Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) VIII - Postseason Edition

[Zippy316]

I wouldn't worry too much about Hall's next deal money-wise.

He was on Whitney's podcasts last February (2016-17 season) and basically said he's made a decent amount of money and wants to go to a place where he can win.

I don't see him as the guy looking to sign a big money deal. I think he'd look to sign a reasonable deal to help the team win, whether it's here or anywhere else.

 

[Billdo]

I wouldn't worry too much about Hall's next deal money-wise.

He was on Whitney's podcasts last February (2016-17 season) and basically said he's made a decent amount of money and wants to go to a place where he can win.

I don't see him as the guy looking to sign a big money deal. I think he'd look to sign a reasonable deal to help the team win, whether it's here or anywhere else.

Yeah but he's not signing for 7 mil regardless of whether or not he said that. I'm not worried about any deal he signs though. BTW, Spittin Chiclets podcast is fantastic.

 

[Zippy316]

Yeah but he's not signing for 7 mil regardless of whether or not he said that. I'm not worried about any deal he signs though. BTW, Spittin Chiclets podcast is fantastic.

I'm not saying he's going to take a cheap deal, but I don't expect him to demand Toews/Kane/Kopitar money.

I think he will be closer to Stamkos and maybe a bit more when adjusting for cap ceiling and taxes.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Yeah but he's not signing for 7 mil regardless of whether or not he said that. I'm not worried about any deal he signs though. BTW, Spittin Chiclets podcast is fantastic.

It's by far my favorite. Whit and Biz are hilarious.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I'm not saying he's going to take a cheap deal, but I don't expect him to demand Toews/Kane/Kopitar money.

I think he will be closer to Stamkos and maybe a bit more when adjusting for cap ceiling and taxes.

$9 million could get it done, but if he has another Hart level year it almost definitely becomes $10.

 

[Billdo]

It's by far my favorite. Whit and Biz are hilarious.

I just recently started listening to it and it's the only Podcast I listen to. I love it.

 

[D3vilsH0ck3y]

any interest in a discounted McDonagh? Only half kidding

 

[Brooklyndevil]

any interest in a discounted McDonagh? Only half kidding

I think McD peeked already and is on the down turn. I wouldn’t pay him a big contract with term. Plus I doubt he would ever sign with us . No big loss.

 

[Billdo]

any interest in a discounted McDonagh? Only half kidding

I would be.

 

[devilsblood]

Does Ray have an internal cap?

In as much that he knows he has to pay the young guys a couple years from now I think he does.

Outside of bringing in a real difference maker, I don't think there is even a need to bring in much via free agency.

Maintain flexibility.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

We have more cap flexibility than we even know what to do with. It seems like I have posted it 100x by this point, but we really do not need to be worried about the cap at all, and thats even with bringing in one "larger" piece this offseason...

 

[Zezel22]

And with its current governor that sure as **** isn't happening

Hall is an immigrant so Murphy may indeed make an exception.

 

[devilsblood]

any interest in a discounted McDonagh? Only half kidding

At this point in their respective careers he is certainly an upgrade over Greene, he can play tough minutes, he can play the pk, he can play PP(though we prob wouldn't use him for that).

Turns 29 next month. I guess a 3 year deal, but he could get a 4-5 year deal from someone, and no way I do that.

Only caveat would be if Shero is confident that Mueller can take a big step fwd. And while that is a big if, a McDonagh type is not that difficult to find down the road, so it might be worth it to take the chance on Mueller and if he flops then look to upgrade the position.

I'm probably in the minority but if we go into next year with the Greene Mueller Butcher down the left side it says to me he has confidence that Mueller and Butcher can play bigger roles, and I'm Ok with seeing how that plays out.

 

[devilsblood]

We have more cap flexibility than we even know what to do with. It seems like I have posted it 100x by this point, but we really do not need to be worried about the cap at all, and thats even with bringing in one "larger" piece this offseason...

yes now we do, but that will change, especially if we go signing multiple ufa's.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

We have more cap flexibility than we even know what to do with. It seems like I have posted it 100x by this point, but we really do not need to be worried about the cap at all, and thats even with bringing in one "larger" piece this offseason...

This. The flexibility we have moving forward is literally unprecedented for this organization.

I don't even think it's a stretch to say we have the best cap situation in the league.

 

[Smitty426]

At this point in their respective careers he is certainly an upgrade over Greene, he can play tough minutes, he can play the pk, he can play PP(though we prob wouldn't use him for that).

Turns 29 next month. I guess a 3 year deal, but he could get a 4-5 year deal from someone, and no way I do that.

Only caveat would be if Shero is confident that Mueller can take a big step fwd. And while that is a big if, a McDonagh type is not that difficult to find down the road, so it might be worth it to take the chance on Mueller and if he flops then look to upgrade the position.

I'm probably in the minority but if we go into next year with the Greene Mueller Butcher down the left side it says to me he has confidence that Mueller and Butcher can play bigger roles, and I'm Ok with seeing how that plays out.

I think there may be some truth to this (not sure I like it though). Butcher played well and did not get overwhelmed (yay Hynes) Mueller had the injury and we know he can skate. If the Worlds were any indication Mirco will be ready to go and take on more. This article was encouraging:
A confident Mirco Mueller is playing
My only issue is at some point we need a top LHD, not a #1 per se, but a workhorse. The rebuild is quicker than we expected, the changes should then be as well.

 

[devilsblood]

I think there may be some truth to this (not sure I like it though). Butcher played well and did not get overwhelmed (yay Hynes) Mueller had the injury and we know he can skate. If the Worlds were any indication Mirco will be ready to go and take on more. This article was encouraging:
A confident Mirco Mueller is playing
My only issue is at some point we need a top LHD, not a #1 per se, but a workhorse. The rebuild is quicker than we expected, the changes should then be as well.

And McDonagh could certainly play the workhorse role, even if he is not a legit top pair guy.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

My only issue is at some point we need a top LHD, not a #1 per se, but a workhorse. The rebuild is quicker than we expected, the changes should then be as well.

I don't quite agree here - getting caught up in a fast-moving rebuild and making hasty transactions to match the speed is a good way to ruin the cap flexibility Shero has created.

The need for a LHD workhorse is definitely there, don't get me wrong. But unless a transaction surfaces that aligns with Shero's big picture approach, I wouldn't rush anything.

 

[devilsblood]

This. The flexibility we have moving forward is literally unprecedented for this organization.

I don't even think it's a stretch to say we have the best cap situation in the league.

But we have a ton of guys who will be getting new contracts in the next 3 offseasons.

Starts this year with Wood , Coleman and Sanitni. Throw Noesen in there if you like. Next year, Butcher, Zacha, and Mueller are up. Mojo too perhaps. Then in the 2020 offseason you have the big one with Hall, Nico, Vat's, and Bratt. And imo you really have to have an eye towards that offseason when making deals this and next offseason.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

here goes again. I have made a couple assumptions throughout this, but I think I was more than fair.

Lets assume the cap will be $80 million (all reports put it between $78-82 million, so lets use an average). Using an $80 million cap, we have ~$25 million in cap space available.

Here are the NHL players signed for the 2018-19 season (16 total):

FORWARDS (8)
Taylor Hall
Travis Zajac
Kyle Palmieri
Marcus Johansson
Brian Boyle
Nico Hischier
Pavel Zacha
Jesper Bratt

DEFENSEMAN (6)
Andy Greene
Sami Vatanen
Damon Severson
Ben Lovejoy
Will Butcher
Mirco Mueller

GOALIES (2)
Cory Schneider
Keith Kinkaid

We have 4 "notable" RFAs this summer:

Miles Wood
Stefan Noesen
Blake Coleman
Steve Santini

I think a very fair estimate for what these 4 players will earn will be in the ~$6 million range combined. That leaves us with ~$19 million in remaining space and brings our roster up to 20 players. Three roster slots available. We can assume we will likely have 1-2 scrubs like Hayes or Stafford (or someone like McLeod from within) signed for league minimum to be an extra. So lets say ~$17 million (being conservative) in space for 1 roster slot. Lets HYPOTHETICALLY say we signed John Tavares to $10 million/year. This leaves us with $7 million remaining.

After the 2018-19 season, the following comes off of the salary cap:
Brian Boyle ($2.75 million)
Ben Lovejoy ($2.67 million)
Marcus Johansson ($4.58 million)
Keith Kinkaid ($1.25 million)

~$11.25 million total coming off the books next offseason. Now, I realize that we will likely want Johansson back (assuming he has a decent year) and we will need to bring in a backup goalie, but thats another decent chunk of change opening up. But keep in mind that Butcher and Zacha (and Mueller if he progresses) will need at least minimal raises. Lets assume that this additional $11.25 million cancels out when you consider raises/extensions to the players listed previously. This is probably being way conservative, but still. This leaves us still with ~$7 million in space.

After the 19-20 season is when Shero will have work to do. Hall, Vatanen, Hischier, and Bratt need new contracts. However, Andy Greene's $5 million drops off after 19-20. You can probably almost totally cover the raises to Hall/Vatanen with Greene's expiring $$...it will probably be a bit more than that, but it will be close. Its tough to guesstimate on what Nico/Bratt combined will get, but remember we still have the cushion listed previously. We also have not taken into account any raises to the cap, which are almost surely going to happen.



tl:dr- we are in amazing shape cap wise and can absolutely afford to add at least one "big" contract to the fold.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

But we have a ton of guys who will be getting new contracts in the next 3 offseasons.

Starts this year with Wood , Coleman and Sanitni. Throw Noesen in there if you like. Next year, Butcher, Zacha, and Mueller are up. Mojo too perhaps. Then in the 2020 offseason you have the big one with Hall, Nico, Vat's, and Bratt. And imo you really have to have an eye towards that offseason when making deals this and next offseason.

A lot of the guys you named aren't going to be getting contracts of consequence. Hall will obviously get the fattest deal, but I don't anticipate his extension to be more than a ~$4M increase in AAV. Vatanen is already at $4.875M, and I don't expect his raise to be more than ~$2M. Nico will likely get the largest raise out of the bunch due to his ELC status, but I don't think his next contract will be his "big" one.

Then consider that Greene and Zajac will likely take pay cuts on their next deals... and we'll recoup $5M+ when Lovejoy and Boyle come off the books... there really isn't much to worry about. At all.

 

[devilsblood]

See you talk of expiring contracts, without filling those holes. When Greene goes we will need to fill that spot. When Boyle goes we will need to fill that spot. Even if it's a cheaper contract it's not like the full cost of that contract opens up.

Which is not to say I'm not open to going after Tavares. That's a deal you make and then work around that down the road. But even for a player of his ability, there is limits, you have to be smart. Remember Shero wants to maintain flexibility, not just have it now.

 

[devilsblood]

A lot of the guys you named aren't going to be getting contracts of consequence. Hall will obviously get the fattest deal, but I don't anticipate his extension to be more than a ~$4M increase in AAV. Vatanen is already at $4.875M, and I don't expect his raise to be more than ~$2M. Nico will likely get the largest raise out of the bunch due to his ELC status, but I don't think his next contract will be his "big" one.

Then consider that Greene and Zajac will likely take pay cuts on their next deals... and we'll recoup $5M+ when Lovejoy and Boyle come off the books... there really isn't much to worry about. At all.

Again, when Lovejoy and Boyle come off, we will need to fill those spots. Those expiring contracts even if we fill those spots with young kids open up maybe half that amount.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

See you talk of expiring contracts, without filling those holes. When Greene goes we will need to fill that spot. When Boyle goes we will need to fill that spot. Even if it's a cheaper contract it's not like the full cost of that contract opens up.

Which is not to say I'm not open to going after Tavares. That's a deal you make and then work around that down the road. But even for a player of his ability, there is limits, you have to be smart. Remember Shero wants to maintain flexibility, not just have it now.

if we sign Tavares, we have no need to fill Boyle's spot. Tavares, Nico, Zajac, Zacha, Coleman would be our centers.

Santini also fills Lovejoy's spot.

 

[devilsblood]

if we sign Tavares, we have no need to fill Boyle's spot. Tavares, Nico, Zajac, Zacha, Coleman would be our centers.

Santini also fills Lovejoy's spot.

We would still need a 7th d-man.

But true on Boyle.

Let's go back to this.

"After the 2018-19 season, the following comes off of the salary cap:
Brian Boyle ($2.75 million)
Ben Lovejoy ($2.67 million)
Marcus Johansson ($4.58 million)
Keith Kinkaid ($1.25 million)

~$11.25 million total coming off the books next offseason. Now, I realize that we will likely want Johansson back (assuming he has a decent year) and we will need to bring in a backup goalie, but thats another decent chunk of change opening up. But keep in mind that Butcher and Zacha (and Mueller if he progresses) will need at least minimal raises. Lets assume that this additional $11.25 million cancels out when you consider raises/extensions to the players listed previously. This is probably being way conservative, but still. This leaves us still with ~$7 million in space."

Let's say we do resign Mojo to his current deal, and Kink or whomever for back up goalie at same price, and then a 7th d-man for a million. How much cleared out? less then $4mil.