GDT: Devils at Jackets

[Emperoreddy]

Vats has also been awful the past three games. Not surprising we lost maybe his three worst games as a Devil so far.

He is a guy we can’t afford to be having off nights like this.

Think you gotta look back just a little bit further than a week. Their spotty play has been an issue for quite some time now. I mean good for you if you see something here. Nothing wrong with being positive. To me though, very hard to ignore all the red flags flying around.

I mean you were all aboard not even a week ago when they beat Pitt.

This comes off rather fairweather

well first off im not a GM.

so now moore is the scapegoat? but just the other night you were defending KK when he had a bad night.... follows it up by letting in 6 and you dont say a word. its funny how you pick and choose who to sandbag and who to defend.

im in favor of re-signing moore as a piece to build around. not as a guy to rely on. thats all im saying.

Dude he has been about as bad as someone can be.

He also isn’t a piece you build around.

Lovejoy was on for 2 goals. The first one was created off an idiotic turnover by Noesen, and the 2nd was a well executed play by Columbus on the PP. Moore and Severson were on for 3 goals against by the way.

Lovejoy was directly responsible for his goals against. He lost the puck two or three times leading up to being blown by on the first goal.

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

I mean you were all aboard not even a week ago when they beat Pitt.

This comes off rather fairweather

You may have me confused with someone else. I did not proclaim playoffs for this team after that game (actually never have, just said that I expected them to at least be competitive). Sure, they played well and deserve credit for it but it’s one game. The fact is that they’ve been playing more poor games than good ones for a decent amount of time now. Whatever the case, what does that have to do with what they face moving forward? They have no goaltending. Mojo is hurt and may not even come back this season. Scoring is inconsistent. But okay, doubting a young team with flaws facing a harsh schedule is fairweather. Got it.

 

[MadDevil]

Lovejoy was directly responsible for his goals against. He lost the puck two or three times leading up to being blown by on the first goal.

Fine, so let's put all the blame on Lovejoy for the first goal. We gave up 5 f***ing more after that, and the second one he was on for was on Boyle for losing his man in the slot.

 

[Emperoreddy]

It is one thing to be emotional and correctly see major issues, or good things when they win.

It isn’t an excuse to be this fickle with the opinion of a team. Pretty silly to go from winning three games and being “all in, let’s go trade for half of Ottawa” to “the team is doomed, tank!” From week to week.

I get being emotional, especially after an embarrassing lose, but some level-headed outlooks shouldn’t be too much to ask.

In the grand scheme of things the team’s fortunes haven’t changed that much for better or for worse since a week or two ago outside of there simply being less games to play.

They can still go in either direction, with the overall odds still being in favor of a playoff berth. So basically they are a bubble team.

 

[AveryQuietMan]

im not acting like moore is a cornerstone. he can be useful with the right pieces around him tho. sorry if you are the one that cant see that.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Fine, so let's put all the blame on Lovejoy for the first goal. We gave up 5 ****ing more after that, and the second one he was on for was on Boyle for losing his man in the slot.

We have two anchors on defense with much better options to play over them on the bench and in Bingo.

Lovejoy only hurts this team, and we have been a worse team with him in the lineup all season.

13-15-5 with Lovejoy. He should be stapled to the press box.

You may have me confused with someone else. I did not proclaim playoffs for this team after that game (actually never have, just said that I expected them to at least be competitive). Sure, they played well and deserve credit for it but it’s one game. The fact is that they’ve been playing more poor games than good ones for a decent amount of time now. Whatever the case, what does that have to do with what they face moving forward? They have no goaltending. Mojo is hurt and may not even come back this season. Scoring is inconsistent. But okay, doubting a young team with flaws facing a harsh schedule is fairweather. Got it.

They haven’t had Mojo since the Boston game and still rolled off three in a row. They didn’t have Cory either. You make it sound like this crazy stretch of the imagination for s team that has been in the top 3 for almost three quarters of a season to be able to close it out.

Cory should be back in a couple of weeks, and scoring has almost never been an issue all year.

The issue has been defensively, but it Hynes ices his best team they should do well enough, especially in a weak Metro.

 

[Bleedred]

It's not the "game" per se I'm noting, it's the once again sub .900 svp that's concerning.

I thought he allowed two that he probably could (maybe not should have had, but could have had) have had, the third and fourth goals, but it was probably his best game in quite a while, unless you count Buffalo who never scores or Pittsburgh, when we played our best game that we've played in front of him or probably any goalie all year long. Even when he only gives up 3 goals on 25 shots, it's like usually at least one or two are pretty bad. I'm surprised that he doesn't have a couple more better games just by pure luck or chance, just on complete accident. Even on his best night, he probably allows 4 goals tonight. Maybe even 3 if he's having a REALLY good night and has a little luck.

This was a horrid, brutal, disgusting effort. We're at the point where this might be our signature loss of the season, but we've also been in the toilet for so long that it wouldn't exactly be the defining loss of the season. And we have a 3 game winning streak last week, then totally undo it all with a 3 game regulation losing streak. We haven't even lost a game in OT/shootout in way too long. Was it the game right before the bye week, a month ago at Barclays Center?

 

[MadDevil]

We have two anchors on defense with much better options to play over them on the bench and in Bingo.

Lovejoy only hurts this team, and we have been a worse team with him in the lineup all season.

He's been fine most of the season. I'd rather play Santini over him but this "Ben Lovejoy's mere presence kills the team" bullshit is getting overblown.

 

[Emperoreddy]

He's been fine most of the season. I'd rather play Santini over him but this "Ben Lovejoy's mere presence kills the team" bull**** is getting overblown.

13-15-5

We lose more then we win when he is in the lineup. He isn’t fine. He is an anchor and the exact opposite of team identity, more so then anyone else on the team outside of maybe Boyle.

Greene and Zajac fit this team better then Lovejoy does.

 

[Bleedred]

I'm starting to get over the Lovejoy fetish (sounds exciting!). If he's in, he shouldn't be played any longer than 15-16 minutes a night, maybe 17 on a night loaded with PK's, like tonight. Definitely seconds shy of 20 minutes though.

I kept fearing after every 2-3 game stretch that he was in back in October-November ''Oh no! Hynes will never get rid of Lovejoy now! He'll never banish him back to the scratchbox! He's entrenched in the lineup for good now!'' and I kept being wrong about it back then. In this last stretch since he got back in, it's been all Lovejoy though.

It's almost like Hynes is making up for lost time earlier in the season. ''We're sorry we kept you in the prison death camp for games on end! So here's a token of gratitude to show our sincerest of apologies!''.

 

[MadDevil]

13-15-5

We lose more then we win when he is in the lineup.

Yeah, let's not use any context here or anything. It's totally not related to players who started hot cooling off, or our goaltending and team defense going to shit the last 15 games. It's all Ben Lovejoy.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I'm starting to get over the Lovejoy fetish (sounds exciting!). If he's in, he shouldn't be played any longer than 15-16 minutes a night, maybe 17 on a night loaded with PK's, like tonight. Definitely seconds shy of 20 minutes though.

I kept fearing after every 2-3 game stretch that he was in back in October-November ''Oh no! Hynes will never get rid of Lovejoy now! He'll never banish him back to the scratchbox! He's entrenched in the lineup for good now!'' and I kept being wrong about it back then. In this last stretch since he got back in, it's been all Lovejoy though.

It's almost like Hynes is making up for lost time earlier in the season. ''We're sorry we kept you in the prison death camp for games on end! So here's a token of gratitude to show our sincerest of apologies!''.

It isn’t some kind of secret we were having our best success as a team with Lovejoy in the press box only rotating in for one or two games at a time.

Hynes is falling back into the mistakes he made last season.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yeah, let's not use any context here or anything. It's totally not related to players who started hot cooling off, or our goaltending and team defense going to **** the last 15 games. It's all Ben Lovejoy.

We have played a quarter of a season’s worth of games with him, and we are a sub .500 team with him.

The dude is a boat anchor, and Hynes is making the same mistakes as he made last year and why nearly the entire board wanted him fired.

If we miss the playoffs Shero needs to fire Hynes and buyout Lovejoy. Would need to be near the top of the agenda.

 

[MadDevil]

While we're at it, we won more with Marty in 2013-14 than we did Cory. Guess we should have ridden Marty more that year, we might have made the playoffs!

 

[MadDevil]

So if Lovejoy sits all will magically be okay, right?

 

[Its a Trap]

What the.......


What happened?!

 

[MadDevil]

If you want to bitch about any defenseman being terrible tonight and absolutely deserving to sit it's Moore. Hell, I would even say Vatanen was worse tonight than the cancer that is Ben Lovejoy.

 

[Bleedred]

While we're at it, we won more with Marty in 2013-14 than we did Cory. Guess we should have ridden Marty more that year, we might have made the playoffs!

And that's the reason that I just can't use our record with Lovejoy against Lovejoy.

Make no mistake about it, I'm not in favor of Lovejoy playing most nights, but I can't fairly attribute that record to him. And even when he's bad, somehow the pucks are still magically hitting the goalies at even strength (not tonight though) when he's on the ice. He's still got the ridiculous on-ice save percentage of close to 94%. Which I think is mostly freak luck, much like Michael Grabner's 2 straight years of ridiculous shooting percentage. I don't think it's because Lovejoy is very good at suppressing high-danger chances against.

Another problem with Lovejoy lately, is that when he's in and somebody gets scratched, it's gonna be someone that's better than him that's sitting. Severson is better than Lovejoy, Butcher is better than Lovejoy (he's due for a scratch and it's probably coming tomorrow if not to Severson), if Mueller isn't better than Lovejoy already, he's certainly not gonna get any better than him by sitting upstairs in a suit and loafers.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Let's be serious here... It isn't one bad week. This team has been playing badly since the buffalo game in December, with only a few games as exceptions. We were losing with Cory in net, and it wasn't at all his fault, and now we're losing with Kincaid and it's partially his fault. Look, 6 or 16 doesn't make a difference if you only score one. 50 shots against and 6 goals is like 2 25 shot efforts with 3 against, as far as I'm concerned.

Severs on, lovejoy, vats, Moore and Greene can all sit after that crap and the sad part is that our forwards are the real problem. They should hopefully get this turned around, and Cory coming back will help...but if they keep playing like this it won't matter who is in net.

 

[MadDevil]

The problem with going the Lovejoy vs Mueller route is that one is a LHD and one is a RHD. So either Mueller or Butcher would have to play their off side to have Lovejoy sit for him. I know Butcher can play both sides, but I can understand not wanting a rookie switching sides 50+ games into his first NHL season. Plus it probably means more Vatanen or Severson on the PK, or a LHD playing their off side on the PK, which isn't ideal either.

 

[RSeen]

im not acting like moore is a cornerstone. he can be useful with the right pieces around him tho. sorry if you are the one that cant see that.

If you can't that see that his roster spot is the only upgradable one on the left side of the defense based on the fact that he is a pending UFA, Greene is the captain and has term on his contract (plus he is not a hot commodity), and Butcher is a young player that has performed well, then sorry to you.

 

[MadDevil]

What the.......


What happened?!

In the game? Nobody other than Hall or Kinkaid bothered to show up, and Kinkaid eventually succumbed to shellshock. Do yourself a favor, don't watch any of it.

 

[Jets012]

Butcher has been excellent in all possession stats against the level of competition he's faced. Why does he not deserve a chance to play on the second pairing with Severson? I see no reason that Butcher can't handle getting tougher assignments at this point. I mean the only good excuse I hear for him not playing tougher assignments and more 5 on 5 minutes is that Hynes' judgement is that he can't handle it. Well the same people that are saying that are the same people ripping Hynes for not playing Mueller or Santini.

Then you put Moore or Mueller with Lovejoy on the third pairing. But it doesn't matter, until the goaltending shapes up there's no solution with this defense with who is currently on the roster. When Schneider is out there, we have a goaltender better than league average. Kinkaid is an AHL goalie that is no doubt going to struggle when we don't have the finest defensive team in the league.

And the forwards should not be getting a pass for what's going on. We've allowed a lot of goals, but the forwards have been a massive problem as the year goes on. Getting progressively worse at scoring on the 5 on 5. We have 13 5 on 5 goals in the last 10 games! If MoJo and Gibbons are out for a while and you want to make the playoffs, you have to make a move. Playing Stafford is a negative. Zacha while better isn't playing like a top 6 player. Palms has played like a 3rd/4th liner all year. And Bratt has really cooled off and definitely shouldn't be on the first line at the moment. We don't have the offensive depth we had anymore.

 

[billingtons ghost]

The fact is, they are a young team, and they will have losses like this. The only worry is if it wrecks confidence. The bummer is that games like this are where your vets need to lead... And our vets are incapable... And if you start getting guys like lovejoy, Moore,, vats, and Severson unbalanced, they have all shown a propensity to try to do too much rather than simplify.

Btw if I'm Haynes, I bring up an echl goalie who is used to this kind of nuttiness.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Butcher has been excellent in all possession stats against the level of competition he's faced. Why does he not deserve a chance to play on the second pairing with Severson? I see no reason that Butcher can't handle getting tougher assignments at this point. I mean the only good excuse I hear for him not playing tougher assignments and more 5 on 5 minutes is that Hynes' judgement is that he can't handle it. Well the same people that are saying that are the same people ripping Hynes for not playing Mueller or Santini.

Then you put Moore or Mueller with Lovejoy on the third pairing. But it doesn't matter, until the goaltending shapes up there's no solution with this defense with who is currently on the roster. When Schneider is out there, we have a goaltender better than league average. Kinkaid is an AHL goalie that is no doubt going to struggle when we don't have the finest defensive team in the league.

And the forwards should not be getting a pass for what's going on. We've allowed a lot of goals, but the forwards have been a massive problem as the year goes on. Getting progressively worse at scoring on the 5 on 5. We have 13 5 on 5 goals in the last 10 games! If MoJo and Gibbons are out for a while and you want to make the playoffs, you have to make a move. Playing Stafford is a negative. Zacha while better isn't playing like a top 6 player. Palms has played like a 3rd/4th liner all year. And Bratt has really cooled off and definitely shouldn't be on the first line at the moment. We don't have the offensive depth we had anymore.

because you'll ruin him. Just like Moore shouldn't be getting big minutes and lovejoy shouldn't be anything but d#6 or 7