Confirmed with Link: Devils Trade Henrique, Blandisi, 3rd Round Pick to Anaheim for Sami Vatanen/Conditional 3rd

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

>hype up Jon Merrill
>trash Sami Vatanen

hmmm.

 

[Goptor]

I am not downgrading Vatanen, I am just stating the reality.

Looking at the numbers for the last year plus they aren't good...I don't know if this is because of injury, deployment or some other reason - So I reserve judgement until I can better understand the player he is.

Here is my position on it: On the face of it, as it stands right now he is not a player that was needed. I don't believe he is much an upgrade on the right side (I am largely basing that on the last 90 games of performance) and does nothing to address our true weakness on the left side....Now when you take that and factor in we gave up Henrique, Blandisi and a 3rd for what appears to be more of a "nice to have" than a critical component, the trade becomes less attractive in my eyes. Much less. Maybe he returns to the 2015-16 Vatanen when he was pushing 40 points? I don't know and I don't know why his stats fell off a cliff.

I agree with your assessment that trading Henrique for Vatanen was a downgrade because our forward depth separated us from the other teams and now we are not as strong there anymore.

I think the trade was made with 1-2 years from now as the main goal. Henrique is going to get 6-7 mil in UFA and likely be up for consideration for worst contract in the league. His value will also be much lower during the trade deadline next year as a rental than he will be now. If Santini shows a big improvement or Vatanen doesn't work out here they can still trade Vatanen again. He'll likely still have more value than Henrique because half the teams in the league need RHD.

 

[TrufleShufle]

>hype up Jon Merrill
>trash Sami Vatanen

hmmm.

So we should have traded Rico for Merill obviously. Merill is better, very much missed, LHS, and not Vat. Everyone would be happy.

 

[mtnet]

Speaking of Merrill, looks like he played only 5/27 games for VGK

Injured? Or just washed out of the league finally since exposed in the draft?

 

[TrufleShufle]

Speaking of Merrill, looks like he played only 5/27 games for VGK

Injured? Or just out of the league finally since exposed in the draft?

I know he was scratched a bunch due to their crazy number of D, and him not being the best. Not sure if that was the entire time though. Looks like he recently started playing.

 

[devilsblood]

I'm not sure which one is a better player, Vatanen or Severson, but Severson has been much better with Moore than with Greene (Severson-Greene pairing has never been anything great), and that is a reason, why I'd like to play Vatanen with Greene and Severson with Moore.

I also agree with @tailfins that top 2 LD is a need, and as you wrote, we don't know were there any suitable options to trade Henrique for a LD. Anaheim really needed a C/LW, and that's why the Ducks and the Devils were great trade partners.

I was rolling with this idea for a bit as well.

But when you look at game by game opposition toi, whoever is with Greene get's by far the toughest competition. So Sev's with Greene wasn't great possession wise. Just like Greene Santini wasn't great (brutal actually) possession wise.

But Sev's with Moore is playing weaker competition, thus their #'s look good, but I'm not sure it's a clear indication that they play well together. Or at least, it's not necessarily a better combination then Greene and Sev's.

 

[Devil X]

Speaking of Merrill, looks like he played only 5/27 games for VGK

Injured? Or just washed out of the league finally since exposed in the draft?

I think its more like he is caught in a bad spot with the rest of the Knights D.

I do believe Merrill can have an NHL career as a third pairing/7th Dman. He can handle those roles well i believe. He can step in on the PK in a pinch also. Its just a numbers game right now with them.

 

[NJDevs26]

I think its more like he is caught in a bad spot with the rest of the Knights D.

I do believe Merrill can have an NHL career as a third pairing/7th Dman. He can handle those roles well i believe. He can step in on the PK in a pinch also. Its just a numbers game right now with them.

The funny thing is his ATOI is actually pretty high when he does play, well the first four games he played anyway. And he actually played three of his games in October, but even getting rid of the d-men they have he hasn't played that much since they promoted Shea Theodore.

 

[Devil X]

I was rolling with this idea for a bit as well.

But when you look at game by game opposition toi, whoever is with Greene get's by far the toughest competition. So Sev's with Greene wasn't great possession wise. Just like Greene Santini wasn't great (brutal actually) possession wise.

But Sev's with Moore is playing weaker competition, thus their #'s look good, but I'm not sure it's a clear indication that they play well together. Or at least, it's not necessarily a better combination then Greene and Sev's.

I dont know a lot about how advanced stats work, but Greene and whoever always get the tough assignments and seem to always start in the Dzone. Add to the fact that we cant win face-offs and it seems to be a perfect recipe for Greene and his partners possession numbers to be really crappy.

 

[NJDevs26]

I dont know a lot about how advanced stats work, but Greene and whoever always get the tough assignments and seem to always start in the Dzone. Add to the fact that we cant win face-offs and it seems to be a perfect recipe for Greene and his partners possession numbers to be really crappy.

I was hoping this trade would put an end to that whole grind one d-pairing into the ground philosophy but I guess not. Even though it's not like the top pairing plays 25 minutes a night they play a high-grade 20-22.

 

[devilsblood]

I dont know a lot about how advanced stats work, but Greene and whoever always get the tough assignments and seem to always start in the Dzone. Add to the fact that we cant win face-offs and it seems to be a perfect recipe for Greene and his partners possession numbers to be really crappy.

That's pretty much how advanced stats should be viewed. Can't just look at the #'s. Have to take that context into account.

 

[devilsblood]

I was hoping this trade would put an end to that whole grind one d-pairing into the ground philosophy but I guess not. Even though it's not like the top pairing plays 25 minutes a night they play a high-grade 20-22.

Last nigh Greene played 18 minutes of 5v5. 9 of those minutes was against Panarin.

Sev's played 17:30 with 4 of those minutes vs Panarin.

Santini played 13 mins with 4 vs Panarin.

Vat's played 16 mins with 8 vs Panarin.

Greene played mostly with Vat's and about 2:20 mins with Santini, and you figure that's was mostly against Panarin.


So they have divied it up a bit more then what we saw when Greene and Santini were playing 10 mins+ vs the likes of McDavid and Barkov, while Sev's was playing about 2 mins vs those top lines.

 

[NJDevils17]

Vatenen would have never been available for Henrique if his play hadn't trailed off a little. People were talking Drouin-type players last year. Henrique is a fine contributor now but having to pay him 6 million in a few years and know that he is not a top-line player would be a headache in the making. Very solid middle-six guy, but if he's on your top line, it's probably not a great line anyway.

 

[Zippy316]

I wouldn't move Severson away from Moore or change any of the pairings at this point.

Each pairing seems to compliment each other very well right now.

 

[BenedictGomez]

>hype up Jon Merrill
>trash Sami Vatanen

hmmm.

Pronounce Mirco Mueller a bust before his career began (at 22).

Sometimes I honestly think he just likes to argue about crap.

 

[BenedictGomez]

But Sev's with Moore is playing weaker competition,

Thank god for that.

I dont criticize Skeletor much, but that pairing confuses me.

Putting the 2 guys who often forget they're playing defense on the same pairing just makes no sense to me.

 

[devilsblood]

Thank god for that.

I dont criticize Skeletor much, but that pairing confuses me.

Putting the 2 guys who often forget they're playing defense on the same pairing just makes no sense to me.

I feel this is more of that convential thinking which says offensive d-man needs to be with a stay at home guy. But A)Sev's is a pretty competent 2 way d-man, and B)These 2 have been good together, and yeah that hasn't been against the toughest comp, but they have been good together.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I dont know a lot about how advanced stats work, but Greene and whoever always get the tough assignments and seem to always start in the Dzone.

One fun fact is that it is not mathematically possible to calculate a correlation of Corsi with DZS.

In other words, mathematically speaking that effectively leaves us with underpants.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I feel this is more of that convential thinking which says offensive d-man needs to be with a stay at home guy. But A)Sev's is a pretty competent 2 way d-man, and B)These 2 have been good together, and yeah that hasn't been against the toughest comp, but they have been good together.

My view on these two in 2017.

Moore - below NHL average defensively, above NHL average offensively

Severson - average NHL defensively, average NHL offensively

 

[AfroThunder396]

Our team is not built to be a possession team, our team is built to capitalize on high percentage plays and cede low percentage plays to the opponent. "Keep them to the outside" while we score on odd-man rushes, PPs, and goal mouth scrambles.

Our system values zone exits more than shots generated.

 

[R8Devs]

Our team is not built to be a possession team, our team is built to capitalize on high percentage plays and cede low percentage plays to the opponent. "Keep them to the outside" while we score on odd-man rushes, PPs, and goal mouth scrambles.

that's exactly what colorado fans were saying in 13-14 lol. it's okay they'll get better at it as the younger guys get older and more experienced and as Ray gets better defenseman. You're depending a lot on talent shining through when getting outshot a lot.

 

[AfroThunder396]

that's exactly what colorado fans were saying in 13-14 lol. it's okay they'll get better at it as the younger guys get older and more experienced and as Ray gets better defenseman. You're depending a lot on talent shining through when getting outshot a lot.

It's a good thing we have a lot of talent, then.

I think it's a little silly to compare us to '14 Colorado when they had such a gongshow of mismanagement going on, while Shero has a history of shred moves and Castron's draft record is already paying off. We have much better leadership in the room and no egomaniac behind the bench.

 

[BahlDeep]

Hey Jim,

Aren't you the one who complained that Shero hasn't addressed the defense at all in the beginning of the year? And now that he does, you are on the fence about it?

 

[JimEIV]

Pronounce Mirco Mueller a bust before his career began (at 22).

Sometimes I honestly think he just likes to argue about crap.

I hope you weren't referring to me? Because you know damn well I Never "proclaimed him a bust".

Edit: The whole point of those Mueller discussion earlier was that getting rid of Merrill and keeping Moore insured that Moore would be our #2 LHD because Mueller wasn't ready for top 4 minutes. That is precisely what has transpired. I was off thinking that Moore would be an all situation defender getting a lot more minutes. I thought for sure he would be on both the PP and PK much more than he has been. As it stands right now he is a 20 minute defender. Up a minute from last season

 

[JimEIV]

Hey Jim,

Aren't you the one who complained that Shero hasn't addressed the defense at all in the beginning of the year? And now that he does, you are on the fence about it?

This is true.