Confirmed with Link: Derrick Pouliot's here because reasons. Part 1. (#859)

[Melvin]

If we go by depth chart, Pouliot's probably fighting for ice-time with Biega and Gudbransson when the defense is totally healthy. The top five roles are set: Tanev, Edler, Hutton, Stetcher, and Del Zotto won't come out of the lineup for Pouliot.

Green's been switching Pouliot's partner over the past few games, trying to see if he can move up the lineup and whether he can play the right side. Experimenting with his role, seeing if Pouliot can do more. So far, Pouliot's been solid, but hardly spectacular; he hasn't done anything to replace any of the players who already have their roles set. He can beat out Biega and Gudbransson, but that's hardly a given.

In terms of asset management, trading for Pouliot was premature. The Canucks should've gambled getting him on waivers. Perhaps they lose out with another team claiming him before they can, but it's a far more acceptable risk than trading for him, and then possibly losing Biega (or him) on waivers when the defense is finally fully healthy.

Young drew doughty is now available on waivers very often.

 

[Bad Goalie]

If we go by depth chart, Pouliot's probably fighting for ice-time with Biega and Gudbransson when the defense is totally healthy. The top five roles are set: Tanev, Edler, Hutton, Stetcher, and Del Zotto won't come out of the lineup for Pouliot.

Green's been switching Pouliot's partner over the past few games, trying to see if he can move up the lineup and whether he can play the right side. Experimenting with his role, seeing if Pouliot can do more. So far, Pouliot's been solid, but hardly spectacular; he hasn't done anything to replace any of the players who already have their roles set. He can beat out Biega and Gudbransson, but that's hardly a given.

In terms of asset management, trading for Pouliot was premature. The Canucks should've gambled getting him on waivers. Perhaps they lose out with another team claiming him before they can, but it's a far more acceptable risk than trading for him, and then possibly losing Biega (or him) on waivers when the defense is finally fully healthy.

If they keep 8, no problem. Wiercioch is once again the odd man out.
If they keep 7 as they did before he was acquired, then Wiercioch is still gone and now you have the Biega/Pouliot decision.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

If we go by depth chart, Pouliot's probably fighting for ice-time with Biega and Gudbransson when the defense is totally healthy. The top five roles are set: Tanev, Edler, Hutton, Stetcher, and Del Zotto won't come out of the lineup for Pouliot.

Green's been switching Pouliot's partner over the past few games, trying to see if he can move up the lineup and whether he can play the right side. Experimenting with his role, seeing if Pouliot can do more. So far, Pouliot's been solid, but hardly spectacular; he hasn't done anything to replace any of the players who already have their roles set. He can beat out Biega and Gudbransson, but that's hardly a given.

In terms of asset management, trading for Pouliot was premature. The Canucks should've gambled getting him on waivers. Perhaps they lose out with another team claiming him before they can, but it's a far more acceptable risk than trading for him, and then possibly losing Biega (or him) on waivers when the defense is finally fully healthy.

Why would Hutton and Stecher be so far ahead of Pouliot. They are the same age. Neither Hutton nor Stecher are perfect as defenseman. Gudbranson is likely a cut above because of asset management. Biega is behind everyone. If the Canucks like Pouliot you have to trade for him. Especially with the cost. They thought he was an upgrade and so far he has been. He plays both sides. Has seen no time on pk but neither has Stecher. If he could show a bit more on the pp I think his spot would be secure. He has been good but mainly his play has been improving while our other d are struggling. Really MDZ Edler Gudbranson and Tanev are playing if healthy my next picks would depend special team matches and pair ups. If Hutton Stecher and Pouliot all perform than trading a dman or 2 would more likely.

 

[Melvin]

Please Google sunk cost fallacy re:gudbranson

Pouliot deserves to play over guddy at this point.

 

[LeftCoast]

Please Google sunk cost fallacy re:gudbranson

Pouliot deserves to play over guddy at this point.

At this point, it's not an issue until both Stecher and Tanev are healthy, and by that time - who knows?

Wiercioch get waived first, then Biega. Then it's a question of who sits. The only reason to play Gudbransson would be to preserve his trade value.

 

[bossram]

At this point, it's not an issue until both Stecher and Tanev are healthy, and by that time - who knows?

Wiercioch get waived first, then Biega. Then it's a question of who sits. The only reason to play Gudbransson would be to preserve his trade value.

Then we should just trade him as soon as possible.

Seriously, the more people watch him play, you gotta think GMs will start to catch on eventually.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

post removed by author

 

[shottasasa]

Why is there this assumption he would have hit waivers instead of another team trading for him? Perhaps we just outbid another team who offered a 4th round pick but Rutherford took our offer as he figured ours would be higher.

Faulty foundations for an argument.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

I agree, but I think it's probably too late. He was in all probability about to hit waivers if Benning had not intervened and offered a pick. And like you say, continued exposure isn't likely to up the price, which was a modest fourth round pick, at least in the view of Benning. Quite the contrary I'd say.

He was saying trade Gudbranson. Are you saying trade Pouliot? and that now he is worth less than a 4th? I think Pouliot is likely hitting managements expectations I would not expect them to trade him. At worst he is a low cost 7th dman at best he can progress into a top 4 dman.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Please Google sunk cost fallacy re:gudbranson

Pouliot deserves to play over guddy at this point.

Gudbranson has trade value I do not think you sit him before you trade him. At this point better to sit controllable assets.

 

[racerjoe]

Why is there this assumption he would have hit waivers instead of another team trading for him? Perhaps we just outbid another team who offered a 4th round pick but Rutherford took our offer as he figured ours would be higher.

Faulty foundations for an argument.

No the argument is you are better to hope he hits waivers then to pay an asset for him. There is a very good chance he makes it there.

 

[NoShowWilly]

There will be a market for gudbranson, no doubt in my mind. Big physically imposing 'shutdown' RH defenseman.

A D+2 1st round pick that spent the season in the nhl, a top 35 pick, and another top 100 pick? Dare to dream but not likely.

 

[shottasasa]

No the argument is you are better to hope he hits waivers then to pay an asset for him. There is a very good chance he makes it there.

We really don't know if there was a good chance at all. If you just wait for the waiver wire, you miss out on players who won't make it there because the market determined they were worth a mid-to-lower round pick. I would be interested to know if/what other teams offered for Pouliot, but it's unlikely that information comes out.

In any case, I'm more optimistic about him turning out to be worth it now than I was when the trade was made.

 

[Melvin]

We really don't know if there was a good chance at all. If you just wait for the waiver wire, you miss out on players who won't make it there because the market determined they were worth a mid-to-lower round pick. I would be interested to know if/what other teams offered for Pouliot, but it's unlikely that information comes out.

In any case, I'm more optimistic about him turning out to be worth it now than I was when the trade was made.

Yes but it literally doesn't matter. He is the definition of a fungible asset. If you are interested you wait and see if he hits the waiver wire and try to grab him. If he doesn't, or you kiss out, it's not a big deal. Next week a similar value player will be available.

 

[docbenton]

Yes but it literally doesn't matter. He is the definition of a fungible asset. If you are interested you wait and see if he hits the waiver wire and try to grab him. If he doesn't, or you kiss out, it's not a big deal. Next week a similar value player will be available.

Why do people keep making this point when there was clearly a fundamental disagreement about the value of the player?

 

[Melvin]

Why do people keep making this point when there was clearly a fundamental disagreement about the value of the player?

Because people keep refusing to acknowledge this point, by saying dumb things like "there was no guarantee he'd make it to waivers."

As long as people keep saying that, they will get the same counter-point, even if neither point addresses the core issue alluded to by your post.

 

[MS]

This same 'There was no guarantee he'd be available/they'd make the deal unless we threw these extra assets at it!' excuse has been used for about a dozen different Jim Benning transactions.

If it was a one-off, sure ... whatever. But the larger pattern is the problem. You actually 'win' trades and get value for assets by being patient and knowing when you have leverage, and exploiting that leverage. Jim Benning is chronically unable to do this, and this is why this organization is continually bleeding draft picks and assets.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Because people keep refusing to acknowledge this point, by saying dumb things like "there was no guarantee he'd make it to waivers."

As long as people keep saying that, they will get the same counter-point, even if neither point addresses the core issue alluded to by your post.

Poster has good POV. There is disagreement at what Pouliot is worth. Posters who think he was worth nothing say should have waited for waivers. Others who like his play say correctly waivers were not guarantted. Posters who do not like him should just say he is not worth any assets to them and stop with the asset management run around. You think he is worth nothing just state it and be done. Or state it and why you think he is worth nothing. Like Ryp 37 who says he has muffin for shot and cannot skate. I do not agree but fair enough. People still believe Sven B. and Grandlund would have been available on waivers. Even if true they would still have been worth trading for. If you believe in player enough that you want to be sure to get him trading for him is the way to get him.

 

[Melvin]

Poster has good POV. There is disagreement at what Pouliot is worth. Posters who think he was worth nothing say should have waited for waivers. Others who like his play say correctly waivers were not guarantted. Posters who do not like him should just say he is not worth any assets to them and stop with the asset management run around. You think he is worth nothing just state it and be done. Or state it and why you think he is worth nothing. Like Ryp 37 who says he has muffin for shot and cannot skate. I do not agree but fair enough. People still believe Sven B. and Grandlund would have been available on waivers. Even if true they would still have been worth trading for. If you believe in player enough that you want to be sure to get him trading for him is the way to get him.

If we could trade baertschi and granlund for a 2nd and a waiver exempt prospect I would do it in a heartbeat.

Both were likely to be on waivers at some point and neither present a strong argument in favour of wasting assets on such players. Same with etem, pedan, and all the other Jim benning fetishees.

 

[hooverdam]

I liked this read on him: Derrick Pouliot has been the most pleasant surprise of the Canucks season

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

He was saying trade Gudbranson. Are you saying trade Pouliot? and that now he is worth less than a 4th? I think Pouliot is likely hitting managements expectations I would not expect them to trade him. At worst he is a low cost 7th dman at best he can progress into a top 4 dman.

Quite right. I quoted the wrong post. Sorry for wasting your time.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Quite right. I quoted the wrong post. Sorry for wasting your time.

No worries I am here to waste my time.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

I liked this read on him: Derrick Pouliot has been the most pleasant surprise of the Canucks season

Like this article as it matches my opinion of him and how well he has been playing. Though he is not at the level of hype I felt for Tryamkin. They are about the same age. Maybe good partners one to take players off puck the other to pass puck up. Plan for 2019-20 as we pay Tryamkin enough to buy out last year of Khl contract.

 

[VanJack]

I liked this read on him: Derrick Pouliot has been the most pleasant surprise of the Canucks season

Have to concur with this.....after the first 20 games, can't think of another Canuck player with such low expectations coming in, who's delivered more......if he can keep it up, it's like 'found money' for the Canucks......looks like the guy can play either side as a d-man, which makes him even more valuable....most pleasant surprise so far.

 

[Cupless44]

When the defence is healthy, Pouliot should be playing over Gudbranson. If that means you trade Gudbranson early, so be it. At some point ice time has to be decided by merit, not by contract or veteran coddling.