Devils and Red Wings Attendance issued rationalized

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by xDerekRx, May 15, 2007.

  1. xDerekRx

    xDerekRx Registered User

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    I think both attendance issues are rationalized. People got worked up over both but I think if you do a little research you find the problems have nothing to do with the sport of hockey.

    First the Devils can only look at the Nets who are playing none other than Lebron James. So its not the Devils or the sports of hockey, its the arena.

    "GETTING TERRITORIAL: On Long Island, Shaun Powell notes the Nets are in the playoffs again, but New Jersey “doesn’t care.†At tip-off of Game Three of their second-round series against the Cavaliers and LeBron James on Saturday night, Continental Airlines Arena was “one-third empty. More people trickled in and the announced attendance was 20,032, but there were rows of empty seats.†Only one of the Nets’ four home games this postseason has sold out. Powell wrote “now you know why the Nets have given up on Jersey†and plan to move to Brooklyn. Nets TV analyst Mark Jackson, a Brooklyn native who formerly played for the Knicks, said of having the Nets in Brooklyn, “Being able to go to a game right off the street will be attractive to a lot of people. They’ll be able to claim this team.†But Powell added, “Brooklyn claims the Knicks; always has, always willâ€



    As for the Red Wings, Ive heard over an over about the economy and it seems the ownership has misread it along with pissed off some season ticket holders. Even with all that and the Pistons being the playoffs, people there still love their hockey more than anything else.

    "Empty seats were a “common sight in the early rounds†of Red Wings Stanley Cup playoff games at Joe Louis Arena, according to Steve Pardo of the DETROIT NEWS. While “competition from the Pistons, the Tigers and even the weather may be partially responsible,†Red Wings Senior Dir of Communications John Hahn said, “The number one reason is the economy here in Detroit –- the layoffs and business closings here in the region. These are the people that come to the games.†Fan Rich Green said, “Given [the Red Wings’] playoff performances of the past few years, spending money to watch the game in person is an investment I don’t want to make.†Pardo noted season-ticket holders had to pay for the first two rounds in advance. Season-ticket holder Patricia Nemeth said, “Nobody likes it. And you don’t get your money back until next year (if they don’t advance). You don’t get any interest on your money back, either.†But FSN Detroit spokesperson Tim Bryant said the net has averaged an 8.9 cable HH rating for five Red Wings playoff telecasts. That translates to about 172,500 HHs; regular-season Wings games on FSN averaged less than 70,000 HHs (DETROIT NEWS, 5/12)."
     
  2. krudmonk

    krudmonk Registered User

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    Saying "they don't like basketball either" doesn't rationalize anything for the Devils.
     
  3. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers White guilt milquetoast piece of human garbage. Sponsor

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    Wait a second. For the Red Wings. The STHs don't get their money back for tickets if the team doesn't make it past a round?

    Is that even legal?
     
  4. Bear of Bad News

    Bear of Bad News HFBoards Escape Goat

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    That's not legal. Of course, that's not what is said in the original post, either.
     
  5. Dr.Huxtable*

    Dr.Huxtable* Guest

    Yes it does. It shows the people outside of Jersey that the Arena is a dump in the middle of a swamp with NO public transportation. The only difference is this year they are building these ridiculous obstructions in the parking lot which made it even more difficult to get to the arena. Langenbrunner said that this season when he drove past the CAA he could no longer see the building only mounds of dirt. It's not that the people don't care about hockey.

    Just look at the ticket sales for the new arena next year, the Devils have more fans than you think.
     
  6. DevilsFan38

    DevilsFan38 Registered User

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    Has Anaheim sold out a playoff game yet? I don't understand why some teams get ripped on all the time for attendance while others get ignored.
     
  7. Silver

    Silver Registered User

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    http://www.anaheimducks.com/press/feature/article.php?dir=200705&id=1702

    The Ducks have a strong band wagon jumping factor, and attendance is always better in the second half of the year. Baseball playoffs in October and the NFL really seem to hurt them.
     
  8. DevilsFan38

    DevilsFan38 Registered User

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    Thanks. I was looking up their attendance on nhl.com, and numbers in the low 17,000's seemed low for sellouts, but I wasn't sure what Honda Center's capacity is.
     
  9. krudmonk

    krudmonk Registered User

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    I saw the thread on that matter and was not taking a shot at Devils fans. I was simply pointing out what a crappy argument the original poster made. Notice there is no mention of public transportation or crappy arenas. It's all about the Nets.
     
  10. Hawker14

    Hawker14 Registered User

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    I'm fairly certain the Wings are generating at least $2 million per game in the playoffs at the gate. Empty seats are a concern anywhere during the playoffs, but the bottom line is how much revenue is generated. Detroit has no worries in that regard.
     
  11. Devs4L

    Devs4L Registered User

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    the Devils will not play another game at CAA. It's been recently reported that there's a very strong chance that all 41 home games will be sold out next year in the new arena. The devils have never had a fan base problem, but simply a location and facility problem. Gladly, it seems that all the "excuses" and "devils attendance" arguments will be coming to an end soon.
     
  12. EbencoyE

    EbencoyE Registered User

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    .... What?

    "Some teams" get ripped for attendance because they're the only ones not selling out. All the other teams sold out all of their playoff games this year.
     
  13. Exit56

    Exit56 Registered User

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    Oh really? How many playoff games did the Leafs sell out this year?

    The Nets are a joke. My mother works in the ticket office part time at the meadowlands, the Nets have given away literally THOUSANDS of tickets for the regular season and playoffs, between outright freebies, 2 for 1 deals, "family packs", etc. I'd say at least 40% of the people watching the Nets in person are there for half price or less. The Nets can afford that since they have a much better deal with NJSEA than the Devils did in terms of revenues from Concessions, etc.

    It's moot anyway, next year the Devils will have a lot more revenue coming from their arena, and they'll do whatever they need to do to get it as close to full as possible to get people to spend money in other places. This year (and in years past) it hasn't made sense to do that since they got such a small percentage of parking and concession revenues.
     
  14. JR#9*

    JR#9* Guest

    The excuses by NJD fans about the arena is just that....excuses!

    That may fly when looking at the fact that they couldn't sellout even a SINGLE regular season game..even against the NYR's which sends thoudans of their fans into the CAA, but when you come up 4 THOUSAND seats short of a sellout in the 2nd rd of the NHL playoffs then you simply have crappy fan support.

    And the fact that this is the case each and every year with the Devils not being able to sellout for the playoffs is a disgrace when you consider the great 12 yr run they've had in which they have failed to capitalize on as far as growing their fanbase with the success.

    And as I've said many times I think the biggest problem is the anti-entertainment/exciting style that they've played all these yrs.
     
  15. It Kills Me

    It Kills Me Registered User

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    They don't get their money back 'till the season afterwards. They don't get interest on their money either.

    I can understand why people aren't going to the Wings games.

    Too bad by the time Brooklyn gets the Nets (2010 IIRC) they'll suck.
     
  16. Dr.Huxtable*

    Dr.Huxtable* Guest

    All these years?? I guess you forgot about 2000 when they were one of the highest scoring teams in the league and 2001 where they lead the league in GOALS FOR!!

    The Devils are boring is an old argument that holds no water. The Senators went up 1-0 on Buffalo the other night and they trapped the rest of the game allowing Buffalo only 16 shots. Not a mention of the BORING Senators in the Canadian media. People say the Devils have no fans and are boring because they are jealous of the Devils success. That's the bottom line.
     
    Last edited by moderator : May 16, 2007
  17. Rochester22

    Rochester22 Registered User

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    and you my friend are wrong.
     
  18. Lou's Koolaid

    Lou's Koolaid I live here

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    And not to mention in the Devils hayday of trapping and less skill they had their best attendance.
    This time was between 96-99 when players like Steve Thomas and John Maclean were our top scorers. We averaged a resectable 16,000 to 17,000 in those years.
     
  19. taunting canadian

    taunting canadian Registered User

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    Maybe the original poster figured people would be smart enough to figure some things out for themselves without him having to hold their hands? For example, the article excerpt states:

    It doesn't take a genius to realize that this quote indicates that the current arena location in NJ may not be ideal and that the arena location may be important to fans.
     
  20. Fugu

    Fugu Guest


    Yeah, everyone makes it sound like selling 19.5K tickets per game at an average price of $100/ticket isn't much to sneeze at.... Someone do the % calculation here. 19,500 divided by 20,066 (x 100 to get a % of capacity).


    I'm an STH and I believe the refund for late rounds if the Wings failed to advance was promised within 1 month of the end of the last series.
     
  21. Muttley*

    Muttley* Guest

    Considering the Devils have historically suffered from below average attendence, even before people started whining about, "anti-entertainment/exciting style", I would say that your hypothesis is incorrect.
     
  22. Hollywood3

    Hollywood3 Bison/Jet/Moose Fan

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    I can only imagine the hordes of fans who ignore the NHL to watch Anaheim's NFL team every fall.
     
  23. TheMoreYouKnow

    TheMoreYouKnow Registered User

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    I don't see how the Devils and the Red Wings can be compared here. The Devils are in a much different situation.

    I'm still not sure whether it's really a wise decision in any market to basically have a team named after and marketed to the suburbs and not the main city it's based around. The Devils are New Jersey's team but really they are based in the same area as New York's football teams and I doubt the Devils draw much support from South Jersey as I imagine the Devils/Flyers faultline doesn't run far from the Giants/Eagles line so basically the Devils' market consists of the extended suburbs of New York in New Jersey. But at the same time I am sure many people who live in Jersey still identify with New York and root for New York teams? So if New Jersey teams are limited to North Jersey for fans but not even everyone in North Jersey will support them over the respective "proper" New York teams, what are the chances they will build large fanbases in the area?

    Sure, the Devils have a new arena next season and may well sell it out but it's not very logical to claim that will reflect the "real" support of the team whereas the present troubles are just caused by a horrible arena located inconveniently. Everyone knows that a new arena will draw just based on the novelty factor and that it will make fan support look bigger than it really is for a few years.

    No, I think the Devils' problem is a structural problem whereas the Red Wings' ticket problem is a situational one. The Wings are the only hockey team in a pretty big market that is generally more friendly to hockey than most other American markets and they are therefore in a pretty good position. Their recent problems are caused by economic troubles, loss of popular players, team not living up to high expectations for some time and playoff fatigue after a long run, ticket prices not adjusted to changed circumstances but those aren't problems that can't be solved or are really endangering the franchise.
     
  24. mucker*

    mucker* Guest

    Question, what are the ratings for the regular season Wing games?
    How do they compare with Tigers and Pistons reg and playoff ratings?
     
  25. mucker*

    mucker* Guest

    Exactly.
    No doubt the location may hurt, but the Giants and Jets play there and sellout.
    Yes it's weekend, maybe some Monday, and football, but nonetheless the Devils have had a top divison team for almost a decade and have one of the league's lowest attendance.

    I could understand if they had medicore attendance, but to average as low as they did, not sell out until the playoffs, and even then have empty seats, the new arena may maks but won't change the fact the Devils have a very small fanbase that pales in comparison to the Rangers because few people outside NJ would root for the Devils and even in NJ many assciate with being NY and grew up NYR fans.

    The NHL goofed and never should have put three teams in that market.

    Now I wait for the 5 Devils fans excuses.
     

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