Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) III

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MartyOwns

thank you shero
Apr 1, 2007
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This team acquired it's best player by trading a young dman for them. We got Hall by trading our best defenseman, at the time, for him.

If we can acquire a player like Hoffman and use Santini as a piece in that acquisition, you do it.

I like Santini, and I think he is a solid young physical prescience on the back end and could possibly work on his offensive game, or could have better 5 on 5 possession numbers playing with a better dman than Greene, but we have our top 4 on the right side already solidified with Vatanen and Severson. We also have two guys in Butcher and Mueller that are completely capable of playing LD or RD.

Hoffman would be another dangerous piece in the top 6 thanks to his speed and that shot of his.

we did, although i’d argue larsson wasn’t our best defenseman, but it’s irrelevant because santini isn’t our best defenseman now. anyway, that’s true, but not something you want to make a habit of. santini could very well be a legitimate top-4 defenseman someday, and those are more valuable than wingers to me.

don’t get me wrong- if we had hall and hoffman on this team, we wouldn’t see another ‘our 2nd line isn’t working’ posts until their contracts ran out. but i wouldn’t want to sacrifice any young defensemen right now. just my opinion.

i agree with @Nubmer6 in that we have a lot of defensemen, but i’m not counting any chickens before they’re hatched, even with severson. i made that mistake already with the gelinas/urbom/merrill years. that said, i fully acknowledge the results these past few years are better than the urbom squad
 
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Better Call Sal

Salnalysis
Nov 24, 2011
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This is exactly why, in my eyes, I think the asking price is too steep for us for a guy like Hoffman. We need to try and keep our younger d-men because that's the area we should try and build up going forward. Guys like Severson and Santini should only be moved for the absolute right price. As much as I like Hoffman, I don't think we should move Santini for him.

Ideally, we come away with a good young defender in this upcoming draft, and then maybe weigh your options from there.
 
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devilsblood

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For reference Hall was fined $5k but Tom Wilson got no penalty, suspension, or fine for this hit.



So I’m ok if people are a little flabbergasted at Hall’s fine.

Difference being the distance from the boards. The hit on Moore seemed pretty routine. Where as Halls hit because it was 3-4 ft off the board, and at high speed is much more dangerous.

Even if Moore was hurt while Okposo was not.
 

Better Call Sal

Salnalysis
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Also, while it's easy to point out that we dealt Larsson, keep in mind that we were getting an elite top 10 winger (Top 5?) for just Adam Larsson. Scoring was an issue at the time and our focus was revamping our forward group to make it a strength.

Fast forward to now, with the inclusion of the young forwards with the Hall, Palmieri and Johansson trades, we're 14th in goals for per game but have also given up the 13th most goals for. We're now in need of upgrading the backend. While it would be great to add a goal scorer like Hoffman to fill in, we shouldn't be looking to deal a young potential top 4 defender plus for him. More than likely, we would make a deal for a cheap veteran winger to stabilize the bottom 6 if anything, as Zippy mentioned.
 

The 29th Pick

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He's not just a winger. He'd be the clear second best winger on the team and probably the best goal scorer on the team. But with Santini, his role in NJ now and probably in the future is kind of in question. Do we think he's ever going to be a better option than Severson at even strength? I don't think that's ever going to be the case. Same question with Vatanen...Probably not. So he's likely destined for 3rd pairing even strength time.

Generally I would agree, trading a dman for a winger is not the way to go given the composition of the roster...But a great offensive player like Hoffman for a guy that is behind at least two guys on the right defensive depth chart and isn't even getting in over Lovejoy? There's a discussion to be had.

only in your mind
 

SteveCangialosi123

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Feb 17, 2012
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This is exactly why, in my eyes, I think the asking price is too steep for us for a guy like Hoffman. We need to try and keep our younger d-men because that's the area we should try and build up going forward. Guys like Severson and Santini should only be moved for the absolute right price. As much as I like Hoffman, I don't think we should move Santini for him.

Ideally, we come away with a good young defender in this upcoming draft, and then maybe weigh your options from there.
All fair. But other than Santini, I don’t see anyone on the team that has value and wouldn’t cripple our current/future depth if we moved them. Bratt and Butcher are nonstarters. Same with McLeod and Zacha. And no one else really has much value. Santini probably doesn’t even have enough without adding a bit more.
 

SteveCangialosi123

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only in your mind
He literally didn’t play in a game in which we dressed 7 defenseman. As the roster stands, we have 4 NHL caliber left handed defensemen (one of which can also play on the right side) and 2 right handed dmen that are quite a bit better than him and both young. He certainly will play a role on the team in the future. How big of a role is certainly in question. Do you not see the logjam forming on the back end? Especially if we resign Moore?
 

Better Call Sal

Salnalysis
Nov 24, 2011
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All fair. But other than Santini, I don’t see anyone on the team that has value and wouldn’t cripple our current/future depth if we moved them. Bratt and Butcher are nonstarters. Same with McLeod and Zacha. And no one else really has much value. Santini probably doesn’t even have enough without adding a bit more.

I would agree that he's probably our most valuable trade asset to make a bigger move. Simply my preference to hang onto him for now. It'll be interesting to see how things play out in the offseason because somebody will have to go from the NHL group. The easiest thing would be to simply let Moore walk. If they bring him back, you have to think they'd make some kind of move.

Man, I'm thinking way too far ahead. :laugh:
 

The 29th Pick

Still Alive !
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He literally didn’t play in a game in which we dressed 7 defenseman. As the roster stands, we have 4 NHL caliber left handed defensemen (one of which can also play on the right side) and 2 right handed dmen that are quite a bit better than him and both young. He certainly will play a role on the team in the future. How big of a role is certainly in question. Do you not see the logjam forming on the back end? Especially if we resign Moore?
He's part of the future, we presently have too many D men, and the trade deadline is nearing
 

SteveCangialosi123

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He's part of the future, we presently have too many D men, and the trade deadline is nearing
I don’t see anyone trading for Lovejoy. The organization clearly likes Moore so I’m inclined to believe that he’ll be resigned next season though I’m not a huge fan. And no one else is being moved.
 

The 29th Pick

Still Alive !
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I don’t see anyone trading for Lovejoy. The organization clearly likes Moore so I’m inclined to believe that he’ll be resigned next season though I’m not a huge fan. And no one else is being moved.
well I cant argue with you, you seem to have inside info. Just keep us informed on other moves Shero will/wont make, Thanks
 

SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
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well I cant argue with you, you seem to have inside info. Just keep us informed on other moves Shero will/wont make, Thanks
5mXed.gif
 

Bleedred

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I don’t think I’m trading Moore... if anything I’m inclined to re-sign him.
I've already said that I'm not really into re-signing him because if we do, that means we can't upgrade the defense without giving away one of the others.

Letting Moore go and using his spot to upgrade just makes the most sense. And we either buyout Lovejoy or permanently demote him to #7 for the last year of his deal.
 

MadDevil

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I like Hoffman, but I don't think I'd move Santini for him. Plus Hoffman is a LW no? I think RW is a bigger need at the moment.
 

Cult of Hynes

Hynes is never wrong.
Nov 9, 2010
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It is just more Severson can’t do anything wrong and Santini sucks garbage that has been proven wrong weeks ago.

Trading Santini would be as dumb as trading Severson. He is in no way expendable.

He's actually pretty expendable. He's already a solid bottom pairing dman that could possibly be a top 4 defenseman with a bit more work. And no, trading him wouldn't be as foolish as trading Severson. Saying that is putting them on equal footing when Severson is a better player and more valuable to the team.

Santini hasn't shown he can be a top 4 dman yet since he has only struggled in that position.

It doesn't help he is playing with an aging player like Greene who is equally as bad in a top 4 role, but Santini is the most expendable dman given how the team has Butcher and Mueller, and either one of them are capable of playing on the right side where Santini would have a place. We also have Lovejoy who honestly hasn't been horrible in the bottom pairing role. It's hard to take him out when he has been pretty solid (aside from that shitty pinch in Boston). I do think Santini is better than Lovejoy, but his cap hit also makes him expendable.

So being defensively solid and at the very least a bottom pairing dman in his early 20s with a low cap hit with some potential top 4 upside does make him the most expendable dman on the team.

Trading Santini would be a step backwards for the team. He is one of the better defensive defenseman on the team when used properly. Still not sure how Lovejoy is in over him.

It wouldn't be a step backwards if it could net us a top 6 forward that has a ton of speed and a great shot that can pot you 25-30 goals a season for the next few years. There are 5 dmen on the current d core that aren't even in their 30s yet. And There are two defenseman playing over Santini right now. Mueller and Lovejoy.

we did, although i’d argue larsson wasn’t our best defenseman, but it’s irrelevant because santini isn’t our best defenseman now. anyway, that’s true, but not something you want to make a habit of. santini could very well be a legitimate top-4 defenseman someday, and those are more valuable than wingers to me.

don’t get me wrong- if we had hall and hoffman on this team, we wouldn’t see another ‘our 2nd line isn’t working’ posts until their contracts ran out. but i wouldn’t want to sacrifice any young defensemen right now. just my opinion.

i agree with @Nubmer6 in that we have a lot of defensemen, but i’m not counting any chickens before they’re hatched, even with severson. i made that mistake already with the gelinas/urbom/merrill years. that said, i fully acknowledge the results these past few years are better than the urbom squad

A top 6 scoring winger is more valuable than a bottom pairing dman that may have more upside than his current playing level suggests. If a trade can be made using Santini to get Hoffman you make it. You don't hold onto him just because of what ifs. You go with what you need. This team needs more consistent scoring that can be placed on another line.

Lets see, what's the better idea, holding onto a what if, or using that what if to get a proven top 6 goal scoring winger?

You're hoping Santini becomes something more, kind of like how people kept hoping that Gelinas, Merrill and Urbom became more than what they are.
That is just as bad as counting your chickens before they hatch.

It's also just being too afraid to make a move because of past screw ups.

This is exactly why, in my eyes, I think the asking price is too steep for us for a guy like Hoffman. We need to try and keep our younger d-men because that's the area we should try and build up going forward. Guys like Severson and Santini should only be moved for the absolute right price. As much as I like Hoffman, I don't think we should move Santini for him.

Ideally, we come away with a good young defender in this upcoming draft, and then maybe weigh your options from there.

One of these things is not like the other. Some of you are overrating the living hell out of Santini.
 
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Billdo

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I've already said that I'm not really into re-signing him because if we do, that means we can't upgrade the defense without giving away one of the others.

Letting Moore go and using his spot to upgrade just makes the most sense. And we either buyout Lovejoy or permanently demote him to #7 for the last year of his deal.

I just don’t see a substantial enough upgrade available without making a trade that could just as easily hurt us.
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
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Santini already is a top 4 Dman. It isn’t upside, he already is.

He isn’t playing because Hynes is an idiot and doesn’t ever seem to want to ice our best 6 D.

D is more valuable then wingers. We are absolutely in no position defensively to think top 4 D are suddenly expendable. That is crazy talk.
 
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