,174
2,203
Cory has shown how good he can be, his save % between 2013 and 2016 were .921, .925, and .924. He was outstanding. The team was terrible, he got ZERO support from the offense but he constantly held us in games. It was a thankless job.

Last year and so far this year I believe have been plagued by injuries. Last year I'm certain that hip was barking all year (and we iced a miserable team) and was bothering him this year when he also sustained a groin injury. I'm giving him a pass for his recent play but now he's back, now he's healthy, now the team is better and ready to take off.

He absolutely must return to old form and start being a .920+ goalie again. Because if he's not and he can't and he's legitimately declining then he doesn't have a place on this team going forward as its undisputed #1 starter. We can't be paying him the salary that he earns for this kind of performance. This team is ready to take off and we need to know soon if we can roll with Cory confidently into the future or if we need to start looking for a goalie asap. These next 18 games will be telling.
 

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
128,935
55,940
Kinkaid has been terrible at times but when he does well, I like him better. My own opinion. The team seems to play better with him. Right Now, minus the Hockey spread Schneider is 17-18. Kinkaid 15-10. He started off well with the Devils but the last two seasons have been crappy. Kinkaid beat him statistically last year. Devils got a new coach and while he has done better statistically he should be better because the team is better. As a starter hi is 50/50, Meh mundane, boring, so so, ok, fine. 3 shutouts in two years. He is 30 something in GAA, all most 30 something in SV%. 1 Shutout..Maybe we have two great backups.
Kinkaid did better than Cory statistically last year because he only played 25 games and Cory played like close to 60? I don't think Kinkaid is a .916 goaltender playing 50+ games last year, I just don't. Stranger freak occurrences have happened, but the smart money seems to make me think that he wouldn't have.

In fact, I remember Kinkaid had a .920 at one point, before they started playing him A LOT more and his reliability seemed to diminish with a lot more starts.

Cory's drop in play didn't coincide with us getting a new coach. The Cory from 15-16 (Hynes first season as head coach) is a legit Vezina candidate or possibly even winner on the current team.
 

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
128,935
55,940
Cory has shown how good he can be, his save % between 2013 and 2016 were .921, .925, and .924. He was outstanding. The team was terrible, he got ZERO support from the offense but he constantly held us in games. It was a thankless job.

Last year and so far this year I believe have been plagued by injuries. Last year I'm certain that hip was barking all year (and we iced a miserable team) and was bothering him this year when he also sustained a groin injury. I'm giving him a pass for his recent play but now he's back, now he's healthy, now the team is better and ready to take off.

He absolutely must return to old form and start being a .920+ goalie again. Because if he's not and he can't and he's legitimately declining then he doesn't have a place on this team going forward as its undisputed #1 starter. We can't be paying him the salary that he earns for this kind of performance. This team is ready to take off and we need to know soon if we can roll with Cory confidently into the future or if we need to start looking for a goalie asap. These next 18 games will be telling.
I don't think he necessarily has to be a .920 goaltender anymore, but I'd like a .915-.916 out of him, rather than this .908 or .913 or somewhere in between that. .910 over the last 96 starts and if we cut out October of 2016 where he was pretty damn good, it's probably like .905-.907 over the last 85-86 games.

Cory not being what he once was is just another reason that Kinkaid might have to be a victim of a numbers game, where we upgrade to a better backup, who can give us 25-30 games of average goaltending. And I think management might be seeing the same things here. They were quick to jump on Melanson and fire Terreri after Cory had just one off-year last season.

If god forbid we miss the playoffs (we're GOOD right now, but also not a lock), goaltending will be one of the first things to look at. Looking at our shooting percentage and save percentage, the shooting percentage is slightly above average, the save percentage is slightly below average. Believe it or not we're about league average or slightly below league in shots against. We're not a terrible team in shots against. Cory is still the best goalie on this team and has the best save percentage, outside of Ken Appleby and his 1 start and 3 games played.
 

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
128,935
55,940
The problem with the ''Cory LOSES!'' crowd is that if Cory had lost 6 or 8 games in a row while having a GAA of 2 (and I wouldn't be surprised if he has lost 6 games in a row while allowing 2 goals on average at some point in 14-15 and 15-16), they'd still be crucifying him for his losses.

The losses aren't as relevant right now as the amount of goals that he's been allowing, which I think is fair to point to as to why he's lost 8 in a row, but wins/losses are way too overstated around here. The problem with Cory is that he hasn't allowed fewer than 3 goals in 8 games now, and that would still be a problem even if he won 2 or 3 of these games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NJDevs26

JimEIV

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
65,688
27,889
The biggest cause for concern is that he's allowed 3+ goals in all of these games.

If he lost 8 in a row while allowing 1-2 goals in 5 or 6 of those 8 games, it wouldn't be as much cause for concern.

The wins/losses from a goalie mean nothing to me without context behind it. If they did, Nabokov wins the 2008 Vezina over a far superior goaltender, who had 2 fewer wins than him in one fewer start.

That's not defending Cory at all, just saying the problem is that he's let in 3 or more goals in 8 straight starts, not that he's lost them. Too much credence is put into a goalies win/loss record around here by many of you. Almost to the point where a goalie losing a game 2-1 or 1-0 is automatically worse on him than winning a game 4-3 or 5-4.


The idea that Wins and Losses don't mean much works if you believe those particular stats are team stats and goalies have little influence on the outcome. And I would tend to agree.

But it's hard to ignore that we have one goalie that's winning 60% of his starts and another that is winning 47% of his.
 

BurntToast

Registered User
May 27, 2007
3,357
2,630
Saratoga, New York
I am not trying to troll. Corey was overall a better goalie then Broduer in Broduer's last season, but the team had trouble adapting to his puck/stick handling. Plus, he has never been very mobile. His early stats are inflated due to shot volume. I would take him over many other starting goalies. But he has had some pretty ugly games the past two years. I remember hating how Broduer late in his career gave up (soft) half wall goals. It happen in the playoffs against Carolina twice in one game. I feel Corey is week against the point shot and lets goals through him too often particularly from the waist up. I never feel like he "steals" a win. Maybe he is on the decline or dealing with injuries. I wish him the best, hope he poops all over my ideas of him.
 

MadDevil

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 10, 2007
33,581
23,061
Bismarck, ND
The idea that Wins and Losses don't mean much works if you believe those particular stats are team stats and goalies have little influence on the outcome. And I would tend to agree.

But it's hard to ignore that we have one goalie that's winning 60% of his starts and another that is winning 47% of his.

So do you think we should be playing Kinkaid more?
 

haak84

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
4,137
2,305
Anybody that prefers KK over Cory is either trolling, or they suffer from short term memory loss.

Actually its the other way around.

Since December 15th:

Keith Kinkaid
2.69 GAA
10-5-1
.908 save %

Corey Schneider
3.10 GAA
5-6-2
.897 save %

But everyone continue on with the same narrative.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MartyOwns

haak84

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
4,137
2,305
Like how you cherry picked the games where Cory was playing hurt and sick.

i'm just posting facts. especially in response to 'short term memory loss'. one goalie is 5-1 in their last 6 and the other hasn't won a game. you can talk about how he was sick or his feelings were hurt or whatever. i dont care. he hasnt been sick for two seasons. and his play has not been great overall.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->