Confirmed with Link: Devils Trade Henrique, Blandisi, 3rd Round Pick to Anaheim for Sami Vatanen/Conditional 3rd

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GeNeXt

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I think it's great we got Vatanen. Our forward prospects look decently promising, the Johansson acquisition, and Bratt coming out of nowhere helps a lot with dealing Henrique. If the pre-draft rumors were true about Castron and Co. being enamored by Makar, I think this is a great deal. Had we not won the lottery, drafting Makar would've carried a lot of risk with the possibility of him walking as a college UFA or just not panning out. Vatanen probably is what Makar mostly projects to be as an undersized, smooth-skating, offensive defenceman. Instead of waiting a few years Makar to develop, we're able to get a guy who will have an impact now without as much risk, and carries almost the same amount of reward unless Makar becomes someone like Karlsson, which is unlikely.
 

JimEIV

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I could totally understand the argument that Bratt made Henrique expendable... I don't argee, but it's a legitimate argument.

I don't think our top 6 or our bottom 6 is good enough to toss aside a 40+ point player.

And I'm still not sold that Vatanen brings anything more to the lineup than we already had. I'll reserve judgement on that...but the truth of the matter is right now and going back to his games in Anaheim, Vatanen's numbers are no different than Santini's this season. So I'm very skeptical about this trade.
 
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GeNeXt

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Jul 5, 2012
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I could totally understand the argument that Bratt made Henrique expendable... I don't argee, but it's a legitimate argument.

I don't think our top 6 or our bottom 6 is good enough to toss aside a 40+ point player.

And I'm still not sold that Vatanen brings anything to more to the lineup than we already had. I'll reserve judgement on that...but the truth of the matter is right now and going back to his games in Anaheim, Vatanen's numbers are no different than Santini's this season. So I'm very skeptical about this trade.

I just think Bratt's unexpected arrival, and him getting top-six minutes push Henrique down the line-up. It's not just Bratt, but several other factors.

As for Vatanen, his numbers looked okay a couple seasons ago before his injury/surgery. He can contribute to special teams, but I have to agree that this team can't afford to shelter half of the defense.
 

MartyOwns

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ah ok...good to know, thanks. still hoping we see him at one point this year
 

SpeakingOfTheDevils

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I could totally understand the argument that Bratt made Henrique expendable... I don't argee, but it's a legitimate argument.

I don't think our top 6 or our bottom 6 is good enough to toss aside a 40+ point player.

And I'm still not sold that Vatanen brings anything more to the lineup than we already had. I'll reserve judgement on that...but the truth of the matter is right now and going back to his games in Anaheim, Vatanen's numbers are no different than Santini's this season. So I'm very skeptical about this trade.

It's more than just Bratt. In a vacuum, we essentially acquired an entire line of top-6 quality forwards this summer: Johansson-Hischier-Bratt. With Hall, Zajac and Zacha filling the other LW/C slots, Henrique was clearly getting squeezed.
 

Emperoreddy

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They really are cursed. They broke Blender

That sucks for him. This is his best opportunity to make a case to stick in the NHL while the Ducks are missing guys.
 

BB88

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I could totally understand the argument that Bratt made Henrique expendable... I don't argee, but it's a legitimate argument.

I don't think our top 6 or our bottom 6 is good enough to toss aside a 40+ point player.

And I'm still not sold that Vatanen brings anything more to the lineup than we already had. I'll reserve judgement on that...but the truth of the matter is right now and going back to his games in Anaheim, Vatanen's numbers are no different than Santini's this season. So I'm very skeptical about this trade.

Vats is an honest top4, a top3 when healthy with lots of experience from tough Western playoff games.

I have a saying of you can't outscore a bad defense in the playoffs and Vatanen improves the Devils D-group.
Depth on defense is never, a bad thing, and I would say it lacked a lot more than talent& depth at F.
 

JimEIV

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Vats is an honest top4, a top3 when healthy with lots of experience from tough Western playoff games.

I have a saying of you can't outscore a bad defense in the playoffs and Vatanen improves the Devils D-group.
Depth on defense is never, a bad thing, and I would say it lacked a lot more than talent& depth at F.
I would say Vatanen is not a significant upgrade over Santini or Severson on the right side. He certainly hasn't been better than Severson over the last 90 or so games and his numbers this season with Anaheim and NJ are about the same as Steve Santini expect for Santini has gotten unimaginable defensive zone responsibilities and still has produced as well as Vatanen in all matrices.

The Devils need for defense is squarely rooted on the left side where after Greene there is almost nothing. On top of that Butcher is also viable Right side solution and Lovejoy is signed for another year.

Even if we are getting the Vatanen of two years ago I am still a bit skeptical as he has pretty much been a negative possession player relative to his team nearly his entire career.

I haven't made any final opinions but right now, following the storyboard this doesn't look like a good move for new jersey.
 

BB88

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I would say Vatanen is not a significant upgrade over Santini or Severson on the right side. He certainly hasn't been better than Severson over the last 90 or so games and his numbers this season with Anaheim and NJ are about the same as Steve Santini expect for Santini has gotten unimaginable defensive zone responsibilities and still has produced as well as Vatanen in all matrices.

The Devils need for defense is squarely rooted on the left side where after Greene there is almost nothing. On top of that Butcher is also viable Right side solution and Lovejoy is signed for another year.

Even if we are getting the Vatanen of two years ago I am still a bit skeptical as he has pretty much been a negative possession player relative to his team nearly his entire career.

I haven't made any final opinions but right now, following the storyboard this doesn't look like a good move for new jersey.

I disagree with those.

Do you think Santini is a top4 for Anaheim?, a team that's been an elite regular season team for years, known for their quality D-men.

Vatanen is a puck moving D-man with good mobility, spending less time in your D-zone creates offense, and Vatanen is an improvement on that D-group.
If I may say I don't see Devils D-group as elite, or great either, there's definitely room for improvement for it to be a Cup contending level and this was the 1st move of getting there.

I'm a big believer in the value of defense.
 
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Tretyak 20

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I could totally understand the argument that Bratt made Henrique expendable... I don't argee, but it's a legitimate argument.

I don't think our top 6 or our bottom 6 is good enough to toss aside a 40+ point player.

And I'm still not sold that Vatanen brings anything more to the lineup than we already had. I'll reserve judgement on that...but the truth of the matter is right now and going back to his games in Anaheim, Vatanen's numbers are no different than Santini's this season. So I'm very skeptical about this trade.

I think timing is the key to this trade, though. Ideally we wait until we've seen more from the young forwards, but in the real world you can't always do that. Bratt and Hischier are making huge strides. We've got numerous other forward prospects close to NHL ready. Giving up offensive skill in exchange for defensive skill was a good move. It was a little risky and the timing wasn't ideal, but it was a great move in my book.
 

JimEIV

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I keep hearing Vatanen"is puck moving defenseman" yet his possession numbers look very lopsided over the last two years.

Fact is he doesn't"spend less time in the defensive zone". In fact, this season he's spending as much time in the defensive zone as Santini but with 50% offensive zone starts. Vatanen's possession numbers are worse than Lovejoy's this season...in fact they are worse than any Devil Defenseman not named Santini. He's at 41.9% on the year (Anaheim and NJ combined) with 4 points in 18 game and a minus 7.

I think people see a 5'10 Defenseman that has put up nearly 40 points in the past and just draw conclusions.

Maybe it's just deployment, I don't know? But none of numbers match the narrative of a puck moving top 4 defenseman this season or last.
 

SteveCangialosi123

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You cannot be watching the games if you can't see Vatanen's ability to make a crisp first pass and start a rush. He had a fine game last game. Last game he was -3.6 CF% rel. Andy Greene was -18.8 CF% rel.
 

JimEIV

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You cannot be watching the games if you can't see Vatanen's ability to make a crisp first pass and start a rush. He had a fine game last game. Last game he was -3.6 CF% rel. Andy Greene was -18.8 CF% rel.
May I ask where you are getting game by game CF?

And what was Severson and Santini? Which goes to the initial point that a RHD was not needed and LD was.
 

SteveCangialosi123

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May I ask where you are getting game by game CF?

And what was Severson and Santini? Which goes to the initial point that a RHD was not needed and LD was.
Natural Stat Trick

Severson +3.12
Santini +1.85

I think Severson is better than Vatanen and should be getting tougher minutes btw. It just sucks that the toughest minutes will be played with Andy Greene. He isn't very good anymore and it's hard to create much offense with him on the ice.
 
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JimEIV

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Natural Stat Trick

Severson +3.12
Santini +1.85

I think Severson is better than Vatanen and should be getting tougher minutes btw. It just sucks that the toughest minutes will be played with Andy Greene. He isn't very good anymore and it's hard to create much offense with him on the ice.
Thanks for the info...

But doesn't everything you just wrote further the point that a LD was much more critical?
 

SteveCangialosi123

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Thanks for the info...

But doesn't everything you just wrote further the point that a LD was much more critical?
LD was and is a bigger need. But I'm still happy with the acquisition. I think Vatanen for Henrique who wasn't gonna be resigned is good value. And I think he'll help the team in a bunch of different ways. He isn't a great possession player at even strength if he's being used against top competition it seems, but he'll help both the PP and PK.

It would be great if we could get a Jake Muzzin type on the left side to bump Greene down a spot, but it may take some time to fill that need.
 

devilsblood

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I think people see a 5'10 Defenseman that has put up nearly 40 points in the past and just draw conclusions.

Maybe it's just deployment, I don't know? But none of numbers match the narrative of a puck moving top 4 defenseman this season or last.
His seasons from 2-4 years ago are absolutely tinting the picture. If he can get back to that we win the trade, if not, then not so much.
 

tailfins

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Thanks for the info...

But doesn't everything you just wrote further the point that a LD was much more critical?

I'm not sure what this discussion is about.

I think everyone agrees that top 2 LD is a need. We have Andy Greene. Beyond that's, its a bunch of 3rd pair guys: Moore, Butcher, Mueller, with no one in Binghamton who projects as top 2 pairing LD.

However, we haven't seen a top pair LD move this year. It's not clear who, if anyone, is realistically available.

Meanwhile, with Mueller injured, we needed help. This allows us to play Butcher on the left and to rotate Santini and Lovejoy (and Prout?). We're still extremely thin on LD, but there's no question the defense is deeper now than it was before the deal.

In terms of where Vatanen slots, I think it will take time to figure out. He's playing on a new team and he's coming off an injury (he's only been playing for ~ 1 month). We may only get a full picture of what we got back next year. But, this is what's great about having a signed 26 year old D. This deal could a bigger help for next year.
 
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Monsieur Verdoux

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I haven't made any final opinions but right now, following the storyboard this doesn't look like a good move for new jersey.
It's funny how you keep saying this, when you downgrade Vatanen in your every posts. He has played two pretty strong games and one weak game–though the whole team was really horrible in that Arizona game–with the Devils. As @SteveCangialosi123 wrote, Vatanen's ability to make a crisp first pass and start a rush, and that helps make the team better. I'm much more comfortable when our RD's are Vatanen, Severson, and Santini than Santini, Severson, and Lovejoy.

I'm not sure which one is a better player, Vatanen or Severson, but Severson has been much better with Moore than with Greene (Severson-Greene pairing has never been anything great), and that is a reason, why I'd like to play Vatanen with Greene and Severson with Moore.

I also agree with @tailfins that top 2 LD is a need, and as you wrote, we don't know were there any suitable options to trade Henrique for a LD. Anaheim really needed a C/LW, and that's why the Ducks and the Devils were great trade partners.
 
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JimEIV

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It's funny how you keep saying this, when you downgrade Vatanen in your every posts. He has played two pretty strong games and one weak game–though whole team was really horrible in that Arizona game–with the Devils. As @SteveCangialosi123 wrote, Vatanen's ability to make a crisp first pass and start a rush, and that helps make the team better. I'm much more comfortable when our RD's are Vatanen, Severson, and Santini than Santini, Severson, and Lovejoy.

I'm not sure which one is a better player, Vatanen or Severson, but Severson has been much better with Moore than with Greene (Severson-Greene pairing has never been anything great), and that is a reason, why I'd like to play Vatanen with Greene and Severson with Moore.

I also agree with @tailfins that top 2 LD is a need, and as you wrote, we don't know were there any suitable options to trade Henrique for a LD. Anaheim really needed a C/LW, and that's why the Ducks and the Devils were great trade partners.

I am not downgrading Vatanen, I am just stating the reality.

Looking at the numbers for the last year plus they aren't good...I don't know if this is because of injury, deployment or some other reason - So I reserve judgement until I can better understand the player he is.

Here is my position on it: On the face of it, as it stands right now he is not a player that was needed. I don't believe he is much an upgrade on the right side (I am largely basing that on the last 90 games of performance) and does nothing to address our true weakness on the left side....Now when you take that and factor in we gave up Henrique, Blandisi and a 3rd for what appears to be more of a "nice to have" than a critical component, the trade becomes less attractive in my eyes. Much less. Maybe he returns to the 2015-16 Vatanen when he was pushing 40 points? I don't know and I don't know why his stats fell off a cliff.
 
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