Prospect Info: Detroit Red Wings Prospect Tracker Part III

[Martinez]

The NHL app just put out it's top list of Red Wings prospects:

https://www.nhl.com/app/news/detroit-red-wings-prospect-watch/c-290626566?tid=290471364

It has Svechnikov at 1, Hronek is 2, like ours, then so forth. Not surprising to see Rasmussen so low.

Short and sweet but I like those rankings. Writer clearly pays attention to more than just draft position (or at least reads hf boards )

 

[Pavels Dog]

The NHL app just put out it's top list of Red Wings prospects:

https://www.nhl.com/app/news/detroit-red-wings-prospect-watch/c-290626566?tid=290471364

It has Svechnikov at 1, Hronek is 2, like ours, then so forth. Not surprising to see Rasmussen so low.

4th isn't that low. They're basically rating Saarijarvi higher than we are, otherwise the same. Given that Svech/Hronek/VS are all great prospects it's no knock on Rass to be 4th.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

4th isn't that low. They're basically rating Saarijarvi higher than we are, otherwise the same. Given that Svech/Hronek/VS are all great prospects it's no knock on Rass to be 4th.

I mean it's appropriate, but the 9th overall pick should not be 4th on our overall depth chart.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I mean it's appropriate, but the 9th overall pick should not be 4th on our overall depth chart.

Rasmussen absolutely should be our 3rd or 4th best prospect. It's where he belongs. However it's pretty bad for 9th OA. If we had drafted Necas or Vilardi they'd have been #1 on my list, and I don't think they'd be worse than 3 on anyone's

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Rasmussen absolutely should be our 3rd or 4th best prospect. It's where he belongs. However it's pretty bad for 9th OA. If we had drafted Necas or Vilardi they'd have been #1 on my list, and I don't think they'd be worse than 3 on anyone's

Bingo.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I mean it's appropriate, but the 9th overall pick should not be 4th on our overall depth chart.

I'd have a problem with it if the top 3 guys weren't really good prospects further along in development.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I have a problem with it. Hey I would have picked Necas ahead of him, but again Rasmussen was actually ahead of him in most draft rankings I saw. I guess it would be up to this author but there is a really good chance Necas is also four in these rankings so I don't know how much to get fired up about.

I have Rasmussen as our top prospect. But for me it is splitting hairs between Rasmussen, Hronek and Svechnikov. I don't have Vili in my top 5 so I disagree with his placement here pretty strongly.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Necas or someone would have been #2 at worst because a lot of people voted for Rasmussen solely because he was the highest pick we had since the early 90s. Anyone else in the range would be more exciting then Rasmussen really

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Necas or someone would have been #2 at worst because a lot of people voted for Rasmussen solely because he was the highest pick we had since the early 90s. Anyone else in the range would be more exciting then Rasmussen really

Well good news almost all of the scouts and scouting services had Rasmussen ranked above Necas. So maybe there is a strange backlash going on around here to just be angry.

I have no idea why people outwardly hate the Rasmussen pick other than to be angry. He was a consensus top 10 pick that went in the top 10. Again while I liked Necas more entering the draft, it doesn't mean a player often ranked above him was a bad pick at all.

I voted for Rasmussen because at 6'5 he ranked among the best in the skating drills, is a goal scoring machine in the area people score in and has a lot of skills and tools that we haven't had in a long-time. Time will tell but he is an exciting prospect, I hope he has a big first half so we can stop talking about this.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Well good news almost all of the scouts and scouting services had Rasmussen ranked above Necas. So maybe there is a strange backlash going on around here to just be angry.

I have no idea why people outwardly hate the Rasmussen pick other than to be angry. He was a consensus top 10 pick that went in the top 10. Again while I liked Necas more entering the draft, it doesn't mean a player often ranked above him was a bad pick at all.

I voted for Rasmussen because at 6'5 he ranked among the best in the skating drills, is a goal scoring machine in the area people score in and has a lot of skills and tools that we haven't had in a long-time. Time will tell but he is an exciting prospect, I hope he has a big first half so we can stop talking about this.

The one thing Detroit needs is playmaking centers.

Rasmussen isn't that, and yet another left handed player.

If you voted for Rasmussen because of size, then you are missing the point.

 

[lomekian]

The one thing Detroit needs is playmaking centers.

Rasmussen isn't that, and yet another left handed player.

If you voted for Rasmussen because of size, then you are missing the point.

And if you didn't vote for him because he's not a playmaker or a right hander, you are also missing the point.

Having him below Saarijarvi is a farce. He's almost as effective comparative positional output wise, and is 2 years younger, and is 8 inches taller and significantly heavier, and scores most of his points in the areas where most points are scored at the NHL level.

Personally, I had him below 3 players that were picked after him, but that would still have him as 12th OA pick, which is below most of his rankings. Pedigree wise for his age and effectiveness to date, Larkin and Mantha are the only wings picks in a quarter of a century who one could make an argument for having higher generally perceived probable upside at draft time, and even then it would be clutching straws.

I can buy Svech after an impressive AHL debut season and Hronek due to his dominance offensively at CHL level as being ahead of Rasmussen, but any other prospect on our chart has to be behind him. Need wise, it was a bit of a strange pick, but in terms of talent and upside, not so much.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Well good news almost all of the scouts and scouting services had Rasmussen ranked above Necas. So maybe there is a strange backlash going on around here to just be angry.

I have no idea why people outwardly hate the Rasmussen pick other than to be angry. He was a consensus top 10 pick that went in the top 10. Again while I liked Necas more entering the draft, it doesn't mean a player often ranked above him was a bad pick at all.

I voted for Rasmussen because at 6'5 he ranked among the best in the skating drills, is a goal scoring machine in the area people score in and has a lot of skills and tools that we haven't had in a long-time. Time will tell but he is an exciting prospect, I hope he has a big first half so we can stop talking about this.

I generally agree with your opinions on prospects so honestly you're impression of Rasmussen is perhaps the biggest thing making me optimistic about him. I really really hated the pick and he was one of the guys going into the draft that I really really didn't want. I think you know the reasons people dislike Rasmussen but I'll lay them out because I think there are reasons to dislike the pick besides just wanting to be angry.

Most of the complaints stem from one trend in his stats. He didn't put up many points at even strength and almost no assists at even strength (I've been having a hard time finding the stat again but I think he had 3 primary ES assists which is astonishing really). Generally PP scoring translates less well to the NHL than ES scoring. Furthermore his lack of primary assists in general suggests a lack of playmaking ability. Finally many of his goals were scored from within a few feet of the net.

All of these statistics culminate well into a story. He's a very big guy that can fend of defenseman in front of the net extremely well (especially CHL sized defenseman) and convert opportunities others make once he's there whether it be via deflection or rebound. I'm convinced that he's excellent at that. He's truly exceptional at it. Unfortunately the stats don't seem to suggest that he's good at anything else. I didn't watch him much so others that watched him more can contribute more to how he looks on the ice, but in my limited viewings I felt that the eye test supported that narrative.

This is all made much worse by our team's needs though. We have forwards with size and scoring ability. Besides Mantha none of our young forwards appear to have plus playmaking or IQ. We genuinely need that in our C prospects and instead we drafted a guy that doesn't appear to complement any of our faults. We went into the draft needing two top line D prospects, and a top 6 C (maybe two depending how Larkin handles the position going forward), and those are the most important positions for team building.. We didn't get any of those pieces with our highest pick in a long time. We finally missed the playoffs and finally had some chance to address needs that have been mounting for quite some time and we didn't. The excuse has been that you can't get skilled players outside the top 10. Well we were inside it and nothing appears to have changed. That's really depressing.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Well good news almost all of the scouts and scouting services had Rasmussen ranked above Necas. So maybe there is a strange backlash going on around here to just be angry.

A lot of fans cannot imagine a productive NHL center who is not a cerebral playmaker like Pav or Z. That is what people are familiar with and that isn't Ras' game. I too would have taken Necas, but will freely admit that he isn't exactly a slow-it-down, east-west distributor either.

We could certainly have taken some guys with more pure hockey skill than Ras, but I also think that the vast, vast majority of those guys will end up on the wing in the pro game. While the pick doesn't excite me, I can somewhat see the logic in it.

 

[SaginawFan]

The one thing Detroit needs is playmaking centers.

Rasmussen isn't that, and yet another left handed player.

If you voted for Rasmussen because of size, then you are missing the point.

I know Gilmour was a late pick and not a fan favorite because of his size, but watch him this season. He is a slick, smart center who makes players around him better. Detroit fans will soon realize you got a steal in the 7th round.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The one thing Detroit needs is playmaking centers.

Rasmussen isn't that, and yet another left handed player.

If you voted for Rasmussen because of size, then you are missing the point.

Wings need a lot more than just playmaking centers, and I'm not sure any of the guys taken right behind Rasmussen project as elite playmakers. Can't really hold it against Rasmussen that he's not some ideal perfect match for all the Wings needs. You can easily argue that one of our current team's biggest issues is lack of players that go to dirty areas and too many players that get pushed around. Rasmussen adresses that.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I have a problem with it. Hey I would have picked Necas ahead of him, but again Rasmussen was actually ahead of him in most draft rankings I saw. I guess it would be up to this author but there is a really good chance Necas is also four in these rankings so I don't know how much to get fired up about.

I have Rasmussen as our top prospect. But for me it is splitting hairs between Rasmussen, Hronek and Svechnikov. I don't have Vili in my top 5 so I disagree with his placement here pretty strongly.

I looked up their rankings, Necas was 5th on Carolina's list and Vilardi was 1 on LA's.

A lot of fans cannot imagine a productive NHL center who is not a cerebral playmaker like Pav or Z. That is what people are familiar with and that isn't Ras' game. I too would have taken Necas, but will freely admit that he isn't exactly a slow-it-down, east-west distributor either.

We could certainly have taken some guys with more pure hockey skill than Ras, but I also think that the vast, vast majority of those guys will end up on the wing in the pro game. While the pick doesn't excite me, I can somewhat see the logic in it.

That's a complete strawman, it has nothing to do with a lack of imagination or comparing him to Datsyuk or Zetterberg. The heavy criticism doesn't just come from fans; go the the Rasmussen thread on the main board, he's very maligned.

Wings need a lot more than just playmaking centers, and I'm not sure any of the guys taken right behind Rasmussen project as elite playmakers. Can't really hold it against Rasmussen that he's not some ideal perfect match for all the Wings needs. You can easily argue that one of our current team's biggest issues is lack of players that go to dirty areas and too many players that get pushed around. Rasmussen adresses that.

We need good hockey players more than anything. That is what we need most of all, especially from the 9th overall pick. "Tough to play against" isn't going to make us anything more than the Brian Burke-era Maple Leafs.

 

[SaginawFan]

Brady Gilmour

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/08/red_wings_prospect_brady_gilmo.html

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

You can be as tough as you want, but if your idea of offense is hacking and whacking at the top of the crease or shooting for deflections, you're not going to score many goals. Goals are scored by speed and skill these days. The Wings may have the former, but definitely not the latter.

Losing Datsyuk created a vacuum that needs to be filled, and losing Zetterberg is going to create an even bigger one. The Wings have no answers to that, just like they had no answer to Lidstrom retiring. And I understand it's hard, but they're not even trying. They're not using their high picks on playmaking centers. They haven't planned for the future at all. Maybe this is Holland's double-secret tank: just don't draft the players to succeed, and then there's no argument that the team will need to rebuild.

 

[Martinez]

You can be as tough as you want, but if your idea of offense is hacking and whacking at the top of the crease or shooting for deflections, you're not going to score many goals. Goals are scored by speed and skill these days. The Wings may have the former, but definitely not the latter.

Losing Datsyuk created a vacuum that needs to be filled, and losing Zetterberg is going to create an even bigger one. The Wings have no answers to that, just like they had no answer to Lidstrom retiring. And I understand it's hard, but they're not even trying. They're not using their high picks on playmaking centers. They haven't planned for the future at all. Maybe this is Holland's double-secret tank: just don't draft the players to succeed, and then there's no argument that the team will need to rebuild.

Helmer and Abby are the next z and pav

 

[Pavels Dog]

You can be as tough as you want, but if your idea of offense is hacking and whacking at the top of the crease or shooting for deflections, you're not going to score many goals. Goals are scored by speed and skill these days. The Wings may have the former, but definitely not the latter.

Losing Datsyuk created a vacuum that needs to be filled, and losing Zetterberg is going to create an even bigger one. The Wings have no answers to that, just like they had no answer to Lidstrom retiring. And I understand it's hard, but they're not even trying. They're not using their high picks on playmaking centers. They haven't planned for the future at all. Maybe this is Holland's double-secret tank: just don't draft the players to succeed, and then there's no argument that the team will need to rebuild.

Eh, nearly 20% of all goals are scored by deflections and tip-ins. Over 50% are scored close to the net in areas where Rasmussen seems to do most of his work. That's disregarding the fact he was just drafted and enormous amounts of development could still be ahead for him, changing his outlook as a player completely.

We need playmakers, but there's no law that your center has to be a Datsyuk in order for the team to be succesful. Chicago has never had a center anywhere near the playmaking capabilities of a Datsyuk. The best playmaking centers of the last 1-2 decades (after Crosby) are Thornton, Backstrom and Sedin, none have a cup.

Good teams are built with talent. I don't think it necessarily has to fit some perfect mold, nor should we expect one draft to solve all our questions. Definitely not the '17 draft. Not even Patrick and Hischier really project as elite playmaking Cs from what I can tell. I'll cry about a bad draft pick if Vilardi or Necas turn into monster playmakers and Rasmussen only hacks and whacks his way to 30-point seasons, but that's still not set in stone.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I looked up their rankings, Necas was 5th on Carolina's list and Vilardi was 1 on LA's.

Where did you find this stuff?

Just curious, is this like when Brian Burke has drafted the top player on his board for his entire career kind of comments.

What if the Wings told you they had Rasmussen at 4 on their board and Necas at 5th...

The point was in a lot of ranking Rasmussen was in front of Necas.

On Valardi hopefully at some point Draper or Fischer speaks out of turn but my assumption is the Wings have zero faith in him playing center at the NHL level which would explain why they weren't interested in him or Tippett.

 

[Frk It]

Well good news almost all of the scouts and scouting services had Rasmussen ranked above Necas. So maybe there is a strange backlash going on around here to just be angry.

I think Necas would come in about the same place with these rankings done by 3rd parties. I think Vilardi (justifiably) would come in higher, cause if you want to push rankings, he was ranked higher than those two literally everywhere. Actually a few places (Button, Pronman, Hockeyprospect.com) had Necas higher than Ras, just so you're aware.

Rasmussen was earmarked as the guy to be cautionary of out of the top ranked guys for months, the discussion was there for months on the prospect board and other places. So it's not just Red Wings fans yelling at the sky. At least one big guy with size gets overvalued in every draft. It's a legit thing to be worried about.

I think he is capable of doing more than parking in front of the net and scoring trash goals. I think he will have a nice +1 season and put up good numbers. But I do understand that people want to see him prove it, and I do think he has a fair amount to prove as far as the ES production and proving there is more/enough skill to go along with the size and the scoring.

 

[ricky0034]

Where did you find this stuff?

Just curious, is this like when Brian Burke has drafted the top player on his board for his entire career kind of comments.

What if the Wings told you they had Rasmussen at 4 on their board and Necas at 5th...

The point was in a lot of ranking Rasmussen was in front of Necas.

On Valardi hopefully at some point Draper or Fischer speaks out of turn but my assumption is the Wings have zero faith in him playing center at the NHL level which would explain why they weren't interested in him or Tippett.

pretty sure they were just talking about the NHL app's rankings for those teams prospect pools not teams draft boards or whatever

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Where did you find this stuff?

Just curious, is this like when Brian Burke has drafted the top player on his board for his entire career kind of comments.

What if the Wings told you they had Rasmussen at 4 on their board and Necas at 5th...

The point was in a lot of ranking Rasmussen was in front of Necas.

On Valardi hopefully at some point Draper or Fischer speaks out of turn but my assumption is the Wings have zero faith in him playing center at the NHL level which would explain why they weren't interested in him or Tippett.

Yeah, I was speaking in reference to the NHL app's rankings of the organization's prospects.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I think he is capable of doing more than parking in front of the net and scoring trash goals. I think he will have a nice +1 season and put up good numbers. But I do understand that people want to see him prove it, and I do think he has a fair amount to prove as far as the ES production and proving there is more/enough skill to go along with the size and the scoring.

Yeah I think this is a fair assessment, just think there should be a period of "wait and see" for pretty much any prospect. His +1 year can either confirm a lot of fears or prove a lot of people wrong.