Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) VIII - Postseason Edition

[Billdo]

You seriously think Hall would only get a 2.5-3 million dollar raise at most? seriously..? And thats 2.5-3 million above a contract's value that he signed what six years ago?

Taking discounts aside, Hall could get at minimum 10 million with 11 being more realistic.

I just don't see him getting paid THAT much, that's all.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Instead we just signed Brian Rolston to the same contract Gionta got from Montreal and saved zero cap room lol

dat slapper doe

 

[Brodeur]

Damn! Why didn't we take Denis Grot!?

The "I am Grot" shirts would have flown off the shelves!

 

[MartyOwns]

Is Brian Rolston The Most Polarizing Player In Devils History? -an actual thread before the kovy nonsense started

 

[AfroThunder396]

Is Brian Rolston The Most Polarizing Player In Devils History? -an actual thread before the kovy nonsense started

I remember that thread. Muttley's rants about Rolston were great popcorn entertainment.

 

[Bleedred]

Duncan Keith is the most modern day comparable to Scott Stevens. Definitely the most comparable from the post-2005 lockout era.

I don't think he'll age as well as Stevens though, most players really don't. Keith hasn't even played 1000 regular season games yet, while Scotty played all 1635 before his 40th birthday. That's ridiculous. He's arguably the most durable player in the history of the game. Only Ron Francis can be argued as being more durable.

And to think the lockout is what really ended his career. He once said he wanted to play until he was 42, or at least I believe that's what he said. Then the lockout happened and he said he decided to retire because he found what life was like without hockey for a year and wanted to continue to live that way after the lockout ended. He was under contract for 04-05. Think of him possibly playing 2 more years, which he probably could have, if he didn't have any effects from the concussions. He at least probably would have played 04-05 if there were a season, since he was under contract for it.

 

[Born and Raised]

I just don't see him getting paid THAT much, that's all.

It isnt that much... what makes you think you can have a 90+ point Hart contending all star winger for cheap? What would you say to Taylor Hall when Eichel, Toews, Kane, Kopitar, and Price all make 10 and their contracts were signed before his when the cap will be 4-5 million higher?

Hall is breaking double digits for fact unless he chooses to take a massive paycut. Dropping from 10 to 9 million over an eight year deal is a massive chunk of change for a state that taxes like crazy.

If Hall signs for lower than 10 Shero is a god.

 

[Bleedred]

When Evander Kane is getting $7 million per year for 7 years, Hall's gotta get $10 million easy.

Hall is a 74 point per 82 game player in his career, Kane is a 51 point per 82 game player in his career. Even before the season Hall just had, he's still a 69 point per 82 game player.

 

[RSeen]

Hall is not getting less than $10 million. There is no way.

 

[Billdo]

It isnt that much... what makes you think you can have a 90+ point Hart contending all star winger for cheap? What would you say to Taylor Hall when Eichel, Toews, Kane, Kopitar, and Price all make 10 and their contracts were signed before his when the cap will be 4-5 million higher?

Hall is breaking double digits for fact unless he chooses to take a massive paycut. Dropping from 10 to 9 million over an eight year deal is a massive chunk of change for a state that taxes like crazy.

If Hall signs for lower than 10 Shero is a god.

Nobody said anything about him getting a "cheap" deal. I just don't think he's going to get a 10+ deal. That's all.

 

[Zippy316]

I think Hall ends up getting a front loaded deal that takes his AAV down somewhere around 9.5 or lower.

Let's assume he gets an 8 year deal with decreasing salary. A yearly salary of 11, 11, 10.5, 9.5, 9, 9, 8.5, and 8 would put his AAV at 9.5625. I think we see something around that ballpark.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Duncan Keith is the most modern day comparable to Scott Stevens. Definitely the most comparable from the post-2005 lockout era.

I don't think he'll age as well as Stevens though, most players really don't. Keith hasn't even played 1000 regular season games yet, while Scotty played all 1635 before his 40th birthday. That's ridiculous. He's arguably the most durable player in the history of the game. Only Ron Francis can be argued as being more durable.

And to think the lockout is what really ended his career. He once said he wanted to play until he was 42, or at least I believe that's what he said. Then the lockout happened and he said he decided to retire because he found what life was like without hockey for a year and wanted to continue to live that way after the lockout ended. He was under contract for 04-05. Think of him possibly playing 2 more years, which he probably could have, if he didn't have any effects from the concussions. He at least probably would have played 04-05 if there were a season, since he was under contract for it.

Johnny Bucyck played 1540 games over 22 years, retiring at 42 or so. Not quite Scotty’s numbers, but in the discussion, I would think for durability, and I wonder weather the season wasn’t shorter in his early days. Haven’t checked Gordie Howe’s numbers but I will.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Howe - 1687 games over 25 years, retirees when 51 in about 1980.

Actually think Howe and Bucyck reinforce your point. Their careers extend into the modern era so the frame of comparison is not absurd. And if anything the game got much more athletically demanding, bigger and faster during Scotty’s career.

And in comparison with them, Stevens’ numbers hold up amazingly well. I absolutely agree that Stevens is right at the top here. An extraordinary run, nobody you will watch on the NHL network this week even remotely compares. He is legendary, epic in fact in that connection.

 

[devilsfan35]

If we were to somehow sign Tavares I could see hall taking a small pay cut to win in jersey

 

[dzubrus8]

Seems like there are 2 major camps forming: a pro-Tavares and a pro-Carlson (there's also a pro-both and a pro-neither). Just wanted to ask, which would you prefer:

-Sign Tavares ($10m):
Center = Add Tavares, drop Boyle (from starting 12)
Defense = Greene, Butcher, Mueller

Hall - Hischier - Bratt
Johansson - Tavares - Palmieri
Coleman - Zajac - Noesen
Wood - Zacha - Anderson

Greene - Vatanen
Butcher - Santini
Mueller - Severson

or

-Sign Carlson ($7.5m):
Center = Hischier, Zacha, Zajac, Boyle
Defense = Add Carlson, move Severson (potentially for LHD or 2C)

Hall - Hischier - Bratt
Johansson - Zacha - Palmieri
Coleman - Zajac - Noesen
Wood - Boyle - Anderson

Klefbom/Greene - Vatanen
Mueller - Carlson
Butcher - Santini

 

[Devils Dominion]

If we were to somehow sign Tavares I could see hall taking a small pay cut to win in jersey

Lou will not allow him to sign with us.

 

[Emperoreddy]

JT is going to stay with the Islanders in the end. Not worth getting your hopes up about it.

Lou won’t let him leave.

 

[Bleedred]

Howe - 1687 games over 25 years, retirees when 51 in about 1980.

Actually think Howe and Bucyck reinforce your point. Their careers extend into the modern era so the frame of comparison is not absurd. And if anything the game got much more athletically demanding, bigger and faster during Scotty’s career.

And in comparison with them, Stevens’ numbers hold up amazingly well. I absolutely agree that Stevens is right at the top here. An extraordinary run, nobody you will watch on the NHL network this week even remotely compares. He is legendary, epic in fact in that connection.

I think Gordie Howe definitely deserves to be in the conversation too. He retired for a few years and came back, which I knew, but I didn’t realize he played that many games. I’m skeptical we’ll see guys play 1630 games from this era. There seem to be fewer 38-42 year olds in the league now than ever.

 

[Triumph]

I think Geordie Howe definitely deserves to be in the conversation too. He retired for a few years and came back, which I knew, but I didn’t realize he played that many games. I’m skeptical we’ll see guys play 1630 games from this era. There seem to be fewer 38-42 year olds in the league now than ever.

Marleau is at 1575 and he's signed for 2 more years. Thornton is nearing 1500 and he's still a top player. Part of it is that quite frankly, the drafts between 1995 and 2000 were pretty trashy overall and there aren't a ton of HOFers taken in those years. Iginla in 95, Chara in 96, the two aforementioned Sharks and Hossa in 97, Datsyuk maybe in 98, Sedins maybe in 99, no one in 2000, and probably no one from 2001 either (though we may yet see Kovalchuk back in the NHL). It's when we get to guys from the 2003 draft year and then Ovechkin/Malkin and Crosby - these are the players who are likely to maintain careers into their late 30s and early 40s. Someone like Patrice Bergeron is nearing 1000 games played and has shown almost no decline - he's a candidate for 1500+ as well.

 

[Bleedred]

Marleau is at 1575 and he's signed for 2 more years. Thornton is nearing 1500 and he's still a top player. Part of it is that quite frankly, the drafts between 1995 and 2000 were pretty trashy overall and there aren't a ton of HOFers taken in those years. Iginla in 95, Chara in 96, the two aforementioned Sharks and Hossa in 97, Datsyuk maybe in 98, Sedins maybe in 99, no one in 2000, and probably no one from 2001 either (though we may yet see Kovalchuk back in the NHL). It's when we get to guys from the 2003 draft year and then Ovechkin/Malkin and Crosby - these are the players who are likely to maintain careers into their late 30s and early 40s. Someone like Patrice Bergeron is nearing 1000 games played and has shown almost no decline - he's a candidate for 1500+ as well.

When I said this era, I'm not counting guys like Marleau, Thornton and Chara, who started playing in the 90's. I'm skeptical Malkin or Crosby will play 1600 regular season games. This was Malkin's healthiest season in quite a while. He's only played over 70 games twice this decade and even missed 17 games in the lockout season. He's 32 in a couple months and has surprisingly only played 784 games in the regular season. Crosby has played 864. He's been pretty healthy the last several seasons, but he had a lot of concussion problems at the beginning of the decade which made him miss a lot of time. I doubt he'll play 1600 regular season games, but I do think there's a good chance both those players play until they're 40 or possibly early 40's. I think Ovechkin can come close to 1600 games, but he might also fall just short. I think it's safe to pencil in at least one half season lockout before those guys careers end.

I think for the really good players, they usually have no trouble or less trouble finding work in their late 30's and early 40's, but you don't see many middling or crappy players playing until they're 40 anymore. Like when I talked about Sean O'Donnell playing until 40 earlier in the thread. You don't see many players like that playing until they're 37-40 anymore. I think it probably has a lot to do with the fact that GM's are finally catching on that players like that suck and really aren't of any use when they're that age and the game getting faster. A lot of declining guys are starting to be snuffed out of the league by about 35 now.

And Marleau definitely deserves a vote for most durable of all time, or he will when he's done. The guy hasn't missed a game since 2009. He's played over 700 consecutive games now, at ages 30-38.

 

[MartyOwns]

Seems like there are 2 major camps forming: a pro-Tavares and a pro-Carlson (there's also a pro-both and a pro-neither). Just wanted to ask, which would you prefer:

-Sign Tavares ($10m):
Center = Add Tavares, drop Boyle (from starting 12)
Defense = Greene, Butcher, Mueller

Hall - Hischier - Bratt
Johansson - Tavares - Palmieri
Coleman - Zajac - Noesen
Wood - Zacha - Anderson

Greene - Vatanen
Butcher - Santini
Mueller - Severson

or

-Sign Carlson ($7.5m):
Center = Hischier, Zacha, Zajac, Boyle
Defense = Add Carlson, move Severson (potentially for LHD or 2C)

Hall - Hischier - Bratt
Johansson - Zacha - Palmieri
Coleman - Zajac - Noesen
Wood - Boyle - Anderson

Klefbom/Greene - Vatanen
Mueller - Carlson
Butcher - Santini

getting both carlson and tavares is so unrealistic i'm not really giving it any consideration. so, between the two, it's tavares all day

 

[Billdo]

getting both carlson and tavares is so unrealistic i'm not really giving it any consideration. so, between the two, it's tavares all day

Yeah I'd say Tavares without even questioning it.

 

[Smitty426]

Lou is not the same Lou of old! We all thought that punk who went to Minny was staying and Lou let that slip (glad now, but then it was bad). In fact later moves in his career, LL was not as cagey.
JT will probably sign with the NYIs and Lou will have helped (not as much as we all think) but they are a bit of a way from competing (unless major moves are done) and JT wants to win.

 

[Call Me Al]

yeah people compare this to tampa because stamkos stayed, but stamkos was on an extremely successful team during his tenure that had the pieces in place to compete immediately. the islanders don't have that, they've been in perpetual rebuild for his entire tenure. and the islanders arena situation is less than ideal for 3 years... from a personal and professional standpoint he'd be crazy at this point not to at least listen to offers

 

[Call Me Al]

the islanders organization basically failed him by not putting the obvious pieces around him to compete, he doesn't really owe them anything