GDT: Devils vs. Jets - 7:00 PM MSG+

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NJDevils17

Going Up?
Apr 21, 2013
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Severson had a bad giveaway but if that’s how you’re judging his game last night....I don’t know what to tell you. You’d f***ing hate Doughty and Karlsson and Burns.
 

Camille the Eel

Registered User
When you watch the next game, the defensemen follow the attacking forward back to the blue line if the attacking forward retreats. The forward is supposed to cover down low, but they always seem too get back too late. It's a strategy that drives me crazy. They've given up so many goals this way
That's to say it's a coaching issue as well as a player issue. Maybe we needed to go more to a modified zone system some time earlier this year, where the point was "somebody in front of the net to help the goalie all the time." "Always." A coaches job is to design a system that maximizes the personnel. If our D men can't play Hynes' system, the system should have changed.
 

Spoiled Bratt

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Jun 29, 2016
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If you truly post "Severson blows" and believe it and aren't trolling, you...need to re-evaluate things.

Again, the reply wasn't just for one poster. It's for all the Severson lovers on this board. Is he a offensive d-man? a defensive d-man? a PP specialist? a defensive specialist?

I've seen the same type of "love" when we had Adam Larsson and I was adamant he wasn't anything special and got ripped for it on a daily basis but I didn't care cause I know my shit and it's pretty ironic that some are singing the same song with Severson.
 

Spoiled Bratt

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Jun 29, 2016
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Severson had a bad giveaway but if that’s how you’re judging his game last night....I don’t know what to tell you. You’d ****ing hate Doughty and Karlsson and Burns.

Doughty, Karlsson and Burns aren't defensive stalwarts (in your example) but they contribute offensively and that's why people don't care as much.

Severson has 10 f***ing assists in 65 games, so please, don't put Damon in the same group as those 3 studs cause you're comparing a nickel to a gold bar.
 

Spoiled Bratt

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Jun 29, 2016
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lol no thanks. Not worth the time of day if you actually believe "he blows". Remember when you were trying to say you valued him the other day? Remember when you wanted to deal him for OEL? That doesn't make sense.

LOL... of course it's not worth your time cause you have nothing to lean on.

I've said numerous times, the kid has upside, we can all agree on that point. Is he a liability, absolutely. Is he a offensive dynamo, absolutely not.

So what does he do that's so indispensable to our team is my question to you. If you're going to say "we can't move him cause his upside if out of this world and we'll regret it down the road", I can somewhat agree with you but upside has to turn into something concrete eventually cause he's been in the league for a while now and I think he's actually regressed or stalled in terms of development.

If we were to move Severson for someone like OEL (example), we're adding our 2018 1st round pick and most probably Zacha or McLeod. That's a package of futures and for any rebuilding team, seems like a pretty solid package. The team acquiring that type of package will be banking on potential and potential only cause there's not one player in that package that reached their ceiling yet.
 

SteveCangialosi123

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Feb 17, 2012
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You never answer the questions that are thrown at you.

If you're so adamant he's this great player, it should be easy to answer very simple questions, no? The fact that you're dodging the question leads me to believe you have nothing to counter my questions.

So yeah, have a good day my friend ;)
ZSCGiFr.png
 
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Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
Nov 6, 2005
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there is absolutely 0% chance that I (or Shero) would trade Severson, our 1st round pick, AND Zacha or McLeod for OEL

none.
 

Spoiled Bratt

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Jun 29, 2016
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Ah yes, the good ol' stat sheet or corsi bullshit scale.

If what you see isn't worth shit, let's bring out charts to justify someone's play. He'll be perfect in Phoenix were advanced stats are leading the way.

Let's not take into consideration that OEL played with a broken thumb last year or that his mom passed away and really affected his game. Is there a chart for human feelings and broken bones?

Advanced stats has to be the worst thing in sports cause if they were that good, Phoenix wouldn't be at the bottom of the standings.
 

SteveCangialosi123

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Feb 17, 2012
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Ah yes, the good ol' stat sheet or corsi bull**** scale.

If what you see isn't worth ****, let's bring out charts to justify someone's play. He'll be perfect in Phoenix were advanced stats are leading the way.

Let's not take into consideration that OEL played with a broken thumb last year or that his mom passed away and really affected his game. Is there a chart for human feelings and broken bones?

Advanced stats has to be the worst thing in sports cause if they were that good, Phoenix wouldn't be at the bottom of the standings.
If you think that is just “corsi bull***”, your ability to interpret statistics is even worse than your eye for the game. There is so much more than that on the page. When you’re presented with evidence that destroys your narrative, you question the validity of statistics. Have a good day!
 
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Spoiled Bratt

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Jun 29, 2016
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yikes

thats all I will say.

Severson and a 5th would get it done I assume.

It might be a lot, granted, but legit #1 blueliners aren't cheap and I'd rather give a lot to get a minute eating dman then keep questions marks to build our team forward and have Andy Greene on our top unit for another two years.

We have a stud in Hall, a 1st pairing d-men on the right side in Vatanen and a #1 center in Hischier. Moving Zacha or McLeod wouldn't hurt as much knowing we'd have Hischier, McLeod/Zacha, Zajac, Coleman down the middle for the next couple of years.

Our first is probably in the middle of the pack and we don't know what we're getting. Severson can be replaced by Santini even if they don't play the same type of game and instead of being our shutdown pair versus the oppositions top units, they'll be playing against 2nd and 3rd liners.

I do agree that not having a pick in the first 3 rounds this year would definitely hurt but bringing in someone like OEL, who's just 27, would bring way more then the kids we'd be giving away.

Would something like this be so horrible? Having someone like OEL play over 25 minutes a night would completely change our blueline and our PP.

Hall-Hischier-Bratt
Mojo-Zacha*-Palmieri
Wood-Zajac-Noesen
Quenneville-Coleman-Gibbons
Boyle

OEL-Vatanen
Greene-Santini
Mueller-Butcher
Lovejoy

Schneider

* If Zacha is moved over McLeod, Zajac slides in as our 2nd center and McLeod as our 3rd line center.
 

Spoiled Bratt

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Jun 29, 2016
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If you think that is just “corsi bull***”, your ability to interpret statistics is even worse than your eye for the game. There is so much more than that on the page. When you’re presented with evidence that destroys your narrative, you question the validity of statistics. Have a good day!

What I know is that Severson is defensive liability or else he wouldn't of gotten benched so many times and no, I don't really pay attention to those charts cause you can make numbers say whatever you want them to say.

I'll go with pts and bonehead mistakes that you see with your own eyes over charts any day of the week. Didn't we have a couple of ex turds that were stat freaks, yet had issues scoring pts every other 30 games or so?
 

GameSeven

ἢ τὰς ἢ ἐπὶ τὰς
Jan 11, 2008
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I'm not going to make the argument that Severson is a bad player, or even that OEL is necessarily better, but this graph does highlight that Severson is considerably more sheltered in terms of QoC and OZ starts. But the rest of Severson's metrics are encouraging.
 

SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
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What I know is that Severson is defensive liability or else he wouldn't of gotten benched so many times and no, I don't really pay attention to those charts cause you can make numbers say whatever you want them to say.

I'll go with pts and bonehead mistakes that you see with your own eyes over charts any day of the week. Didn't we have a couple of ex turds that were stat freaks, yet had issues scoring pts every other 30 games or so?
But that chart clearly indicates that he’s been more productive at 5 on 5 than OEL has over the last few year? It’s almost as if you’re completely disregarding reality to craft some BS narrative. Maybe sit the next few plays out.
 
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Spoiled Bratt

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But that chart clearly indicates that he’s been more productive at 5 on 5 than OEL has over the last few year? It’s almost as if you’re completely disregarding reality to craft some BS narrative. Maybe sit the next few plays out.

See post above yours as to why your chart is meaningless. If you forget to look at everything, then yeah, Severson looks to be on OEL's level... which he isn't.
 

SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
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NJ
I'm not going to make the argument that Severson is a bad player, or even that OEL is necessarily better, but this graph does highlight that Severson is considerably more sheltered in terms of QoC and OZ starts. But the rest of Severson's metrics are encouraging.
It does. OEL is better and plays tougher minutes. But, to suggest that Severson “blows” is so far removed from reality that it’s hard to believe someone could really say that seriously.
 

SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
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NJ
See post above yours as to why your chart is meaningless. If you forget to look at everything, then yeah, Severson looks to be on OEL's level... which he isn't.
Taylor Hall blows because he isn’t as good as Malkin. That’s essentially the argument you’re making.
 

Call Me Al

Registered User
Aug 28, 2017
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this team has a losing record when outshooting opponents so i literally could not care less about corsi
 

Spoiled Bratt

Registered User
Jun 29, 2016
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Taylor Hall blows because he isn’t as good as Malkin. That’s essentially the argument you’re making.

C'mon now... don't embarrass yourself.

Again, if Severson is an offensive minded dman, his stats are poor. If he's a defensive minded dman, why is he getting sheltered minutes?

I'm probably going to the extreme here, he doesn't blow but he's really not as good as he's made out to be by many of our posters.

To me, he's on the same level as John Moore ATM. Very good in transition, elite skater and that's about it.
 

SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
27,837
47,639
NJ
C'mon now... don't embarrass yourself.

Again, if Severson is an offensive minded dman, his stats are poor. If he's a defensive minded dman, why is he getting sheltered minutes?

I'm probably going to the extreme here, he doesn't blow but he's really not as good as he's made out to be by many of our posters.

To me, he's on the same level as John Moore ATM. Very good in transition, elite skater and that's about it.
Disregarding that he’s been more productive than OEL at even strength over the last few seasons again. And I’m embarrassing myself.

And lol at “he’s only a great skater and in transition” as if those aren’t two tremendously important things. Trade the very good 23 year old dman, that’s the answer. We’re done here.
 

Spoiled Bratt

Registered User
Jun 29, 2016
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Disregarding that he’s been more productive than OEL at even strength over the last few seasons again. And I’m embarrassing myself.

And lol at “he’s only a great skater and in transition” as if those aren’t two tremendously important things. Trade the very good 23 year old dman, that’s the answer. We’re done here.

Let's not take into consideration that the Coyotes are hot garbage. Let's not take into consideration that Severson get's sheltered minutes. Let's not take into consideration that OEL had his worst year last year because he played with a broken thumb and suffered a HUGE loss this year with the passing of his mother.

All of those things don't show up on your chart, so it would be fun if you would analyze ALL the variables... not just the one's that fit your narrative.

Being a great skater and being good in transition are great assets to have but most of us here want Moore gone, yet he brings the same criteria as Severson. Again, he has upside but let's not call him elite, like I've seen several times here.
 

MartyOwns

thank you shero
Apr 1, 2007
24,127
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Let's not take into consideration that the Coyotes are hot garbage. Let's not take into consideration that Severson get's sheltered minutes. Let's not take into consideration that OEL had his worst year last year because he played with a broken thumb and suffered a HUGE loss this year with the passing of his mother.

All of those things don't show up on your chart, so it would be fun if you would analyze ALL the variables... not just the one's that fit your narrative.

Being a great skater and being good in transition are great assets to have but most of us here want Moore gone, yet he brings the same criteria as Severson. Again, he has upside but let's not call him elite, like I've seen several times here.

to me, the difference is moore is what he is, whereas severson still has upside. i would kill for just 1 season of stevens as his defensive coach, because i believe severson has all of the tools, he just needs some better direction on specializing parts of his game.
 
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