Speculation: Devils Defense

Classic Devil

Spirit of 1988
Dec 23, 2003
39,327
3,997
Columbus, Ohio
I think the bashing of Severson is premature. He's 23. Most defensemen don't hit their primes until their late-20s. Give him time to develop his mental game a bit more before we write him off.

That said, if the Devils can turn Severson+ into a more reliable defenseman, I'd be in favor.

(I want NJ to kick the tires on Karlsson this offseason.)
 

Nico the Draft Riser

Devils, Rams, Hawks, Twins fan
Nov 18, 2017
3,351
1,364
I think the bashing of Severson is premature. He's 23. Most defensemen don't hit their primes until their late-20s. Give him time to develop his mental game a bit more before we write him off.

That said, if the Devils can turn Severson+ into a more reliable defenseman, I'd be in favor.

(I want NJ to kick the tires on Karlsson this offseason.)
What Severson can become is irrelevant at this point. The coaching staff has clearly shown they don’t trust him as much as DeBoer did. I feel he is on his way out.

Moving Severson for an equal on the left side is our best best. So a young top 4 LHD. Work from there.
 

ChaoticOrange

Registered User
Jun 29, 2008
50,532
29,155
Edmonton
Okay fine

But why are the Devils moving a top 4 dman with upside for a 4th round pick, what has Caleb Jones done to even be a main piece in a deal for Severson?

Fourth round pick or no, Jones has NHL upside and played very well for Bakersfield down the stretch. Many people - myself included - see him as having top 4 upside.

Where he was drafted doesn’t matter. If it does, I’ll happily offer a 3rd for Jesper Bratt.
 

Classic Devil

Spirit of 1988
Dec 23, 2003
39,327
3,997
Columbus, Ohio
Burns has thrown away games for the Sharks at times. Do you think he’s a bottom pairing?

Lovejoy is fine on the bottom pairing

Definitely

The way I see it is

Xxx-Vatanen
Santini-Severson
Mueller-Greene

Just guessed on handedness a little but that’s not bad. Now add someone like Carlson or de Haan as a lesser extent. And it looks good.

RHD: Vatanen, Severson, Santini, Lovejoy
LHD: Greene, Mueller, Butcher

Assume Moore is gone. That's not an awful group of defensemen, especially if Santini, Severson, Mueller, and Butcher continue to improve and Greene's game doesn't completely go off the cliff. But I'd really like to be able to add a LHD that is a real top-pairing guy. Then you can push Butcher to the right side if you need to (he's comfortable there).
 

Nico the Draft Riser

Devils, Rams, Hawks, Twins fan
Nov 18, 2017
3,351
1,364
Fourth round pick or no, Jones has NHL upside and played very well for Bakersfield down the stretch. Many people - myself included - see him as having top 4 upside.

Where he was drafted doesn’t matter. If it does, I’ll happily offer a 3rd for Jesper Bratt.
So you think NJ is just going to move one of their top 4 guys for a project?

No thanks lol. Try to fool someone else with that.

Severson goes for a similar LHD (Nurse) or in a package for a top end dman. Nothing less
 

Classic Devil

Spirit of 1988
Dec 23, 2003
39,327
3,997
Columbus, Ohio
Fourth round pick or no, Jones has NHL upside and played very well for Bakersfield down the stretch. Many people - myself included - see him as having top 4 upside.

Where he was drafted doesn’t matter. If it does, I’ll happily offer a 3rd for Jesper Bratt.
Severson isn't getting dealt for a defensemen who isn't already in the NHL and proven at that level. No chance.
 

RememberTheName

Conductor of the Schmid Bandwagon
Jan 5, 2016
7,383
5,107
On Earth
lol. You ever play hockey? You have no idea how to analyze a game. This is clearly on severson and Palmeiri for not playing Point while Greene took the guy on his side, which was what he did. Like I said. You learn that in pee wee. Blame Greene all you want for pointing(pointing because he knew it wasn't his man) or for slowing down when he expected severson to take point. Fact is. Severson screwed up and because he did it messed up Greene when he realized severson was an idiot. You team gets caught on a line change. Your D stay the opposite side of the bench, so the d coming on doesn't have to skate all the way across cuz he has no time Not just hockey 101, its hockey common sense.
I tend to disagree, but I guess you'll stick to your opinion, and I'll stick to mine
 

Devilsfan118

Sing us a song, you're the Schiano man
Jun 11, 2010
3,050
2,396
NJ
Picking Zacha over Werenski/Provorov has been a colossal mistake

Conte's final parting gift to the Devils.

"HE'S GOT THAT HOCKEY SIZE, THO!"

But anyway, I think the Devils make an aggressive pitch to Carlson. If they get him, maybe they can afford to move another piece or two to try and solidify things on the back end.

But I don't think you take away from the forward group much if you can help it. Dangle Zacha/McLeod/Bratt, see if there's interest around the league.
 

ChaoticOrange

Registered User
Jun 29, 2008
50,532
29,155
Edmonton
So you think NJ is just going to move one of their top 4 guys for a project?

No thanks lol. Try to fool someone else with that.

Severson goes for a similar LHD (Nurse) or in a package for a top end dman. Nothing less

Severson is not worth Nurse. Not even close.

Nurse is excellent at 5 on 5 and finished +15 on a team that was -29. He’s more physical and better defensively. He’s an elite skater and just coming into his own.

Hell he even had more points with zero powerplay time - 26 even strength points was 34th in the league among defencemen.

The only thing similar about Severson and Nurse is they’re both hockey players.
 

Nico the Draft Riser

Devils, Rams, Hawks, Twins fan
Nov 18, 2017
3,351
1,364
Severson is not worth Nurse. Not even close.

Nurse is excellent at 5 on 5 and finished +15 on a team that was -29. He’s more physical and better defensively. He’s an elite skater and just coming into his own.

Hell he even had more points with zero powerplay time - 26 even strength points was 34th in the league among defencemen.
Okay great and some unknown fourth rounder that is barely worth his pick used on him doesnt get you Severson. Every NHL team has 3-4 Caleb Jones’ lol.

Just because NJ ripped off Edmonton once doesnt mean it goes the other way around, NHL refs dont run the trades thankfully.
 

Puckclektr

Registered User
Jul 15, 2004
6,235
2,183
GTA
I tend to disagree, but I guess you'll stick to your opinion, and I'll stick to mine
Agree to disagree and I am not trying to be an a-hole or condescending at all, but we teach that exact situation to kids here in minor hockey. Even if it isn't your side you take the opposite side of the bench when a player gets caught in a change. Severson was out to lunch and if the kids I have taught in 'AAA' at a pee wee bantam level know that,so should severson. Brain fart in his part. Agree to disagree, but there is a plan that needs to be executed in these situations that is taught at an early age and severson didn't play it properl and it screwed up Greene. There is culpability in these situations.
 

ChaoticOrange

Registered User
Jun 29, 2008
50,532
29,155
Edmonton
Okay great and some unknown fourth rounder that is barely worth his pick used on him doesnt get you Severson. Every NHL team has 3-4 Caleb Jones’ lol.

Just because NJ ripped off Edmonton once doesnt mean it goes the other way around, NHL refs dont run the trades thankfully.

Barely worth his pick? The kid isn’t 21 til June and playing top pairing in the AHL. If you get that out of a 2nd round pick you’re happy with their progress.

Twice, actually. A third and a nothing prospect is looking pretty good for Maroon isn’t it, considering you paid more for Grabner and he’s been invisible.
 

Classic Devil

Spirit of 1988
Dec 23, 2003
39,327
3,997
Columbus, Ohio
Then he’s probably not getting dealt at all, to be honest. I can’t see anyone giving up a young top 4 defenceman for him. Definitely not the Oilers.
I think this is probably right. It's more likely he's dealt as a piece for a big contract, not dealt 1 for 1. But there's no way he gets traded straight up for someone who isn't already playing in the NHL.
 

Gecklund

Registered User
Jul 17, 2012
25,142
11,717
California
RHD: Vatanen, Severson, Santini, Lovejoy
LHD: Greene, Mueller, Butcher

Assume Moore is gone. That's not an awful group of defensemen, especially if Santini, Severson, Mueller, and Butcher continue to improve and Greene's game doesn't completely go off the cliff. But I'd really like to be able to add a LHD that is a real top-pairing guy. Then you can push Butcher to the right side if you need to (he's comfortable there).
Completely forgot about Butcher too, maybe replace Mueller with Butcher and switch Greene/Butcher's sides. It's too bad that Carlson isn't a LHD.

Would something like
De Haan-Vatanen
Greene-Severson
Butcher-Santini
Mueller-Lovejoy

make everyone happy? While not the best group that seems like a solid top 8 D. I'm pretty sure that de Haan is like Butcher and likes the right side too.
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
Nov 6, 2005
71,819
44,245
PA
What Severson can become is irrelevant at this point. The coaching staff has clearly shown they don’t trust him as much as DeBoer did. I feel he is on his way out.

Moving Severson for an equal on the left side is our best best. So a young top 4 LHD. Work from there.

how many games did Severson play under Deboer, 20? Deboer was fired in December 2014.....Severson's rookie season
 

Smitty426

Registered User
Jun 25, 2006
4,343
846
Jersey
Oh I’m completely aware of the situation but saying you need 4 replacement defenders is completely inaccurate.
1. You have Santini
2. Severson is good enough maybe not a number 1 but definitely at least a number 3 D
3. Mueller is fine on a bottom pairing as is Lovejoy
4. Greene is still top 4.
Realistically you could use 1 maybe 2 D. The problem is you don’t have a solid number 1 so everyone is having to step up into roles that don’t exactly fit them.

This guy is right! Not so sure about the LJ idea, but at bottom, yeah he's not the worse.
 

Setec Astronomy

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
2,626
1,786
The Devils have the cap space to sign one player currently not in the organization to a big contract (whether they acquire by free agency or via trade). I'm guessing that Shero has two acquisitions in mind this offseason, Tavares and Carlson. Can have one, but not the other. There was some indication that Shero was inquiring about OEL in November/December, but it looks like both OEL and Arizona are committed to working out a longer term deal.

An outside chance that Shero tries to trade for Karlsson.
 

HBK27

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Aug 5, 2005
13,516
13,741
Northern NJ
Picking Zacha over Werenski/Provorov has been a colossal mistake

Absolutely. It was the last draft of the David Conte era (which was phenominal at it's peak, but awful at the end) - have to think if Castron was on board the Devils would've picked differently. At the very least, Shero should've traded down as there was a lot of uncertainty after the top 5 that year. Devils had good defensive prospects at the time and they seemingly forced the pick of a forward (which could've still been Barzal) when they could've had Werenski or Provorov.

That being said, Zacha was in NJ's lineup last season and contributed to where they finished in the standings (for better or worse) which led to them winning the draft lottery and getting Nico, who will be a great player for the Devils for a long time. Long-term is the Zacha/Nico combo better than what they could've gotten with Werenski/Provorov/Barzal and a (likely) later 1st round 2017 pick? Who knows...maybe not, but it's probably close.

Zacha is barely an NHL player, another incredibly low IQ guy who can’t finish to save his life

Not sure why people feel the need to make ridiculous hot takes like this. Zacha just turned 21 a few days ago and is the #2 center on a playoff team. He's shown some good flashes of skill this season and is certainly a much better player in his 2nd year than his 1st in the NHL. To write him off as "barely and NHL player" at this point is an asinine statement.

Shero's done a great job rebuilding NJ's forward group and improving the defense with Vatanen and Butcher, but continued improvements on defense has to be a priority this offseason. Would have to think Carlson is a target, but even if they don't land him I expect a few changes heading into next year.
 

Billdo

Registered User
Oct 28, 2008
19,358
16,185
Ocean County
Then you have severson, who unfortunately they locked up long term, but he’s awful. No awareness and a terrible decision maker.

Yeah, he’s not awful and his deal is a good one.


The entire NJD fan base was hoping they would select Barzal at 6th overall.

Yeah, this isn’t true either. Some wanted Barzal for sure, but this “entire fan base” crap is revisionist. The fact of the matter is Zacha went where he was predicted to go. You can go back and look at every draft and say we shouldve taken someone different but don’t lie about it.




AND FOR THE RECORD TO EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD.... THESE TWO DO NOT REPRESENT THE MAJORITY OF THE DEVILS BOARD OR FANBASE.
 

Puckclektr

Registered User
Jul 15, 2004
6,235
2,183
GTA
Absolutely. It was the last draft of the David Conte era (which was phenominal at it's peak, but awful at the end) - have to think if Castron was on board the Devils would've picked differently. At the very least, Shero should've traded down as there was a lot of uncertainty after the top 5 that year. Devils had good defensive prospects at the time and they seemingly forced the pick of a forward (which could've still been Barzal) when they could've had Werenski or Provorov.

That being said, Zacha was in NJ's lineup last season and contributed to where they finished in the standings (for better or worse) which led to them winning the draft lottery and getting Nico, who will be a great player for the Devils for a long time. Long-term is the Zacha/Nico combo better than what they could've gotten with Werenski/Provorov/Barzal and a (likely) later 1st round 2017 pick? Who knows...maybe not, but it's probably close.



Not sure why people feel the need to make ridiculous hot takes like this. Zacha just turned 21 a few days ago and is the #2 center on a playoff team. He's shown some good flashes of skill this season and is certainly a much better player in his 2nd year than his 1st in the NHL. To write him off as "barely and NHL player" at this point is an asinine statement.

Shero's done a great job rebuilding NJ's forward group and improving the defense with Vatanen and Butcher, but continued improvements on defense has to be a priority this offseason. Would have to think Carlson is a target, but even if they don't land him I expect a few changes heading into next year.
That is prety much telling you why jersey is having a hard time scoring. I don't care if he is your second line centre or not. When your second line centre has 25 points you really don't have a second line centre. You have a fourth line centre
 

Zajacs Bowl Cut

Lets Go Baby
Nov 6, 2005
71,819
44,245
PA
Zacha made great strides in his game the 2nd half of the season. Writing him off right now is ridiculous.

Also, it just isn't true that the "entire Devils fanbase" wanted Barzal at 6. Not that it even matters what we want.

Lastly, any talk about picking a DMan that year is just stupid. The team was clearly going to take a forward and if they had picked a DMan, the fans would have rioted.
 

Rhodes 81

grit those teeth
Nov 22, 2008
16,084
5,405
Atlanta
I desperately wanted the Devils to draft Provorov even when we though Larsson, Severson, Merrill, and Gelinas were our future because it seemed so obvious that he was better than anyone else available and I despise drafting for need in the first round, but they didn't. Gelinas busted, Severson has under performed, and Merrill and Larsson are gone. That should be complete proof that Drafting for need is idiocy. That said, Zacha is fine, especially if he can work on his accuracy, and I'm fine with him as the 2nd line center.

The defense isn't nearly as bad as some seem to think it is. If Greene were the same player he was 2-3 years ago it would be fine. Mueller is inconsistent and Lovejoy should be replaced by Santini next year. The Devils have the cap space to throw stupid money at Carlson and if they do I think they'll be fine. Carlson-Vatanen, Greene-Severson, Butcher-Santini would be a fine six. with Lovejoy and Mueller doing something somewhere.
 

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