Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) VII - Playoff push; read warning in OP first

[BenedictGomez]

we got a better defenseman since then in Vatanen (please don't tell me you think Vatanen is not better than Larsson).

No, Vatanen > Larsson.

I don't think Larsson is as bad as he does, but I also don't think he's all that good either. He makes a good point about the ''Safe'' thing.

Well, "safe" is a BIG part of an NHL defenseman's main job.

Being "safe" is why Lovejoy is playing and why Severson is watching from the rafters.

Defenseman who are "safe" dont lose games, and dont get their coaches fired, and coaches tend to value that.

 

[Bleedred]

No, Vatanen > Larsson.



Well, "safe" is a BIG part of an NHL defenseman's main job.

Being "safe" is why Lovejoy is playing and why Severson is watching from the rafters.

Defenseman who are "safe" dont lose games, and dont get their coaches fired, and coaches tend to value that.

I think Lovejoy (in a bottom pairing role) is a good ''Safe'' defenseman. He's probably lost a couple steps the last several seasons though. Andy Greene (before the last year or two) was kind of a safe defenseman. He was more skilled than most guys that I would use to describe as ''Safe''. I thought Mark Fayne was a good safe defenseman, but I haven't kept up with him in Edmonton or AHL Edmonton, but when he was still here he was good. Not worth the contract he got, but he was good.

Volchenkov (at least after he got here), Seth Helgeson? God forbid Mark Fraser? No way.

 

[My3Sons]

At one point earlier in the season Sevs was playing well as was Moore. I’ll leave it to someone more knowledgeable about trends to explain what went wrong. Was it just a “go for broke” effort that biased their games towards risk taking or was something else at work? I’m surprised they both regressed as much as it appears. With healthy young guys that suggests something systemic at work.

 

[Cage Helmet]

If you want to say Larsson is a disappointment for a #4 overall pick, fine, that's one thing.

But to say Damon Severson is a better NHL defenseman than Adam Larsson tells me you dont ever tune into Edmonton Oilers games. That's just silly talk.

I’ve caught a few games out there and I’m just not at all impressed with Larsson. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying he’s terrible, just that he isn’t the top pairing stud that many touted him up to be. I really think Larsson isn’t even as good as Daneyko was in his prime. I’m not sure if that’s an insult or a compliment to #3. He was a pretty good middle-bottom pairing defender up until about 2000, and maybe a good bottom pairing defender from 00-02.

 

[NJDevs26]

Well it's a good thing Ward found the best use for Hall at least since Hall is pretty much the PP (he himself has scored or assisted on 37 of the 54 PP goals this season, and that doesn't include goals he was on the ice for and didn't get a point).

 

[Triumph]

I’ve caught a few games out there and I’m just not at all impressed with Larsson. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying he’s terrible, just that he isn’t the top pairing stud that many touted him up to be. I really think Larsson isn’t even as good as Daneyko was in his prime. I’m not sure if that’s an insult or a compliment to #3. He was a pretty good middle-bottom pairing defender up until about 2000, and maybe a good bottom pairing defender from 00-02.

I'm not going to compare Larsson to Daneyko - they played in different eras. What I will say is that when I see Edmonton play is that Larsson is a now off-the-glass D when he came to the NHL as an up-the-middle guy. The Devils coached him out of making difficult passes on the breakout and now he seldom tries it. This combined with his skating speed and poor shot release means that he is seldom helping out the offense in any real way. Good guy in front of the net and along the boards and he can break plays up at the blueline well, but he's now as 'safe' as they come, and that isn't all that valuable to me.

 

[njdevils19]

Calling the passes to the slot blind passes is probably the wrong wording. They aren't really blind passes but they also aren't passes where the player moving the puck is exactly sure where the defenders are relative to the person they are passing the puck to.

Dano, in his way of speaking, has made it clear it makes him nervous. I think it has it's place in today's nhl and can help relieve pressure. It can be a dangerous pass though and it's not crazy to think that it could be the difference in one of these games. It's a pass most nhl teams make now so it's not going away. It just needs to be on the tape and there needs to be great communication between the players about when to do it.

 

[glenwo2]

Bah. Hall is just being nice and throwing Ward a bone.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

 

[Bleedred]

I keep thinking about that scene in Raging Bull where Jake LaMotta asks his brother if he's been having sex with his wife. And his brother (played by Joe Pesci) asks something like ''Where do you get your balls to ask me something like that? How big are your balls to ask me something like that? I'm not even gonna answer it, it's a sick question and I'm not gonna answer it''

I feel like that's what most GM's would say after Shero asked for Taylor Hall in exchange for Adam Larsson.

Sounds like a trade board thread gone bad. One that gets the OP flamed and is promptly locked after about 18 posts.

 

[Jets012]

I'm not going to compare Larsson to Daneyko - they played in different eras. What I will say is that when I see Edmonton play is that Larsson is a now off-the-glass D when he came to the NHL as an up-the-middle guy. The Devils coached him out of making difficult passes on the breakout and now he seldom tries it. This combined with his skating speed and poor shot release means that he is seldom helping out the offense in any real way. Good guy in front of the net and along the boards and he can break plays up at the blueline well, but he's now as 'safe' as they come, and that isn't all that valuable to me.

This is correct. There's dozens of defenseman who can do this in the NHL. And to be honest, like you said, these guys don't help you win games. They're just play absorbers IMO. Won't do anything too negative, but you're not going to win with a team full of these guys IMO. Because the best teams don't have defensive cores filled with these type of guys.

Larsson is one of the more overrated defenseman I've seen on this board. It's an absolute joke we got Hall for him. That trade was better for us than most of our fan base thinks.

 

[Bleedred]

This is correct. There's dozens of defenseman who can do this in the NHL. And to be honest, like you said, these guys don't help you win games. They're just play absorbers IMO. Won't do anything too negative, but you're not going to win with a team full of these guys IMO. Because the best teams don't have defensive cores filled with these type of guys.

Larsson is one of the more overrated defenseman I've seen on this board. It's an absolute joke we got Hall for him. That trade was better for us than most of our fan base thinks.

It's the worst trade that I can think of in the last decade and I remember thinking JVR for Luke Schenn was pitiful at the time, which was a similar type of trade. A pretty good former lottery pick forward from 5 years prior (not as good as Hall though) traded for a former lottery pick defenseman from 5 years earlier. Sound familiar?

Everyone says Gomez for McDonagh, but how many people back in 2009 were saying that McDonagh was gonna be really good and Gomez was gonna fall off a cliff a year or two later? Gomez was still a 60-ish point guy his last season on the Rangers and maintained that in his first year with the Habs, before collapsing in his second year there.

 

[NJDevs26]

It's the worst trade that I can think of in the last decade and I remember thinking JVR for Luke Schenn was pitiful at the time, which was a similar type of trade. A pretty good former lottery pick forward from 5 years prior (not as good as Hall though) traded for a former lottery pick defenseman from 5 years earlier. Sound familiar?

Everyone says Gomez for McDonagh, but how many people back in 2009 were saying that McDonagh was gonna be really good and Gomez was gonna fall off a cliff a year or two later? Gomez was still a 60-ish point guy his last season on the Rangers and maintained that in his first year with the Habs, before collapsing in his second year there.

Forsberg for Erat lol

 

[Whaddagoal]

It's the worst trade that I can think of in the last decade and I remember thinking JVR for Luke Schenn was pitiful at the time, which was a similar type of trade. A pretty good former lottery pick forward from 5 years prior (not as good as Hall though) traded for a former lottery pick defenseman from 5 years earlier. Sound familiar?

Everyone says Gomez for McDonagh, but how many people back in 2009 were saying that McDonagh was gonna be really good and Gomez was gonna fall off a cliff a year or two later? Gomez was still a 60-ish point guy his last season on the Rangers and maintained that in his first year with the Habs, before collapsing in his second year there.

Panarin for Saad?

 

[Bleedred]

Both of those were pretty bad, but I still think Hall for Larsson was really bad.

Panarin for Saad was bad, but at least Saad is a little bit closer to Panarin than Larsson is to Hall, adjusted for difference in position.

 

[Billdo]

Panarin for Saad?

Ours is still worse